Actual Freedom – General Correspondence

November 29 2001:

RESPONDENT: I just read the above-mentioned article (A Conversation Following the Death of John Field) from the links given in your web page and I found that it is very rare because I’ve never come across any article of Krishnamurti discussing life after death.

RICHARD: There are more than a few references scattered throughout his millions of words. Viz.:

• [quote]: ‘... reincarnation is a fact and not a belief’. (‘Early Writings’, Vol. V; p 110; Chetana, Bombay 1969).

And:

• [quote]: ‘It [reincarnation] is a fact for me because I know it’. (‘Early Writings’, Vol. IV; p 69; Chetana, Bombay 1969).

And:

• [K]: ‘When the organism dies it is finished. But wait a minute. If I don’t end the image, the stream of image-making goes on. (...). That is: I die; the organism dies and at the last minute I am still with the image that I have. (...). So there is this constant flow of image-making.
• [B]: ‘Well, where does it take place? In people?
• [K]: ‘It is there. It manifests itself in people.
• [B]: ‘You feel it is in some ways more general, more universal?
• [K]: ‘Yes, much more universal. (...).
• [B]: ‘In other words you are saying that the image does not originate only in one brain, but it is in some sense universal?
• [K]: ‘Universal. Quite right. (pages 122-126, Dialogue VII; May 20 1976;‘The Wholeness Of Life’; © 1979 by The Krishnamurti Foundation Trust Ltd; Published by HarperCollins, New York).

And:

• [quote]: ‘When you die your thought of yourself goes on in that stream as it is going on now – as a Christian, Buddhist, whatever you please – greedy, envious, ambitious, frightened, pursuing pleasure – that is this human stream in which you are caught’. (Talks in Saanen 1974, 6th Public Talk).

RESPONDENT: However, I’m still quite puzzled about a few points and I would like to share with you and hear your comments on them. It goes like this: ‘K: So, watch it. So there is no permanent self. If there was a permanent self, it would be this stream. Now, realizing that I am like the rest of the world, that there is no separate K, or John, as my brother, then I can incarnate if I step out of it. Incarnate in the sense that the change can take place away from the stream. In the stream there is no change’. He refers to incarnation as ‘stepping out so that change can take place away from the stream’. Does this mean the normal kind of physical reincarnation people commonly talked about?

RICHARD: No ... he means incarnating as a world teacher (an Avatar or a Saviour or a Messiah and so on).

RESPONDENT: I was confused because later he said: ‘K: Vulgarity. What happens if you step out of the stream? The stepping out is the incarnation. Yes, sir, but that is a new thing you are coming into. There is a new dimension coming into being’. He then goes on to discuss about dying to the stream and how it is in the new dimension.

RICHARD: Yes, the ‘new dimension’ is the enlightened state (by whatever name).

RESPONDENT: Then finally, he concluded by saying: ‘K: So, you see, sir, reincarnation, that is, incarnating over and over again, is the stream. This is not a very comforting thing’. So now for this part, he means the normal kind of physical reincarnation, or is it?

RICHARD: The normal kind of reincarnation, yes.

RESPONDENT: If it is then how about the one on the ‘stepping out to a new dimension’?

RICHARD: There will be no more reincarnation for that one.

RESPONDENT: Finally, overall, what are your views on the article?

RICHARD: If you know anything about Buddhism, and thus substitute ‘stepping off the wheel of life and death’ for ‘stepping out of the stream’, it will all become much easier to comprehend.

RESPONDENT: Does it contradict the fundamental idea of reincarnation we all commonly know about?

RICHARD: Not as such, no. He variously calls it ‘the stream of thought’ or ‘the stream of sorrow’ or ‘the stream of vulgarity’ or ‘the stream of image-making’ and so on which (supposedly) pre-exists birth and post-dates death ... the eastern mystical goal of enlightenment is all about avoiding rebirth.

Put simply: peace-on-earth is not on their agenda.