Actual Freedom – The Actual Freedom Mailing List Correspondence

March 09 2006

RESPONDENT: Hello, I was given this link by someone I know and this is my first post.

RICHARD: Welcome to The Actual Freedom Trust mailing list ... as you have entitled this first post of yours [quote] ‘Transformation’ [endquote] what was the reason someone you know gave you this link?

And why I ask is because actualism, as contrasted to spiritualism, is all about the extinction of ‘self’ (by whatever name) and not the transformation of same.

RESPONDENT: I have been reading your webpage and correspondence which is a lot to read.

RICHARD: The simplest way to comprehend it all is that, just as the ego-self (aka ‘the thinker’) has to die, for spiritual enlightenment/ mystical awakenment (aka transformation) to occur, so too does the spirit-self (aka ‘the feeler’) in order for the flesh and blood body to be actually free from the human condition.

Put succinctly: an enlightened/ awakened/ transformed identity is still an identity, nevertheless.

RESPONDENT: I also have a link to share with you and perhaps you will find it of some interest: www.selftransformation.org/purpose.html.

RICHARD: The following words, from the second paragraph on that page, speak for themselves:

• [quote] ‘Transformation is the birth of a new human being, and it begins with speaking the truth about self to yourself. This will open the door to yourself, and when this transformational event happens in the individual, the old and trained conditioned self can die, and a new self can be born’. [endquote].

As do these (from www.selftransformation.org/story/9.html):

• [quote] ‘Since that day November 19, 1979, and as I write these words, I have been living what could be called an in-the-body life, a life of living each second and watching every movement and emotion as they happen’. [endquote].

RESPONDENT: Free from all beliefs.

RICHARD: On the contrary ... here is the mother of all beliefs (also from that second paragraph on the page you provided a link to):

• [quote] ‘Transformation of self will birth a new consciousness on earth, and it is this consciousness that will ultimately save us from ourselves’. [endquote].

March 21 2006

RESPONDENT: Hello, I was given this link by someone I know and this is my first post.

RICHARD: Welcome to The Actual Freedom Trust mailing list ... as you have entitled this first post of yours [quote] ‘Transformation’ [endquote] what was the reason someone you know gave you this link?

RESPONDENT: Thank you for the welcome Richard. The reason I was given this link by someone was because of my interest in ‘freedom’. I’m guessing as I don’t really know what went on in the head of the person who gave it to me.

RICHARD: Okay ... so both the entitling of this e-mail and the referral to a web page with [quote] ‘selftransformation’ [endquote] as its domain name – as contrasted to ‘selfimmolation’ for example – was entirely of your initiation and not at all influenced by someone you know who gave you the link to The Actual Freedom Trust web site.

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RICHARD: And why I ask is because actualism, as contrasted to spiritualism, is all about the extinction of ‘self’ (by whatever name) and not the transformation of same.

RESPONDENT: I have absolutely no idea what spiritualism, spirituality, spirit etc. is.

RICHARD: I am only too happy to rephrase my sentence so as to take your ignorance into account: why I ask is because actualism is all about the extinction of ‘self’ (by whatever name) and not the transformation of same.

RESPONDENT: These are overburdened words that appear to mean something different to everyone who uses them; and as such seem pretty useless to me.

RICHARD: I am only too happy to rephrase my sentence so as to exclude the word which seems pretty useless to you: why I ask is because actualism is all about the extinction of ‘self’ (by whatever name) and not the transformation of same.

RESPONDENT: I’m looking at the word transformation as well.

RICHARD: I am only too happy to rephrase my sentence so as to obviate you having to look at the word transformation: why I ask is because actualism is all about the extinction of ‘self’ (by whatever name) and not the metamorphosis/ transfiguration/ transmutation/ transmogrification of same.

RESPONDENT: Perhaps I’m using it to speak of the transition from a state of bondage to the ‘self’ into a state of freedom from this bondage.

