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Vineeto’s Correspondence on the Actual Freedom List Correspondent No 104
RESPONDENT: The Actual Freedom Trust site has a lot of explanations about how the Actual Freedom path is 180 degrees opposite to the spiritual path. It often focuses on, and emphasizes the Love Agape and Devine Compassion aspect of the spiritual path. There are, although, seekers, which are into what I’ll call here the ‘final Advaita’, (there’s the Advaita which is Osho, Ramana Maharshi, Krishnamurti, and there’s the Advaita which even not talks about Love Agape) their path is transcending love and compassion and bliss finally reaching Nirvana, which is beyond all that. UGK talks a lot about that, that love is the final triumph card, and emphasizes its silliness, claiming it’s only something that people hold to when all is lost. There are also others who emphasize the ‘awareness’ as the final thing, or ‘no-self’. Here, for example, is the Wikipedia definition of Nirvana:
The ‘final Advaita’ people (UGK, Jed Mckenna if anyone have heard of him, very popular now between the spiritual seekers (http://www.wisefoolpress.com/articles.htm) they kinda ridicule the message of Love and Compassion, seeing that ‘place’ as possible to indulge into, but as something that needed to be transcended if you wanna be the final/real thing (jnanna, or ‘seer’ (UGK) or spiritually realized) It’s important to add that for spiritual seekers, those who are into the ‘final Advaita’, the ‘final Advaita’ seems like kind of 180 degrees opposite of the old-feel-good abide-into-love/being message (Osho, and all the folks who talk of love, ecstasy and bliss), especially the new age spirituality which talks of transcending the bad feelings. They (Jed Mckenna for instance) speak of and emphasize the importance of the ‘zen sword’ that will cut off all the emotional attachments to all beliefs and things hold dearly to the heart, which is finally the fear of death or no-self, a process which is painful (dark night of the soul). So those seekers who are into ‘final Advaita’ will have a harder time of distinguishing between the not-deeply-checked-by-them Actual Freedom Trust message, and the ‘final Advaita’ message and put if off quickly, especially those who are deep into ideas and can misinterpreted the self-immolation message of Actual Freedom and the self-extinction message of the ‘final Advaita’. VINEETO: Have you read the selected correspondences on those
RESPONDENT: On several locations I have found on the AF site that ‘I am The Universe experiencing itself as a human flesh and blood’. And that the Universe is eternal. So I can conclude from that I am eternal. And I can also conclude from that, that there’s only oneness. So it sounds like the substitute of the spiritual message, Spiritual – I’m the Eternal Spirit having a human experience AF – I’m The Universe experiencing itself as a human body In both approaches I am eternal and all there is I’d like to understand the difference between the spiritual approach and AF approach on the matter of I and eternal. I’m rather confused on the matter. RESPONDENT No 82: The notion that there is a Spirit experiencing itself through human beings is ENTIRELY different from the notion of a physical universe experiencing itself as a human being. In the first case there is an Identity/ Spirit that temporarily borrows physical/ human form in order to express and experience itself. In the second case, there is a physical universe that has formed itself into sensate, reflective, intelligent organisms that are now sophisticated enough to experience themselves and the world that they are made of. As you and me, the universe is intelligent. The universe is not experiencing itself through us, but as us. Do you understand the distinction? RESPONDENT: What confuses me is the usage of the words ‘I am The Universe...’ in particular, or ‘... he realises himself to be The Universe experiencing itself as ...’. VINEETO: What keeps the confusion alive despite No 82’s explanation is the fact that you changed what Richard is saying ‘I am the universe experiencing itself as a human being’ to ‘I am The Universe …’ believing that they are one and the same thing. They are not. The physical material universe is not some spurious entity or some intelligent ‘energy’ spiritual believers believe it to be (as in ‘The Universe’). The universe is all the material matter and the physical space there is, infinite and eternal, arranging and rearranging itself in ever-changing myriads of forms – galaxies, nebulae, stars, planets, inanimate and animate matter, sentient beings and intelligent human beings. As a human being I am capable of not only being aware but also capable of being aware of being aware and as such I can become apperceptively aware of being the universe experiencing itself as a sensate and intelligent human being. After all, I am made of the same stuff as the universe – matter.
