RESPONDENT No 37: I actually see the ‘malice and sorrow’ for myself on a daily basis in the most common places. Look around attentively and you will see it, and you just might wonder how you have put up with it for so long? Which may lead you to wonder why you would continue to put up with it?

RESPONDENT to No 37: If there is something I can do about something, I will. There is nothing I can do about any malice or sorrow in my life except to place one foot in front of the other.

VINEETO: There is indeed something you can do about it, as is evidenced by the reports of correspondents on this mailing list – the question is if you want to.

What you can do is that you pay attention to how you are experiencing this only moment you can actually experience being alive, i.e. when you pay attention to whatever feeling it is you are feeling right now. If for example you become aware that you are feeling suspicious that you are the victim of a conspiracy this very awareness itself should enable you to not express your suspicion unless you have demonstrable factual proof.

RESPONDENT: Your suggestion has been noted. And it is an intelligent example. However in this case I was not suspicious that I was a victim of a conspiracy.

VINEETO: Ah, so if you were not feeling suspicious then by the way you phrased your original post I can only assume that you were sure you were the victim of a conspiracy?

*

VINEETO: This way you do something tangible to reduce malice and sorrow (expressing unfounded suspicions only adds to the malice in the world which in turn only adds to the sorrow in the world), and by doing so make a practical contribution towards peace on earth in the only way you can. As an added benefit you also do away with the humiliation of having your suspicions exposed as being groundless and of having to ‘apologize profusely’.

RESPONDENT: It was no humiliation at all. It was my pleasure to apologize and apologize profusely.

VINEETO: The point of this thread was that you assured No 37 that ‘if there is something I can do about something, I will’ whilst conveniently assuming that ‘there is nothing I can do about any malice or sorrow in my life’.

VINEETO: However, as numerous correspondents on this list have confirmed, fact is that there is indeed something one can do about ‘any malice or sorrow’ in one’s life and I then gave you an example of how it works in practice.

Of course, if you prefer to avoid discussing the issue by denying that you had the feeling in question then that is your business but it is disingenuous to go about pretending that the only reason you are malicious and sorrowful is that there is no solution to ending the malice and sorrow in your life.

There is.

24.4.2005

RESPONDENT No 75: Have you encountered a situation where people want to test your ‘harmlessness’ by poking, trying to be mean etc. in real lives?

VINEETO to No 75: Whenever people ‘test my harmlessness’ they often do so in order that they can then judge my behaviour according to their idea of harmlessness – being meek (in religious terms) or being a pacifist (in secular terms).

(…) The real life that is this mailing list is an exception of course, but then again, if one dares to stick one’s head up above the parapet, there will invariably be those who delight in throwing brickbats – such is human nature.

You might also have observed that pointing out a fact that pulls the rug from under someone’s precious belief often raises their hackles and as such is considered to be an act of aggression in the believer’s eyes. Whilst I would not choose to take someone’s beliefs apart in ‘real life’, as you call it, this mailing list is up front about being a non-spiritual mailing list and has been specifically set up ‘to assist in elucidating just what is entailed in becoming free of the human condition’. As such this list is the very place to openly question and actively investigate all of the spiritual/philosophical beliefs, worldviews and psittacisms that pass for wisdoms and truths within the human condition so as to be able to make a clear-eyed investigation and assessment of the facts of the matter.

(…) In short – I learnt to keep my mouth shut about abandoning beliefs, about becoming happy and harmless and about ‘self’-immolation and consequently the people I meet nowadays rarely feel threatened by what I do or say and therefore rarely treat me differently to everyone else. Mostly they are far too concerned with their own lives to even want to know what I am doing, let alone ‘test’ my harmlessness. Vineeto to No 75, 23.4.2005

RESPONDENT: You dum dumb slut ... have you not learned a dum dumb thing in all your years on this verdant azure paradisaical 3^rd stone from the sun of a planet yet? You have redefined the definition of pathetic!

You have conveniently parsed out a few beliefs you refer to as spiritual or religious meanwhile leaving belief intact, alive and well. Belief is belief is belief no matter what label you schtick on them. You cannot get rid of belief... you have only replaced some with others... and now these are the ones Dic has discarded on your doorstep and doorstop and you are stuck with them whether you like it or not. You cannot exist without belief. Your entire existence is dependent upon belief. And not only that but you haven’t even discarded your spiritual or religious beliefs despite your proclamations to the contrary. Belief is spiritual and religious in nature and in its origin as are you. You are not separate from your beliefs and you never shall be. Money is spiritual. Money is religious. Money is based on belief.