RICHARD: I am only too happy to rephrase my entire sentence so as to take your unsurety into account: why I ask is because to be actually free from ‘self’ (by whatever name), as contrasted to a state of freedom from a state of bondage to the ‘self’, is all about the extinction of ‘self’ (by whatever name) and not about disidentification (aka detachment/ dissociation/ disconnection) from the ‘self’.

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RESPONDENT: I have been reading your webpage and correspondence which is a lot to read.

RICHARD: The simplest way to comprehend it all is that, just as the ego-self (aka ‘the thinker’) has to die, for spiritual enlightenment/ mystical awakenment (aka transformation) to occur, so too does the spirit-self (aka ‘the feeler’) in order for the flesh and blood body to be actually free from the human condition. Put succinctly: an enlightened/ awakened/ transformed identity is still an identity, nevertheless.

RESPONDENT: Yes. When there is identification then there is identity.

RICHARD: For the sake of clarity in communication I will rephrase that succinctness: an enlightened/ awakened/ transformed self is still a self, nevertheless.

RESPONDENT: I’m looking at what you call the ‘human condition’ and what is condition but a set of beliefs and conditioned responses to events either external or internal?

RICHARD: The term ‘human condition’ refers to the situation which all human beings find themselves in when they emerge here as babies. The term refers to the contrary and perverse nature of all peoples of all races and all cultures. There is ‘good’ and ‘bad’ in everyone ... all humans have a ‘dark side’ to their nature and a ‘light side’. The battle betwixt ‘Good and Evil’ has raged down through the centuries and it requires constant vigilance lest evil gets the upper hand. Morals and ethics seek to control the wayward self that lurks deep within the human breast ... and some semblance of what is called ‘peace’ prevails for the main. Where morality and ethicality fails to curb the ‘savage beast’, law and order is maintained ... at the point of a gun.

The ending of malice and sorrow, and their antidotal pacifiers love and compassion, involves getting one’s head out of the clouds – and beyond – and coming down-to-earth where the flesh and blood bodies called human beings actually live. Obviously, the solution to all the ills of humankind can only be found here in space and now in time as this physical body. Then the question is: is it possible to be free of the human condition, here on earth, in this life-time, as a flesh and blood body? Which means: how on earth can one live happily and harmlessly in the world as-it-is with people as-they-are whilst one nurses malice and sorrow, and their antidotal pacifiers love and compassion, in one’s bosom.

RESPONDENT: The difficulty in discussing this seems to be that people develop a precise language to describe the event that happens when the ‘self’ dies.

RICHARD: If it be imprecision you want you are at the wrong address ... clarity in communication is my forté.

RESPONDENT: Years ago, when I was ‘trying’ to be free, I used the vocabulary of the Gurdjieff Fourth Way and a few other methods I looked into.

RICHARD: Obviously I cannot comment on those (unnamed) other methods but Mr. George Gurdjieff’s fourth way is a unification of three traditional ways which primarily utilise only one of what he describes as three brains or centres (the instinctive or moving centre, the emotional or feeling centre, and the intellectual or thinking centre) ... to wit: the way of the fakir (through chastisement of the body), the way of the yogi (through mental discipline) and the way of the monk (through prayer and belief).

He also is only concerned about ego-death/ re-birth. Viz.:

• [quote] ‘... all religions speak about death during this life on earth. Death must come before rebirth. But what must die? False confidence in one’s own knowledge, self-love and egoism. Our egoism must be broken. We must realize that we are very complicated machines, and so this process of breaking is bound to be a long and difficult task. Before real growth becomes possible, our personality must die’ . (page 86; ‘Views From The Real World’; ©1973 by Triangle Editions, Inc.).

RESPONDENT: I have had the experience of feeling as if I were nothing; where the ‘self’ was there, but I wasn’t it. What I ‘was’ I don’t know, just an observational point. I do not know if this is what you are speaking about ...

RICHARD: I am not speaking of feeling as if being nothing/of not being the extant ‘self’ ... I am speaking of being this flesh and blood body only (sans the entire affective faculty/ identity in toto).