RESPONDENT: The AF site has a lot of explanations about how the AF path is 180 degrees opposite to the spiritual path. It often focuses on, and emphasizes the Love Agape and Devine Compassion aspect of the spiritual path. There are, although, seekers, which are into what I’ll call here the ‘final advaita’, (there’s the Advaita which is Osho, Ramana Maharshi, Krishnamurti, and there’s the Advaita which even not talks about Love Agape) their path is transcending love and compassion and bliss finally reaching Nirvana, which is beyond all that. (…) VINEETO: Have you read the selected correspondences on those RESPONDENT: Yes, I read. And I read your material about ASC. Found it helpful. Great to be here. VINEETO: Helpful for understanding the difference between an ASC and a pure consciousness experience? RESPONDENT: I think that for some people, specially those who are into the ‘final advaita’, it will be difficult to see whether there’s a difference between AF and what they’re into just by reading the front information that is on the AF site and the main sections. VINEETO: Never mind other people, what about yourself? Just so there is no misunderstanding –
Other people will do with actualism whatever they please and whatever suits their present agenda and unless someone has a burning discontent with the life they are leading (and that includes the practice of any kind of spiritual teaching) they won’t be interested in learning anything about an actual freedom from the human condition.
RESPONDENT: Reading the AF site, I’ve found out that yourself, Peter, Alan and Mark have been exposed to the AF system for quite a while now, reporting that in a matter of months you have discovered what Virtual Freedom is. How many years it takes until one becomes actually free? VINEETO: You will need to ask that to the person who is actually free. RESPONDENT: Isn’t AF supposed to work? VINEETO: Given that ‘AF’ is the acronym for Actual Freedom (an actual freedom from the human condition), I suppose you are asking if the method of actualism is ‘supposed to work’. Personally I can report that the method of actualism has worked in that it has delivered a virtual freedom from malice and sorrow and that is has enabled me to live with my companion in utter peace and harmony 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I know of no other method that delivers such results. RESPONDENT: It seems from the reading that Peter and others were so close from the final result already years ago, so why still there’s no report about a second human being being free? VINEETO: To experience life as excellent for 99% of the day is indeed close to the final result and the reason why there is no report about a second human being free is because it simply has not yet happened for a second person. When I started the process of actualism I knew that I had a long way to go before I would be actually free and I happily proceeded in leaps and bounds. Now that I am certain that there is only one single step to take – the step to ‘my’ extinction – simply because I stood at ‘the edge’ a few times, I naturally dither and dally, particularly as life in virtual freedom is pretty excellent anyway. It now seems to be a matter of the right circumstances and the right intensity of intent that will bring about the final event. Until then you will have to make do with what you’ve got – the report from one man’s way to an actual freedom and a few people’s report that the actualism delivers a virtual freedom … and if that is not enough for you to start the process of becoming free yourself, then so be it. RESPONDENT: Maybe actual freedom is only one human being’s luck and it will stay that way? VINEETO: Ha, it takes a lot of cynicism (or blatant ignorance) to consider an actual freedom from malice and sorrow ‘one human being’s luck’ and the firm conviction that life is fundamentally disappointment and suffering to believe that ‘it will stay that way’. Are you perhaps Buddhist by faith?
RESPONDENT: Maybe actual freedom is only one human being’s luck and it will stay that way? VINEETO: Ha, it takes a lot of cynicism (or blatant ignorance) to consider an actual freedom from malice and sorrow ‘one human being’s luck’ and the firm conviction that life is fundamentally disappointment and suffering to believe that ‘it will stay that way’. Are you perhaps Buddhist by faith? RESPONDENT: No, I’m UG Krishamurtian by faith which I consider worse, hah. It also has the ‘one human’s being luck’ element in it. VINEETO: Did it ever strike you as odd that someone who considers himself an unrepeatable ‘sport of nature’, who says that he has nothing to offer to advance humankind’s knowledge about itself and who called what happened to him a ‘calamity’ has so many loyal and enthusiastic followers?