VINEETO: Ha, this reads like the Magna Carta à la No 58 –

[Adaptation from the Magna Carta]: No 58, by the grace of Himself, king of his den, lord of the net, duke of his firm convictions, and count of borrowed psittacisms, to all his bailiffs and faithful subjects, greeting. Know that we, out of reverence for Nihilism and for the salvation of our ego and soul and those of all our ancestors and heirs, for the honour of Thoughtless Reign and the exaltation of holy Denial, and for the reform of our realm, on the advice of our venerable spiritual teacher U.G.K., hereby advise that ‘belief is belief is belief no matter what label you schtick on them. You cannot get rid of belief... you cannot exist without belief. Your entire existence is dependent upon belief. And not only that but you haven’t even discarded your spiritual or religious beliefs despite your proclamations to the contrary. Belief is spiritual and religious in nature and in its origin as are you. You are not separate from your beliefs and you never shall be. Money is spiritual. Money is religious. Money is based on belief.’

Therefore I No 58, by the Grace of MYSELF, advise you all to render all your beliefs including all your money to Me so that I can do as I shall please for the benefit of Me and Me alone. Apart from this we will procure nothing from anyone, either personally or through anyone else, whereby any of these concessions and liberties might be revoked or diminished; and if any such thing is procured, let it be void and null, and we will never use it either personally or through another. Adapted from the Magna Carta Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. http://www.britannia.com/history/magna2.html

There is only one thing that Your Grace has overlooked in His all-inclusive declaration which is that if this declaration is indeed the Truth, then it would reasonably follow that the declaration itself is also only a belief and therefore dependant on someone believing it.

In other words, just because you have swallowed this belief hook, line and sinker (‘you cannot get rid of belief... you cannot exist without belief’) does not mean that I do. I can get rid of my beliefs and I did, and so can everyone else.

In the same vein, your belief that I am a ‘dum dumb slut’ is a primitive macho conjecture apparently based on your personal feelings towards actualism in general and women in particular – there exists no proof whatsoever that I am indeed that and yet you are driven to endlessly repeat this unsubstantiated drivel.

RESPONDENT: Money is spiritual. Money is religious. Money is based on belief.

VINEETO: Given that you are on record as being an online gambler, does this mean that you are gambling not with money but with beliefs (or only believe you are gambling) and that when you lose you only lose beliefs (or only believe you lose) and when you win you only win more beliefs (or only believe you win), and does this mean that the whole exercise is a spiritual experience for you, a ‘meditation’ in the market place as it were?

RESPONDENT: What is money other than a piece of paper or metal or now plastic or a bit that flows through wires/cables and now money is even light travelling through optical fibers. Money works because of belief, because of faith that it is worth something when in actuality it is a piece of worthless inert matter.

VINEETO: This argument is so trite it beggars description. When you give the checkout girl in the supermarket a fifty-dollar note she knows exactly what it is worth and so do you. Money and its value has nothing to do with belief and faith – it has all to do with the agreed upon buying power of the currency.

RESPONDENT: The world and your existence is dependent upon belief and faith.

VINEETO: Not so. The world existed and did just fine before I was born and will continue to exist and do just fine after I die. Equally my existence has nothing to do with either mine or anyone else’s belief but with the fact that my father’s sperm fertilized my mother’s egg about 19,277 days ago.

RESPONDENT: Your proclamations that you have no spiritual or religious beliefs are bullshit.

VINEETO: According to the Magna Carta à la No 58 that is – I experience life differently. No spiritual or religious beliefs interfere with my enjoyment of being alive.

RESPONDENT: You have been conned, duped by your latest guru and you have eaten up his faecal matter like there is no tomorrow and you are a missionary proselytising his faecal matter for all the desperate, deluded and gullible.

VINEETO: Ha, I have verified Richard’s reports with my own experience, not just once but many times and I found my experience consistent with everything he reports. Have you verified the facticity of the meta-physical teachings of your champion U.G. Krishnamurti with your own experience?

RESPONDENT: You work all day for money... you spend your most precious commodity, all your time, working for money, which is based on spirit and belief ... and then you have the stupidity to say you have ridded yourself of such beliefs.

