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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Chrono on Discuss Actualism Forum
CHRONO: So I ended up reading this correspondence [re psychic web VINEETO: Hi Chrono, I am pleased to hear you were able to not only become aware of physic vibes but also to notice how most of the vibes are about “a “battle” or undercurrent in what they are saying versus what they are being”. And, as you say, the same battle is happing inside yourself. Particularly in a partnership it is easy to fall into a pattern of having to be ‘right’ rather than being sensible and interested in harmony and intimacy. CHRONO: At work I was speaking with someone casually (while I was feeling good) and noticed intuitively how I had an automatic “tuning in” to the other person. How I was being pulled to them in a way and I instinctually pulled back. Which instinctive tug-of-war is apparent now in every interaction. Just yesterday I also saw actively while speaking with my partner how it was ‘me’ that was in the way when I was offering my thoughts to her. The moment I dropped below feeling good while speaking with her, I noted what it was. And in every instance it was my expectation or desire of how I wanted her to receive my thoughts. And that seeing was enough for me to get back to feeling good. It didn’t matter how she received it as long as I was really feeling happy and harmless. And it’s strange as I write that as it seems like I’m being accused of being uncaring. But I also note how completely different this is from the application of morality as even an action imbued with love is also an exertion of power. So much interaction is actually a subliminal power battle and it makes me wonder what exactly is the need for it. VINEETO: Well observed. When you say “how I wanted her to receive my thoughts” you would understand that she instinctually wants the same thing – so when you, for instance, stand back a while and allow her to express her thoughts and her feelings, there is a good chance she will want to understand yours. Your fear of “being uncaring” is responsible for needing to convince her that you are not uncaring (via having your thoughts received, rather than acting in a caring way such as listening attentively, for instance). * VINEETO: Well, you not only identify with the ‘many’ who suffer but you also describe/ imagine a compassionate ideal how society should be organized instead, for yourself and others. As each and everyone can only change one person, themselves, the only way you can actually do something beneficial is to change yourself and become free from the human condition for everyone’s benefit. As a suggestion – instead of only looking at the negative feelings of “resentment, indignation, obedience, etc” only, check out which ‘good’ feelings keep this resentment in place. There could be compassion, which you alleviate with virtuous high morals/ ethics, and/or the feeling of belonging to the ‘many’ who suffer. Perhaps you find some other ‘brownie points’ which presently keep you trapped. I am reminded of the brilliant way Richard parsed compassion in two of the Audio-taped Dialogues – (snipped). CHRONO: I’ve never looked at it in the way of seeing it as compassion before but it does make sense. VINEETO: Before you hone into compassion as one option, did you notice that looking at the ‘good’ feelings, you might be invested in, gives a whole new perspective to your negative feelings of “resentment, indignation, obedience”? There are always two sides to one’s persistent negative feelings and mostly one’s personal investment into the hedonically pleasant side of them is overlooked. CHRONO: There are times I do imagine being a “Saviour” and how if I could just end the suffering of others I would. All the while in the back of my head, I know it to be very insincere as I would at root be the same as everyone else. Reading that audio-taped dialogue, what I realized is how any action taken by being the love or compassion is ultimately bound to fail (in effecting peace and harmony). I can see how this fits in with the psychic web as well. I am reminded of an instance where one of my friends had been sharing her emotional turmoil in regards her relationship. The entire time she was talking I was tuned into how she was feeling and as I was suggesting my advice to her, I was simultaneously and subliminally turning her ‘bad’ feeling into a ‘good’ feeling in myself and reflecting it back at her. But I found doing this kind of thing as rather exhausting. VINEETO: Yes, it sounds very exhausting what you were practicing, and in the long run it is ineffective because both sympathy and compassion literally means ‘suffering together’. Did you notice that both “being a ‘Saviour’” and releasing of the (imagined or real) charge of being uncaring are part of your actions? Empathetic caring is a different matter (empathy meaning ‘in-feeling’) –
By the way, Richard was accused many times of not caring CHRONO: And I can’t seem to find the correspondence so I may be off in my recall but I remember reading something Richard wrote where how the help or caring being provided when one is compassionate or empathetic is the very compassion or empathy itself and not any actual help. That has stuck with me for some reason. VINEETO: There is a long correspondence with Srinath about compassion, empathy burn-out
and near-actual caring. You might also find this excerpt informative –
CHRONO: But back to identifying with the ‘many’ who
suffer. I tune into the suffering because I feel that by tuning in I could do something about it. But now I find that
the only action I can take is compassion and/or becoming a “Saviour” of some sort. Then also I must tune in
(which I note that the tuning in is also being the suffering) or otherwise I am accused of being selfish. I’ve
noted this before so I’m going in circles maybe. But seeing as how even the biggest action of Compassion (such as
that with Buddha) has not alleviated the suffering, what other action could there be aside from compassion? What is
it to be of an actual help? VINEETO: Now that you mentioned the “Saviour” twice, and having to avoid being accused of being selfish, uncaring, callous several times – isn’t it time to investigate the root of the problem – the worry about being selfish and uncaring – rather than activate compassion which you already know does nothing to alleviate the suffering? The traditional cure to being selfish is to put the other before oneself – in other words, only seeing the dichotomy of being ‘selfish’ and being compassionate/unselfish as a choice. Actualism is about becoming less ‘self’-centric (less ego-centric or soul-centric), with the implicit understanding that it is the ‘self’ which is the problem, both in its selfish or its unselfish expression. For instance –
And because this concern of yours is so persistent, there might be an additional sticking point – the issue of belonging, perhaps? I’ll stop here and answer the rest in a separate post.