RESPONDENT: I would like to discuss with you on matters regarding paranormal phenomenon such as telekinesis, Randi James, and the Universe. In a few places on the AF site I’ve found a regulation to the Randi James institute, by you or Richard, as part of an answer in case of the question being about a prove or lack there-of of a paranormal phenomenon. It is interesting to mention though, that telepathy and feeling of the emotional vibes of souls around you do exit ‘when’ there is a soul, as even evidenced by yourself and Richard. Question no.1: Why if telepathy is indeed self evident, and Randi James can’t prove it (the telepathy), even not for a million dollars, he actually debunks this phenomenon (it is also impossible to manifest a genuine (belly) laughter for a million dollars, as this event is of a spontaneous nature that requires the right vibes to happen) you still give reference to his site? VINEETO: To emphasize that anything pertaining to the psyche is not actual – that it does not exist in the actual world. RESPONDENT: Question no.2: And as telepathy in fact exist, in the real world, ‘where’ there’s a soul, and Randy James can’t prove it (the telepathy), what about a phenomenon such as telekinesis? There are plenty of reports on this. How would you regard the following reports? : http://www.jackhouck.com/pk.shtml http://www.ppsociety.com/forumtopic.php?id=1378 http://www.victorzammit.com/skeptics/winston.html there are of course many, many others. So would you say they are just plain lying? Doesn’t sound sensible to me. I have never evidenced telekinesis, so for me it’s a belief it does actually exist. But so never have I evidenced that the world is round, or neither did the scientist 2 centuries ago suspected microbes exist. There are many, many reports of people doing telekinesis. Are all of them just lying? If they do, why do they lie? What is the motive of those who anonymously claim it? After carefully reading what do they have to say, it is silly to just regard it as a non-sense and a blind lie. Question no.3: So if telekinesis does exist, how does it come up with Actualist word-view of the physical universe, especially with the fact that it isn’t a projection of a metaphysical self? VINEETO: Firstly, actualism is not a world view but (1) the direct experiencing that matter is not merely passive and (2) a practical down-to-earth method that enables anyone who is interested to become free from the human condition in toto. Secondly, telepathy, telekinesis and all other paranormal phenomena are pertaining to the psyche, as the author of the website you quoted is well aware of, and the psyche, or soul, has no existence in the actual world. Vis –
And in short –
RESPONDENT No 16: Only an ego needs to defend its words. VINEETO: I got news for you – I am not enlightened and only enlightened being are without ego. (…) RESPONDENT: My I ask then what ego should be left there for the continuation of actualism process? VINEETO: Just enough not to become enlightened, of course. RESPONDENT: What social conditioning and/or belief systems should be left there for the continuation of actualism process? VINEETO: None. When I started the actualism practice and began to investigate some of my core beliefs, it often felt as if the carpet was pulled from under my feet as my worldview fell apart piece by piece. Some of the time this resulted in a pure consciousness experience but other times the shake-up lead to an altered state of consciousness. As Richard had sufficiently warned me of the trap of enlightenment I decided to consciously explore my altered states when and as they happened in order to find out where a realization/ a PCE forks off into an ASC and why, and in order to explore how I can be sufficiently certain to recognize the trap and avoid it on future occasions. It was a fascinating and worthwhile exploration in its own right and gave me valuable insight into spiritualism and the state of enlightenment but I have to say that it was only because of stubborn determination to not stop half way that I was able to escape the seductive grandeur of these extraordinary experiences. Nowadays, altered states of consciousness don’t even arise any more as this territory is comprehensively explored and found wanting and I can get on with thoroughly enjoying being alive.
RESPONDENT: My I ask then what ego should be left there for the continuation of actualism process? VINEETO: Just enough not to become enlightened, of course. RESPONDENT: What social conditioning and/or belief systems should be left there for the continuation of actualism process? VINEETO: None. When I started the actualism practice and began to investigate some of my core beliefs, it often felt as if the carpet was pulled from under my feet as my worldview fell apart piece by piece. Some of the time this resulted in a pure consciousness experience but other times the shake-up lead to an altered state of consciousness. As Richard had sufficiently warned me of the trap of enlightenment I decided to consciously explore my altered states when and as they happened in order to find out where a realization/ a PCE forks off into an ASC and why, and in order to explore how I can be sufficiently certain to recognize the trap and avoid it on future occasions. It was a fascinating and worthwhile exploration in its own right and gave me valuable insight into spiritualism and the state of enlightenment but I have to say that it was only because of stubborn determination to not stop half way that I was able to escape the seductive grandeur of these extraordinary experiences. Nowadays, altered states of consciousness don’t even arise any more as this territory is comprehensively explored and found wanting and I can get on with thoroughly enjoying being alive. RESPONDENT: I’m mostly interested in avoiding spiritual enlightenment, and am becoming aware of the instinctual drive to that place once some of my social identity has been resolved, once an affective feeling comes together with dissociation. VINEETO: Yep, I know that one from my own experiences. What I did was deliberately go into several of those altered states in order to explore them inside out. After that they didn’t hold any more secrets and lost their attraction as I had already experienced something infinitely better. RESPONDENT: I feel that if I’ll let go all my beliefs and truths that will cause a spiritual enlightenment, since I won’t be left with anything to ‘stand on’, and won’t have any concept left. VINEETO: Well, in spiritual enlightenment one still has a whole lot of beliefs and truths, more so than before, in fact. But you are right about eventually having no concepts left – in the process of actualism they are one by one replaced by solid tangible facts. RESPONDENT: My question is, what should be left of my ego – social identity and belief systems to avoid the spiritual enlightenment, and safely continue on the actualism path? VINEETO: I don’t retain any particular bit of ego on purpose. Simply by choosing not to fall into the trap of enlightenment the last bit of ego will only go together with the last bit of soul … when I become actually free. RESPONDENT: Is a mere understanding of the issue is sufficient enough? VINEETO: Understanding and a deliberate choice, yes.
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