VINEETO: I am not working all day every day but I do work some of my time to earn the means to pay for the necessities of life, as most people do. This exchange of services for goods – money being the agreed means for each and every barter – has nothing at all to do with beliefs and all to do with trade and mutual agreements.

But there is certainly a range of beliefs and feelings people have around money and I had to investigated many of them myself on my way to becoming free from the human condition. This is how I have described it elsewhere –

[Vineeto]: When I began to examine the reasons why I was tense and serious whenever I was dealing with money and working for money, I quickly discovered that it was ‘me’, as a passionate identity, who was responsible for all of the ‘bad vibes’ around money. I discovered my anxiety of not being a success, my greed to acquire as much as possible combined with my resentment at having to work for it, my fear of being cheated, my competitiveness to get the best deal come what may and my general reluctance to relate to people in a straightforward manner and fair service-for-money contracts.

The issue of money is an excellent field for investigation for an actualist because it brings a whole range of morals and ethics to the surface for close inspection, not to mention the basic survival instincts that are activated when one is dependant upon money for sustenance and shelter. As you mention, one can also have a particular spiritual slant on one’s assessment of money such as – money is dirty, it’s the work of the devil, it’s lead weight for the soul, money corrupts, money stinks, etc, etc. But money itself is neither dirty nor evil – it is only made to be so by the fervent beliefs and passionate survival instincts of human beings.

Money – notes and coins – is unquestionably actual stuff and there is a common usage of money as an exchange medium for goods and services. When one begins to remove one’s rose-coloured and grey-coloured glasses – the good and evil spirits concerning money – one can experience that money is a simple straightforward tool. I also found I didn’t have to solve the problems that other people have with money in order to be able to use it sensibly rather than passionately – I only had to investigate my own emotions and beliefs in order to get rid of the aversion, tension and greed that money used to trigger.

Today my dealing with money is indeed a game – an utterly non-serious play, which in no way denies the necessity of having or earning sufficient for my shelter and sustenance. I delight in my paid work of putting order in people’s financial records – which is the adult version of ‘playing shop’ that I enjoyed as a girl. Peter recently pointed out that his work is playing the adult version of his favourite childhood game called ‘builder bricks’ – drawing houses and gardens for people in order to pay for his living and his toys. As for assessing how to spend my money, I found it useful to consider the time I need to work in order to pay for my necessities and then make a judgement as to how much more time I want to work in order to buy luxury items such as technical toys. This way common sense prevails over greed because time is my most valuable asset – time to do nothing really well. Vineeto to No 38, 21.10.2002

RESPONDENT: Give it up... you should disappear into a cabin in the woods like your boss … as far away from people as they are, as possible.

VINEETO: Face it No 58, despite your dire warnings and persistent discouragements actualism is here to stay.

RESPONDENT: Wake up ... before your time is up.

VINEETO: I did and got rid of my spiritual beliefs and my social identity – when are you going to follow your own advice?

4.12.2005

RESPONDENT No 32: What was not there in those experiences was the experience of infinitude.... so I thought maybe there are others who can remember if this element was present.

VINEETO to No 32: An excellence experience is not a ‘self’-less experience which explains why one remains trapped within the confinements of ‘me’ – ‘I’ will always remain separate from my surroundings and cannot possibly experience the boundless expanse of matter in infinity and eternity.

To describe how I am experiencing it now, in a PCE – in infinitude ‘I’ have no existence.

RESPONDENT: who gives a shit about infinitude? I mean really! fuck infinitude!

VINEETO: Ah, even if you tried really, really hard, No 58, it could not be done – it’s way too big.

RESPONDENT: Infinitude ain’t gonna pay your bills, put food on the table, earn your living in this society ... unless you can sell that useless concept to those who have more than enough food & shelter ...

VINEETO: No, the experience of infinitude does not pay your bills … but if that’s what you are after then there are plenty of places to teach you about how to ‘pay your bills, put food on the table, earn your living in this society’. Adult education classes or learning a trade come to mind.

An actual freedom is for those who have mastered those skills and are still not content with their life as it is but I can also say that an intelligence freed from the impetuous drive of the instinctual passions is far more easily capable of putting food on the table and a roof over one’s head than an intelligence crippled by the instinctual passions.

RESPONDENT: If there is such a thing, it cannot exist outside one’s skull, like god.