VINEETO: … once you eliminate/ abandon the resentment of having to work, perhaps you
start enjoying what you do for earning a living, so that enjoying and appreciating being alive is not interrupted
every time you go to work. CHRONO: I must say I had to read this three times because I did not quite “get it” but I was able to apprehend something intuitively with the following two parts that stuck out to me:
VINEETO: This story is about an older feeling being giving practical advice to child how to deal with an unwanted workload, there is nothing more mysterious about it. However, a lot of adults keep dragging out unpleasant tasks instead of ‘getting to it’. Chrono: I will also comment that one of the reasons that I resent having to work is the unpleasantness of vibes. But previously I was “helpless” so now I do not have to be. VINEETO: This is an excellent discovery. Being aware of unpleasant vibes helps a lot not to be drawn in to the psychic battle and you keep on feeling good without having to respond in kind. When you inadvertently get drawn in, there is most like a ‘hook’ on your side and you can ferret out your own reason for any affective involvement. * VINEETO: Ah well, this comic-strip video is a very crude, and inaccurate, representation of what Richard is talking about. Richard is not talking about physical violence as presented in that video. He is referring to verbal affective (and psychic) insults, which are quite consequential in the real world to start a heavy brawl or a never-ending feud or the massive sexual molestation/ harassment (…) CHRONO: I was more likening Spongebob in that video to the figurative sponge that absorbs insults and the attacker as delivering the rudeness, insults, and slights with his punches. And further in the video, Spongebob goes about his day happily while the “punches” have no effect as he is a sponge and neither does he have to wringe it out. And in the final part, it was shown that his attacks fell flat (also found funny that this aggressor’s name was Flats). Although I am aware that it’s not saying the same thing as Richard. Or I could be off the mark even with that understanding. Either way it may be too much of a digression. VINEETO: It is unfortunate that it being a moving image and not just text, it had far more impact on you than such an improbably fantasy deserves. You better cast this image of how insults are absorbed out of your mind. Fact is that once you have the intent of not responding automatically to insults and slights, you actually root out the cause for feeling insulted from your own psyche, such as a certain self-image, pride, ideas what a man should do and similar concepts. CHRONO: But to come back to the topic, I do find it interesting that giving and taking offence relates directly to vibes and psychic currents. Now that I am casting more attention on this phenomenon, I am rather astonished at how much of a role it plays in the real world. Maybe respect and disrespect as it is talked about in the real world also relates to giving and taking offence. I liken this part to “keeping your hands in your pockets”:
VINEETO: Yes, it does relate. Both respect and disrespect, fear and authority is overwhelmingly established on the psychic level. As Richard says, that’s where the real power play takes place, especially via the stronger psychic currents which are instantaneously transmitted over long distances. But you can step out of this tug-of-war game altogether and keep your hands in your pocket, while eliminating the reason in you which may cause you to feel insulted. Then you will no longer be a target (most of the time). That is what I mean when I say one becomes more and more anonymous. CHRONO: My question now is, if as a ‘being’, I am always involuntarily transmitting and receiving vibes and psychic currents, how can I as a ‘being’ have this affective and psychic attacking/ defending fall flat? VINEETO: Simply by your intent to be happy and harmless and to keep feeling good. It’s a different value to the ‘battle’ of right and wrong, superior/ inferior others want to draw you into. In other words, you play a different game altogether. CHRONO: My current understanding is that the conceiving of being a sponge is maintaining the intent to be happy and harmless in every situation or circumstance. I would still experience those vibes and have a reaction accordingly, but I would neither repress or express them if they came up. To bring it back to more of an experiential understanding, I wrote earlier that how I was able to choose feeling good. This understanding came when I realized that there are no rules or anyone standing in my way in being happy and harmless and that it is my choice alone. I can feel good come what may and it is ‘me’ that is standing in the way. This section was very elucidating:
The part that I bolded sticks out to me the most and has been happening
more and more. VINEETO: You got it in one. It’s your experiential understanding you can “can feel good come what may and it is ‘me’ that is standing in the way”. Brilliant.