RESPONDENT: ... but I was free from the self I had known up to that point. Is this a stable experience? No. I seem to shift back and forth, if that makes any sense.

RICHARD: The very nature of disidentification (aka detachment/ dissociation/ disconnection) does lend itself to instability.

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RESPONDENT: I also have a link to share with you and perhaps you will find it of some interest: www.selftransformation.org/purpose.html.

RICHARD: The following words, from the second paragraph on that page, speak for themselves: [quote] ‘Transformation is the birth of a new human being, and it begins with speaking the truth about self to yourself. This will open the door to yourself, and when this transformational event happens in the individual, the old and trained conditioned self can die, and a new self can be born’. [endquote].

RESPONDENT: I don’t know what you are illustrating with this quote.

RICHARD: Perhaps if I were to highlight the operative words this time around? Viz.:

• [quote] ‘Transformation is the birth of a new human being, and it begins with speaking the truth about self to yourself. This will open the door to yourself, and when this transformational event happens in the individual, the old and trained conditioned self can die, and *a new self* can be born’. [emphasis added].

Put succinctly: a new self is still a self, nevertheless.

RESPONDENT: This seems a great method of discovering the delusions of self.

RICHARD: As a new self is still a self then, as a method of discovering the delusions of same, any greatness is sorely lacking.

RESPONDENT: For instance, when I speak aloud one of my beliefs it loosens the bond because the sheer lunacy of the belief is made evident.

RICHARD: In which case ... try this on for size and see how it fits:

• [example only]: ‘Speaking the truth about self to yourself, so as to open the door to yourself/to bring about a transformational event (inasmuch a new self can be born), seems a great method of discovering the delusions of self’. [end example].

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RICHARD: As do these (from www.selftransformation.org/story/9.html): [quote] ‘Since that day November 19, 1979, and as I write these words, I have been living what could be called an in-the-body life, a life of living each second and watching every movement and emotion as they happen’. [endquote].

RESPONDENT: I don’t believe this quote and I don’t believe I’m free from all beliefs either. :)

RICHARD: I am not asking you to believe that quote ... perhaps a recent example (Wednesday, February 15, 2006) will make it more clear:

• [quote]: ‘The leaving of self happens when the self sees the failure of its image, then the self dies and the self is born outside of time/ image. Do you see?
• [Co-Respondent]: ‘A lot of people who have studied Krishnamurti seem to think there is actually no ‘self’ or that the ‘self’ itself is of time and, therefore, ‘undesirable’. However, what I see you saying is that in time there is only image of a self and not our real self and outside of time there is our real self. In other words, ‘dead’ and ‘alive’.
• [quote]: ‘Yes the image ‘self’ needs to die, so the self not of thought can born itself’. (www.mail-archive.com/listening-l@zrz.tu-berlin.de/msg57474.html).

*

RESPONDENT: Free from all beliefs.

RICHARD: On the contrary ... here is the mother of all beliefs (also from that second paragraph on the page you provided a link to): [quote] ‘Transformation of self will birth a new consciousness on earth, and it is this consciousness that will ultimately save us from ourselves’. [endquote].

RESPONDENT: I haven’t anything to say about this, because I don’t know.

RICHARD: Here is a question to ponder: in what way will transformation of self, inasmuch it will birth a new consciousness (aka a new self/a timeless self/a thoughtless self) which watches every emotion (specifically grief, pain, anger, jealousy, and misery) as they happen, ultimately save 6.0 billion selves from themselves?

RESPONDENT: It seems highly speculative so I don’t believe it.

RICHARD: Just what is it, then, on that page you provided a link to, which you found to be of [quote] ‘some interest’ [endquote]? Viz.:

• [Respondent]: ‘I was given this link by someone I know (...) I also have a link to share with you and perhaps you will find it of some interest: www.selftransformation.org/purpose.html’. [endquote].