VINEETO: Ha, this is where you are on the wrong track – infinitude is all around in this non-concentric universe. It’s what’s inside one’s skull, namely a parasitical identity consisting of emotions and passions and beliefs and psittacisms, that prevents one from seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and tangibly experiencing the infinite dazzling variety and eternally changing array of physical matter – mineral, vegetative, animal and conscious animal matter – in this infinite universe.

RESPONDENT: If there is such a thing, it lies forever beyond your realizations ... there are no direct experiences … all experience is mediated by knowledge … knowledge is not individual or the domain of an individual.

VINEETO: How can you be sure that what you so confidently propose is not merely an experience mediated by someone else’s ill-informed ‘knowledge’? To propose that ‘knowledge is not individual’ makes nonsense of all of the discoveries of individual human beings that have seen human beings emerge from cowering in caves to become the most successful animal species on the planet.

RESPONDENT: It is global/universal ... it has been given to us by those before us & those before them. And where they got it from, no one can ever know.

VINEETO: Despite what everyone ‘universally’ wants you to believe, there is a way of sensibly and sensately ascertaining a fact which has nothing to do with the ‘knowledge’ that ‘has been given to us by those before us & those before them’. Not so long ago it was globally believed that the earth was the centre of the universe and that the sun revolved around the earth, a belief that has been made redundant by empirical facts to the contrary.

RESPONDENT: You are only interested in this handed down word, infinitude, from some self-declared wise man, because you think it can solve all your problems … keep dreaming … there is no infinitude without the knowledge that is programmed to see such a thing … infinitude can only be a reflection of knowledge looking at itself and as such it is limited, not infinite …

VINEETO: Nope, I don’t need to rely on anyone’s word, I have plenty of my own ‘self’-less experiences to go by – I know infinitude for a fact.

I for one don’t rely on the ‘knowledge’ that ‘where they got it from, no one can ever know’ – in this case the ancient ‘knowledge’ based on fear, ignorance and superstition that the world was finite, i.e. that it must have been created by a mysterious Force or Being of some sort, a ‘knowledge’ that has spawned over one thousand individual Gods that human beings believe in and fear the wrath of.

RESPONDENT: It is knowledge dreaming that it is infinite ‘you’ are only a collection of knowledge … ‘you’ can never see anything beyond what you already know.

VINEETO: If you like to remain in the confines of your chosen belief that you ‘never see anything beyond what you already know’, that is entirely your choice – I am only reporting that you don’t have to if you don’t want to. You can leave the apparent safety of the herd and start to stand on your own two feet, reliant only on your own experience of how ‘you’ tick and you own experiential discoveries.

9.12.2005

RESPONDENT: Richard says all emotion is deleted ... but he doesn’t act that way.

Someone who had no emotions would not answer questions and communicate with his highly valued fellow man in the manner he does... but we all notice he has gone AWOL from his own list. Thankfully. I always told him, he should get lost & stay lost. Finally he has taken my advice.

VINEETO: Did you also tell the sun to rise this morning?

5.1.2006

RESPONDENT No 93: Can you identify what went wrong, and are you still trying? Did you get to a stage where you could live with gay abandon (so to speak) without harming yourself or being dangerous to others?

RESPONDENT No 38: Nothing really went wrong, it just didn’t go right. The goal of being happy and harmless just seems contrived (not that there’s anything wrong with it). I’m more interested in pulling the curtain from all illusions, good bad or ugly. The reductionist approach works... eviscerate everything that isn’t true, and what remains is by definition truth.

Clues to this come from many sources. At this point I think I am no longer particularly harmful to myself or others ...

VINEETO to No 38: I wonder what would happen if you abandoned what you call ‘not being particularly harmful’ and replaced it with being sincerely appreciative of your fellow human beings instead? to No 38, 3.1.2006

RESPONDENT: Is this nitpicking with your fellow human beings words, your demonstration of ‘being sincerely appreciative of your fellow human beings instead’ of not being particularly harmful?

VINEETO: In what way is it ‘nitpicking’ to point out that the way No 38 chooses to conduct his conversations (a way he defines as ‘not being particularly harmful’) is a far cry from being actually harmless? In other words, isn’t it obvious that a cynical and sarcastic outlook on life and a cynical and sarcastic attitude to what others choose to do with their lives prevents one from being unconditionally happy, let alone harmless?