CHRONO: Although it was last week, I wanted to write this wonderful experience I had before I forget. I had just gone for a walk in the park and was driving back home when I noticed the sky spontaneously. The sky showed up almost as if I had never seen it before and I became aware of being alive on this planet. And I mean this planet that is happening right now that everyone is alive in. I became aware of how everything was being provided for already. This planet had set itself up in such a way that we are here alive and aware of it. There was a complete friendliness to being alive. It was all happening right now all at once. I became aware of the cars around me and it was a marvel in that it had all arranged itself in a way that people could get to where they need to go easily. The most stand out feature again of all this was that it was all happening on its own without ‘me’. It has always been like this. Then it occurred to me that I too am happening on my own. I am a part of this planet, this universe. Just as it’s all happening on its own. It is not coming from or going somewhere. And I became perplexed afterwards. ‘I’ am such a strange occurrence. Almost like someone that shouldn’t be there but am there. An entire reality ... somewhere else. What exactly sustains ‘me’? Then after two more days, I started thinking on this experience at work again. Everything is already here so there was no need to “rush” anywhere. I sometimes have a feeling of finishing things fast or trying to “speed up” time to do the things I didn’t want to do quickly. I started experiencing it again and it led to an effortless feeling good. I am almost inclined to say that it is the source and reason for all feeling felicitous and innocuous. It led to feeling this way for almost the entire day. Then yesterday as I was looking at a wallpaper of the “Hubble Deep Field” and was reflecting again on how all of this was also happening on its own. So many myriad galaxies forming and rearranging all on their own, I noticed another stand out feature of this experiencing being not of ‘me’. This infinitude was not for any one person but for every person that is alive. Everyone is swimming in this bounty already. My partner actually saw me during this experiencing and commented at how my expression was “most contented”. I am becoming more aware of underlying feelings that I am being that are not in alignment with what this experience shows. A common feeling that I notice now in many of the issues that I wrote about is the deep feeling of being trapped. So I instinctually and unwittingly have been chasing the ‘feeling of being free’. Which feeling of being free is always somewhere else and is being sustained by the feeling of being trapped. That is, there is a belief that freedom is somewhere and somewhen else. I’ve noticed this before when some form of feeling very good and some closeness starts to happen. I’ll start getting feelings of nostalgia and the closeness then is to be gotten somewhere else. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, What splendid descriptions of “experiencing being not of ‘me’”. You had plenty of leisure to look around, so to speak, and draw some valuable conclusions, especially the observation that you have been looking for the source of feeling good – “experiencing being not of ‘me’” – somewhere other than here on earth and now, in this very moment. And you also reported that when “some closeness starts to happen”, often a ‘good’ feeling, in this case “nostalgia” swoops in and diverts you from further exploring this “closeness”. It is exactly this fine-tuned attentiveness which allows you to detect such diversions sooner rather than later, before they gather solidity, and then get back to your original exploration. Lastly, when you say “sustained by the feeling of being trapped” you are probably aware that you are trapping yourself and ‘I’ am playing a trick on ‘me’ pretending the trapping is happening by someone else. * VINEETO: Given you raised the topic of “on the road to being insane and
abnormal” – I highly recommend Richard’s two Selected Correspondences on Sanity, Insanity
and the Third Alternative CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, I have been reading this correspondence and reflecting. It’s clear from the real-world perspective that anything other than sanity is insanity. But to remain sane is to leave things as they are. This being the case as nowhere and nowhen has there been genuine peace. The sane thing to do also seems to be to simply pay lip service to peace and harmony and leave it as an ideal to attain but never achieve. The insidious part of sanity is the denial of what being sane entails. What is dawning on me at the moment is that to evince peace and harmony would be to leave the felt “safety” of being sane (which is felt to be insanity) behind. But I am not entirely familiar with insanity as a way of being as in (bold emphasis added):
I think the closest I would say is being in love or when I took a psychedelic substance once. But I can see that insanity seems to be a difference in degree to sanity rather than kind. So perhaps just as “being in love” is sane so it is when it’s taken all the way to the extreme to enlightenment. But I do see how much sanity is the problem. VINEETO: It was similar for ‘Vineeto’ – to realise that being sane meant for ‘her’ accepting all the wars, murder, child abuse and general violence as being ‘normal’, i.e. sane, and therefore not safe at all. ‘She’ also had little experience of what insanity means – once a close friend had a longer lasting psychotic experience and it was quite terrifying for ‘her’. Throughout the whole time of actualism the fear of going inadvertently insane remained a prevalent threat, and ‘her’ out-from-control episode was testimony to that –
So both your assessments that “insanity seems to be a difference in degree to sanity rather than kind” and that “how much sanity is the problem” are to the point and will stand you in good stead when encountering any altered states of consciousness or atavistic fears regarding sanity and insanity such as you detailed below. * VINEETO: Well observed. When you say “how I wanted her to receive my thoughts” you would understand that she instinctually wants the same thing – so when you, for instance, stand back a while and allow her to express her thoughts and her feelings, there is a good chance she will want to understand yours. Your fear of “being uncaring” is responsible for needing to convince her that you are not uncaring (via having your thoughts received, rather than acting in a caring way such as listening attentively, for instance). CHRONO: Ah actually your pointing this out helped me to notice it. My fear of being uncaring is what causes a lot of the suffering for me. What I realize now as I am typing this is that underlying the thought of abandoning compassion is the feeling that I will go insane. As in become a sociopath. But I am now swinging to the opposite. So what would it mean to abandon both? I cannot imagine it. VINEETO: You have no need to “imagine it” – from the experience you described when “not being ‘me’” there were no concerns of being a “sociopath”, were there? As such you know as an experiential fact that minimising both ‘good’ and bad feelings, i.e. minimising ‘me’, is outside the range of sane and insane, it is being salubrious. This fact answers your question directly – “to abandon both” you become more and more salubrious. (…) CHRONO: I did connect the dots after you pointed it out. The good feelings of “being a Saviour” are created to counter the bad feelings of “the charge of being uncaring”. VINEETO: Empathetic caring is a different matter (empathy meaning ‘in-feeling’) –
By the way, Richard was accused many times of not caring CHRONO: To some extent, I had been lumping all feeling caring such as sympathetic caring, compassionate caring, empathetic caring, etc as the same thing, but it makes sense to note the differences and seeing how empathetic caring plays a part until the end. VINEETO: For a feeling being all caring is accompanied by feelings, so a useful discernment would be to be less guided by what others expect you to do, or you yourself feel obligated to do, according to traditional beliefs and concepts, but instead be harmless, considerate and benevolent. CHRONO: Also interesting seeing that correspondence of people accusing Richard of not being caring when everything he’s done has been an actual caring in action. What it highlights for me is how actual caring is not guided by what others feel. In contrast to feeling caring, which seems to be all about affirming and endorsing ‘me’ (self-centred). Which further highlights that there’s really only one action that ‘I’ can do which would be the closest to actual caring. VINEETO: Well said. * VINEETO: Now that you mentioned the “Saviour” twice, and having to avoid being accused of being selfish, uncaring, callous several times – isn’t it time to investigate the root of the problem – the worry about being selfish and uncaring – rather than activate compassion which you already know does nothing to alleviate the suffering? The traditional cure to being selfish is to put the other before oneself – in other words, only seeing the
dichotomy of being ‘selfish’ and being compassionate/unselfish as a choice. Actualism is about becoming less ‘self’-centric
(less ego-centric or soul-centric), with the implicit understanding that it is the ‘self’ which is the problem,
both in its selfish or its unselfish expression. For instance – (snip quote
And because this concern of yours is so persistent, there might be an additional sticking point – the issue of belonging, perhaps? CHRONO: I can see that if I look at the root of the problem – worry about being selfish and uncaring – then the underlying feelings are I will go insane and simultaneously lose all connection to Humanity. And the thought goes something like, “if I lose the connection to Humanity, then how can I care for them (while also receiving the reward of good feelings for that caring)?”. I am reminded of something my dad often said to me if I were to talk of these types of matters with him. It goes something like, ‘oh you think you know better than the billions of people that are alive right now?’. Which lesson I presume he wanted to impress on me was to humble myself. And which lesson seems to have worked because in being humbled, I am staying in line and being obedient. As opposed to going out of line and lashing out in some way. VINEETO: This underlying atavistic fear of “I will go insane and simultaneously lose all connection to Humanity” is universal, only varying in strength and expression. Those cast out from the tribe could not survive on their own. I remember ‘Vineeto’ once had strong fears of being condemned/ burnt as a witch if anyone found out what a traitor to the human condition ‘she’ was.