RESPONDENT: Do as I say, not as I do? That does seem to be one of the hallmarks of actualism.

VINEETO: As I was not nitpicking your accusation of ‘do as I say, not as I do’ has no basis.

The reason I responded to No 38’ post was because I know from years of dabbling on the spiritual path that it is easy to be seduced onto the slippery slope to solipsism without even noticing that this is where the practice of the various techniques of Advaita, Zen, reductionism, etc. lead to. I sure would have appreciated at the time had someone given me the information that is now available here on this mailing list and on the Actual Freedom Trust website.

7.1.2005

RESPONDENT No 38: (…) At this point I think I am no longer particularly harmful to myself or others.

VINEETO to No 38: I wonder what would happen if you abandoned ‘not being particularly harmful’ (snipped examples) and replaced it with being sincerely appreciative of your fellow human beings instead?

RESPONDENT: Is this nitpicking with your fellow human beings words, your demonstration of ‘being sincerely appreciative of your fellow human beings instead’ of not being particularly harmful?

VINEETO: In what way is it ‘nitpicking’ to point out that the way No 38  chooses to conduct his conversations (a way he defines as ‘not being particularly harmful’) is a far cry from being actually harmless? In other words, isn’t it obvious that a cynical and sarcastic outlook on life and a cynical and sarcastic attitude to what others choose to do with their lives prevents one from being unconditionally happy, let alone harmless?

RESPONDENT: Do as I say, not as I do? That does seem to be one of the hallmarks of actualism.

VINEETO: As I was not nitpicking your accusation of ‘do as I say, not as I do’ has no basis.

The reason I responded to No 38’ post was because I know from years of dabbling on the spiritual path that it is easy to be seduced onto the slippery slope to solipsism without even noticing that this is where the practice of the various techniques of Advaita, Zen, reductionism, etc. lead to. I sure would have appreciated at the time had someone given me the information that is now available here on this mailing list and on the Actual Freedom Trust website.

RESPONDENT: First of all ... one of the hallmarks of actualists, as demonstrated by its founder & his followers on this list, is not to decifer ones intended intent from the content of ones words ... it is to read into it what is good for promoting their actualism prosletysing and to defend their adopted dogma. And it is this reading into what is good for your agenda, that is cynical & sarcastic. You may wish to examine your own cynicism & sarcasm if you think it prevents one from being unconditionally happy, let alone harmless.

VINEETO: The problem with maintaining a cynical/ sarcastic outlook on life is that it means that it is impossible to recognize sincerity in others because one is continually busy demeaning others in order to feel superior to others.

I learnt very early on in my acquaintance with actualism that I needed to drop both my gullibility and my cynicism and rekindle my naiveté if I wanted to even understand anything about becoming free from the human condition, let alone proceed. It may make me look like a fool in many a cynic’s eye but that is a small price to pay for being able again to see the world with those fresh, curious, vitally interested and naive eyes as I did in my childhood years.

You yourself had a short glimpse of the attraction of naiveté and an insight of the burden of cynicism and mistrust when you came to this mailing list but for whatever reason you decided not to act on this insight at the time. I admit, it does take a bit of guts to be a fool in the eyes of the world-weary worriers and warriors but hey, life’s so excellent now and so much fun – who cares – it was well worth losing my image and attitude of a serious realist and/or a sombre spiritualist.

16.1.2006

RESPONDENT to Richard: You are most certainly a probity cop when it suits your agenda. i.e., your previous companion Irene, got her virtually free license revoked upon the demise of your relationship. T’wasn’t that true? It is written somewhere in your voluminous petty archives … I will not search for it … if you deny it, you lie only to yourself & your flock of sheep who await the very next breath you fake.

VINEETO: Such ploy is akin to me saying that it is true that No 58 masturbates all day and buys his companions at www.realdoll.com … it is written somewhere in your 1057 emails written to this list … I will not search for it … if you deny it, you lie only to yourself & your audience who await the very next breath you fake.

You might as well admit that your genre is cyber fantasy and poison pen fiction – it would solve the mystery as to why you are always so way off the mark in your allegations.

21.6.2006

RESPONDENT to Richard: You are most certainly a probity cop when it suits your agenda. i.e., your previous companion Irene, got her virtually free license revoked upon the demise of your relationship. T’wasn’t that true? It is written somewhere in your voluminous petty archives … I will not search for it … if you deny it, you lie only to yourself & your flock of sheep who await the very next breath you fake.