Such feelings are all part and parcel of being a pioneer. However, for actualism to work you don’t have to openly rebel, or act inappropriately – you progressively cease believing in the various rules and concepts whilst paying lip service, when necessary, with the sincere intent to be more felicitous and innocuous. It’s only when there is still a belief, or doubt, on a particular subject, that the person feels compelled to publicly act out either the belief or demonstratively act out the opposite. * VINEETO: It is unfortunate that it being a moving image and not just text, it had far more impact on you than such an improbably fantasy deserves. You better cast this image of how insults are absorbed out of your mind. Fact is that once you have the intent of not responding automatically to insults and slights, you actually root out the cause for feeling insulted from your own psyche, such as a certain self-image, pride, ideas what a man should do and similar concepts. CHRONO: Your comment made me think about how much imagination plays a part in sustaining ‘me’. Imagining and ‘me’ seem to go hand in hand. It seems to be the very substance of ‘me’. VINEETO: Yes, when you observe your feelings closely you will see that a lot of the feeling-created scenario in your mind is interwoven with imagined thoughts or action, and the more emotional you feel, the wilder the imagination progresses. They belong together –
* CHRONO: My question now is, if as a ‘being’, I am always involuntarily transmitting and receiving vibes and psychic currents, how can I as a ‘being’ have this affective and psychic attacking/ defending fall flat? VINEETO: Simply by your intent to be happy and harmless and to keep feeling good. It’s a different value to the ‘battle’ of right and wrong, superior/ inferior others want to draw you into. In other words, you play a different game altogether. CHRONO: Yes I am noticing that it is an entirely different
value. Completely different from ‘me’. I cannot keep one part of ‘me’ while trying to eliminate the other
part. It’s the entirety of ‘me’. All of ‘reality’ VINEETO: Specifically, you cannot keep the ‘good’ feelings, or what you value highly, such as pride, honour, virtue, belonging, whilst discarding the bad feelings. This does not work without suppression or hypocrisy. And isn’t it a wonderful relief and joy when one portion of the inner push-and-pull battle has disappeared completely?
VINEETO: What splendid descriptions of “experiencing being not of ‘me’”. You had plenty of leisure to look around, so to speak, and draw some valuable conclusions, especially the observation that you have been looking for the source of feeling good – “experiencing being not of ‘me’” – somewhere other than here on earth and now, in this very moment. CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, Yes, I had suspected it and this experiencing showed clearly that there is a benevolence already occurring right here. It also subsequently highlighted many things. That in ‘my’ most fundamental drive to survive, ‘I’ can only imagine that this source of feeling good be somewhere else (among other things). I can see the significance and the wonderful occurrence of being alive right now. It makes me wonder what exactly is at stake here. And I had been letting that question simmer. But because of this it makes perfect sense to commit to feeling good come what may. I have been able to do it in a very easy way now. And every time I do not feel good, it slowly highlights what is at stake. And every time I do not feel good, it’s a simple asking of “would I really rather feel this than feel good?”. The quality of it is much better than ‘good’ and ‘bad’ feelings. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Even though it looks as if you are inching your way forward in answering your question “what is at stake” you gather the experiential answer each time you pose this question. And because you have followed your common sense that committing “to feeling good come what may” makes perfect sense, to abandon everything that stands in the way of feeling good also makes perfect sense. * VINEETO: And you also reported that when “some closeness starts to happen”, often a ‘good’ feeling, in this case “nostalgia” swoops in and diverts you from further exploring this “closeness”. It is exactly this fine-tuned attentiveness which allows you to detect such diversions sooner rather than later, before they gather solidity, and then get back to your original exploration. CHRONO: I’ve noticed it more and more in action and have been easily able to get back on track. In committing to feeling good right now, I am also willing to give up all of ‘my’ dreams. And any occurrence of nostalgia or some such bittersweet feelings is a hope for that feeling good somewhere and somewhen else. I can see the seductive nature of this chimera. VINEETO: It’s a pleasure to read of your success – and all because your promise to yourself borne of common sense “to feeling good come what may”. Then everything else is of less importance and willingly given up. * VINEETO: Lastly, when you say “sustained by the feeling of being trapped” you are probably aware that you are trapping yourself and ‘I’ am playing a trick on ‘me’ pretending the trapping is happening by someone else. CHRONO: The feeling of being trapped seems to be from not actively endorsing to being alive right now. It’s a sort of “holding back”. And the moment I actively endorse to being alive, the feeling good becomes more dynamic and more sensuous. VINEETO: Exactly. Feeling being trapped is the passive approach, stemming from convinced that things in life happen to you as the hapless non-involved victim, mostly borne of the resentment of being here, as in “life is the pits and then you die”. Once you “actively endorse” being alive you are deliberately and joyously participate being alive and able to evoke your destiny. As it turns out you contemplated that very subject in your next paragraph. CHRONO: It also showed why I do feel trapped. I secretly believe that I can escape death. It sounds odd to say but from ‘my’ perspective it feels like that to unreservedly say yes to being alive right now is also to embrace death. This way I am enjoying AND appreciating being alive. VINEETO: Do I understand you correctly – that you feel trapped because, even though you “secretly believe” you can escape death, you also know “that to unreservedly say yes to being alive right now” you need to abandon this secret belief and instead embrace the fact that you are mortal? Above you wrote “I am willing to give up all of ‘my’ dreams” – is one of the dreams being able to “escape death”? The spiritual dream of immortality via an Altered State of Consciousness? If that is what you are saying you have certainly hit the nail of the head – coming down to earth from lofty heights, embracing the very physicality of being alive, and as such also your mortality, is how you are able “to unreservedly say yes to being alive right now”. * VINEETO: You have no need to “imagine it” – from the experience you described when “not being ‘me’” there were no concerns of being a “sociopath”, were there? As such you know as an experiential fact that minimising both ‘good’ and bad feelings, i.e. minimising ‘me’, is outside the range of sane and insane, it is being salubrious. This fact answers your question directly – “to abandon both” you become more and more salubrious. CHRONO: Yes this experience is my current benchmark that I’ve been utilizing. Where there is nothing to “keep in check”. So there’s no need for control and that perhaps is hard to digest. That ‘I’ am not needed. VINEETO: Indeed. It may take some time to accept and get used to this fact ‘I’ am redundant. CHRONO: I was reading these questions and answers from Dona and Alan and there Geoffrey asks:
I am following the same train of thought that he is asking but it doesn’t seem like it was quite answered. I get the impression based on those answers that even a person feeling bad could just become actually free. Are those answers correct? Or perhaps a person that is feeling good is more likely to make the decision to become free? With that said, it does certainly make sense to feel good irregardless. VINEETO: The next paragraph from Alan might be illuminating –
And here is why there cannot ever be a connection, direct or indirect or implied –
If there were a connection, then ‘I’ would not have to die. To put it differently – ‘my’ logical thinking to get from ‘here’ to ‘there’ (or rather from ‘there’ to here) cannot conceive “that ‘I’ cannot do it” and that ‘I’ have to disappear for the actual world to become apparent. In fact it is impossible for ‘me’, by ‘my’ very nature, to conceive that ‘I’ will ever disappear. It can only be understood experientially in a PCE or moments of apperception – and then it is perfectly obvious. CHRONO: Also very funny as I am asking in that correspondence that many years ago and expressing the same fears of going insane. Looks like I am exactly the same step away as I was then. Well, aside from feeling way better than I was then. But I am stunned at how long it has been. Ha, can you see how you are depreciating the fact that you are “feeling way better than I was then” as in putting it to one side (“aside from”) while berating yourself “how long it has been”? * VINEETO: You have no need to “imagine it” – from the experience you described when “not being ‘me’” there were no concerns of being a “sociopath”, were there? As such you know as an experiential fact that minimising both ‘good’ and bad feelings, i.e. minimising ‘me’, is outside the range of sane and insane, it is being salubrious. This fact answers your question directly – “to abandon both” you become more and more salubrious. CHRONO: There were no concerns then. I realize that it seems like a long leap from here to there because of my loyalty to Humanity. VINEETO: You may find this informative –
Hence your “loyalty to Humanity” has various aspects of the social identity/ peasant mentality, which you can each recognize, understand and abandon whenever they stand in the way of enjoying and appreciating being here. * VINEETO: For a feeling being all caring is accompanied by feelings, so a useful
discernment would be to be less guided by what others expect you to do, or you yourself feel obligated to do,
according to traditional beliefs and concepts, but instead be harmless, considerate and benevolent (…) CHRONO: In keeping with seeing what is at stake, I see the nature of ‘my’ connection to Humanity is composed of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ feelings. I was speaking with my dad again yesterday and the conversation veered toward human nature. He was of the opinion that you cannot change human nature and that to do so would ensure that you could not function in society (citing the corporate politics that he has to play in his job). But he also agreed that “the bombs dropping” was sanity in action and that there can never be any solution. He seemed to intuitively understand what the nature of what I was saying was as he said if I were to become free from human nature then I would be found out and be tortured. It really felt like I was talking to the embodiment of Humanity. Subsequently, I was very appalled. I realized that there was no saving Humanity. Humanity wants to remain as it is and maintain the status quo. And by remaining a denizen, I am also one of its embodiments. VINEETO: I understand you were appalled by realizing how remaining a “denizen” you are actively supporting ‘Humanity’ and it is no wonder ‘I’ come up with the most potent and threatening counter-argument to leaving humanity – that you will go insane. But as you more and more realise, the alternative to sanity is not insanity but the salubriousness of being less and less of ‘me’, in other words, being felicitous and innocuous and appreciative of being alive. When you understand this, then chipping away at your loyalty to humanity is no longer such a scary big deal. * VINEETO: And isn’t it a wonderful relief and joy when one portion of the inner push-and-pull battle has disappeared completely? CHRONO: Yes, becoming aware of what is actually happening
underneath has been an enormous help in declining these battles. Before I didn’t understand exactly what was
happening so it would amount to suppressing or pretending. VINEETO: Above you said “I am stunned at how long it has been” – to thoroughly and experientially understand how the human psyche works is a gradual process, and you are daily reaping the rewards.
CHRONO: I’ve been back and forth and for the most part have been feeling neutral to good. There was one day where I was more in the feeling bad zone but that also didn’t hit the lows that it would have. I have been wondering about this committing to feeling good and its ramifications. With committing to feeling good, it means feeling good no matter the situation or circumstances. My life looked like it’s going in a different trajectory. I would be “giving up” a big part of who I currently thought and felt I was. I was wondering this for most of the day. At one point the feeling came back again that I would be punished. The thought of what my dad said of ‘I would be found out and tortured’ or ‘I wouldn’t be feeling good when they torture me’. And I had this realization that I would only be tortured because of ‘me’. All of the ‘me’ in every body. This was the nature of Humanity. To pull everyone down to its miserable depths. And this feeling went away right after. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, What you can also include in your considerations is that when you are feeling good, your intelligence and common sense works much, much better than when you are overwhelmed by feelings. As such, when feeling good, you are much more likely to act intelligently and give others no reason at all for “‘I would be found out and tortured’” or any such atavistic scares passed down the ages to keep people in line. CHRONO: Then the next day I was thinking about how self-immolation only happens when I’m ready. Why make it a hard effort? I started thinking about the irrevocability of it. I got some strange discomfort in my head and chest that I’ve gotten before. It’s like ‘I’ have a locality, like I’m hidden somewhere inside the body, but not actually there either. Why do I hide and what am I hiding from? What is it to be here fully? I can’t seem to remember the exact details but I had this realization that what I’ve been trying to do is change ‘me’ (as in purify ‘me’ to be un-corrupt) and that ‘I’ cannot change ‘me’. ‘I’ am all of the feelings waiting to happen. ‘I’ am the very corruption. As long as this ‘me’ is in place, ‘I’ could become anything. Then the discomfort stopped and this was like great news because it meant that ‘I’ did not have to try to change ‘me’. And that is so effortful. I didn’t need to “solve” ‘me’. I just need to feel good. VINEETO: This is an excellent insight and worth remembering whenever you are about to fall back into making “a hard effort” to purify ‘you’, the identity, instead of connecting to pure intent and feeling good. The “strange discomfort in my head and chest” is the psychosomatic reaction to the chemicals triggered by the feelings about ‘my’ survival being under threat. CHRONO: What followed was an another bout of overflowing feeling good. I was talking with my co-workers and to customers. There was almost no self-consciousness and the conversation was effortlessly fun. I spoke completely unrehearsed. There were no favorites and there was heightened sensuousness. I noticed how I was feeling good and felt even more good. I experienced the dynamic and energizing nature of this moment. I experienced this dynamicness as me. I saw the universe as it occurs right now is always in motion. Always dynamic. Always new. Always interesting. Almost like always being at the edge of my seat. I occur only right here in this moment of being alive. Inseparable from being this flesh and blood body. I saw other people and they too were living this actuality but completely not noticing it. Or rather those flesh and blood bodies were living this actuality perhaps. This experiencing was again other to ‘me’. ‘I’ could never be like this. It is actually occurring. There could be no doubt or comparison. There were ripples of delight flowing throughout my body. It continued from work til I got home. And each moment I am missing out on this. VINEETO: What a wonderful description of an excellence experience or PCE. * VINEETO: Even though it looks as if you are inching your way forward in answering your question “what is at stake” you gather the experiential answer each time you pose this question. And because you have followed your common sense that committing “to feeling good come what may” makes perfect sense, to abandon everything that stands in the way of feeling good also makes perfect sense. It’s a pleasure to read of your success – and all because your promise to yourself borne of common sense “to feeling good come what may”. Then everything else is of less importance and willingly given up. CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, Yes it makes everything easier if I’ve made committing to feeling good right now the number 1 priority. It makes sense now why I’d be more stuck in certain bad feelings in the past for a long time. It’s because that commitment had not been made. Now that it has, it’s just a matter of returning to that commitment if I notice I’m not feeling good and also figuring out why. VINEETO: It is indeed a very helpful commitment to make – when ‘it just makes sense to feel good’ is not enough to counter the swings of emotion which do occur from time to time, which then put common sense is in hibernation. * VINEETO: Do I understand you correctly – that you feel trapped because, even though you “secretly
believe” you can escape death, you also know “that to unreservedly say yes to being alive
right now” you need to abandon this secret belief and instead embrace the fact that you are mortal? If that is what you are saying you have certainly hit the nail of the head – coming down to earth from lofty heights, embracing the very physicality of being alive, and as such also your mortality, is how you are able “to unreservedly say yes to being alive right now”. CHRONO: Yes that is exactly correct. My original start to the “search for peace” was when I encountered Buddhism. At the time, it looked sensible to me as it seemed to offer a solution to the Human Condition. But I did not understand that its peace was otherworldly and “somewhere else”. It seemed attractive to ‘me’ because it also offered escaping death. Which I see was the main highlight for ‘me’. ‘I’ could be “somewhere else” where ‘I’ won’t die. And the entirety of it hinged on this belief. But by actively endorsing being alive here in this moment, I know that I am mortal and will die. To actively endorse being alive right now is to give up any otherworldly otherness. The ASC of being immortal is indeed one of the dreams that I am willing to give up. VINEETO: Spiritual immortality being a very popular belief and you having held it for some time, it might take some contemplating and being aware of any reoccurrence of that dream of immortality. But the more you contemplate it sensibly the less it makes sense, being only supported by the passionate desire of ‘my’ survival. * VINEETO:
If there were a connection, then ‘I’ would not have to die. To put it differently – ‘my’ logical thinking to get from ‘here’ to ‘there’ (or rather from ‘there’ to here) cannot conceive “that ‘I’ cannot do it” and that ‘I’ have to disappear for the actual world to become apparent. In fact it is impossible for ‘me’, by ‘my’ very nature, to conceive that ‘I’ will ever disappear. It can only be understood experientially in a PCE or moments of apperception – and then it is perfectly obvious. CHRONO: I think I understand and I wonder if there is a reluctance to see that this ‘utter fullness’ as my destiny has to do with death. But also maybe I am doing all this also because I have a simultaneous desire for death/ oblivion. Why is ‘my’ being so precious I wonder? What exactly is it that I am waiting for? What would make ‘me’ forsake ‘being’? VINEETO: What Richard is referring to is a temporary experience this particular respondent reported. You said yourself in the second paragraph above that “I was thinking about how self-immolation only happens when I’m ready”. Obviously you are not ready for the ultimate step and need to find out more about “why is ‘my’ being so precious”. Don’t let your feeling good be spoiled with a ‘self’-created conflict of being impatient. It is just another trick of ‘me’ trying to stay in the picture. (…) * VINEETO:
Hence your “loyalty to Humanity” has various aspects of the social identity/ peasant mentality, which you can each recognize, understand and abandon whenever they stand in the way of enjoying and appreciating being here. CHRONO: I realized that part of my loyalty to Humanity is because I think that ‘I’ can change Humanity. The same way that I thought that ‘I’ could change ‘me’ fundamentally. Very interesting. VINEETO: Fascinating, isn’t it – the focus changes from changing oneself to changing Humanity instead. It’s a dead-end road which, if believed, could keep you busy for the rest of your life. The attraction is that then ‘I’ wouldn’t be alone but at what price! It is also very understandable given the misery and mayhem happening all around. This quote from Richard’s Journal may be helpful –
* VINEETO: I understand you were appalled by realizing how remaining a “denizen” you are actively supporting ‘Humanity’, and it is no wonder ‘I’ come up with the most potent and threatening counter-argument to leaving humanity – that you will go insane. But as you more and more realise, the alternative to sanity is not insanity but the salubriousness of being less and less of ‘me’, in other words, being felicitous and innocuous and appreciative of being alive. When you understand this, then chipping away at your loyalty to humanity is no longer such a scary big deal. CHRONO: I can see this now. Now instead of the fear of going insane, it has turned into a feeling of loneliness. VINEETO: The above quote also answers your question of loneliness.
Once you get the knack of connecting to pure intent and experience the benignity and benevolence inherent to the purity and perfection of the infinitude, i.e. of pure intent, then there is no room for loneliness. When you experienced what you described as “another bout of overflowing feeling good” there was no loneliness, even though no one else shared the same experience. The following quote might also help –
* VINEETO: Above you said “I am stunned at how long it has been” – to thoroughly and experientially understand how the human psyche works is a gradual process, and you are daily reaping the rewards. CHRONO: I am most definitely reaping the rewards more now and
it is fascinating seeing all the workings of ‘me’.
VINEETO: Ha, every word you write confirms that. It is a pleasure to follow your process to more and more feel good.
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
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