7.5.2006

RESPONDENT to Richard: Are you or are you not the 1^st person ever to be free of the human condition? Are there others? <snipped repetition> Still not blue ... and no cows

VINEETO: Go fishing, No 58. You have run out of something sensible to say a long time ago.

RESPONDENT: You are implying I once had some sensible to say. Thanks V !

VINEETO: Yes, I thought you did once, shortly after you came to this mailing list –

[Respondent]: Throughout my life, cynicism, mistrust (healthy or otherwise) has kept me away from many offerings, systems, groups, etc, for better or worse. It is no doubt the same view at work that I brought to AF. I had come to rely solely upon myself to figure things out. I have come to the conclusion that what you have to offer is worth a look/see. I have nothing to lose. It is a no risk proposition from my vantage point. Change of Heart, 29.10.2003

Unfortunately for you, this ‘Change of Heart’ never had a chance to get off the ground as you soon reverted back to the more familiar attitude of cynicism, slander and defeatism.

RESPONDENT: Lets just say, I, for a moment there, questioned a way, (what you call cynicism, what I call a healthy questioning of authority or anything), that was natural to me and tried on ‘your’ way because you promised something if I would change. I very quickly found out that the hypocrisy of you, your mate & your leader was no different than that of every other system, philosophy, religion, teaching, teacher, etc. So, rather than saying, ‘I blew it’ ... it is you 3 who blew it and continue to blow it.

VINEETO: Already long before I discovered actualism I had began to grasp the fact that making other people responsible for the way I feel and act is detrimental to my becoming free from society’s restrictions and control. Actualism gave me the full understanding that the only person I can change, and need to change, in order to become free is ‘me’ and combining this understanding with the tool of the actualism method has resulted in life nowadays being delightful and easy and other people’s feelings and fantasies are very rarely able to interfere with the way I experience being alive.

In other words – even if (note ‘if’) Richard, Peter and Vineeto were as hypocritical as you would like to make them out to be, which they are not, you would be ill-advised, misguided, injudicious and imprudent to make this the reason, or rather the excuse, for the way you choose to live your life. Don’t you know that you can always find someone amongst the 6 billion people on the planet who apparently gives you cause and reason for being cynical, slanderous and defeatist, or pissed off, angry, furious and murderous, not to mention sad, sorry, depressed or suicidal?

Even if you believed your own reasoning that actualists were the cause for you discarding the option of rekindling your naiveté, fact is that you are always the one who is making the choice of how to be and what to do with your life, for better or for worse.

29.6.2006

RESPONDENT No 48: Like every person, except for the ones living in virtual or actual freedom, I am emotional when it comes to money. It seems like a good idea to establish an income that comes in with very minimal/no work so that if I become unable to work, I can still pay for what I need. My question is for those in virtual/actual freedom, what is the investment vehicle and strategy that creates this kind of income, that makes the most sense?

RESPONDENT: Good luck ... and please please please ... do not seek financial advice from this site. Humanity is littered with spiritual seekers seeking financial advise from their spiritual advisors &/or giving the shirts off their backs to their greedy spiritual advisors.

VINEETO: You are lying through your back teeth, No. 58, and you know it. You have been subscribed to this list for years and as such you know very well that actualism is about an actual freedom from the spirit being inside this flesh-and-blood body. By its very nature, an actual freedom is the very opposite of anything spiritual.

Your contributions to this list have been reduced to presenting one fabrication after another about actualists and actualism which you maintain and defend until you have so much egg on your face that even you cannot help but notice it and then you just invent another cock-and-bull story.

And why? To promote your defeatist attitude in a spiteful reprisal of ‘if I don’t manage to be happy then nobody else should be happy either’ as you try to prevent others from discovering for themselves what you personally reject – that one can indeed live happily and in peace with one’s fellow human beings.

2.7.2006

VINEETO: Your contributions to this list have been reduced to presenting one fabrication after another about actualists and actualism which you maintain and defend until you have so much egg on your face that even you cannot help but notice it and then you just invent another cock-and-bull story.

RESPONDENT to No 23: Vineeto has gone full circle & she’s gone nowhere.

VINEETO: Ha, it only looks ‘full circle’ ‘gone nowhere’ to someone who hasn’t yet learnt to count to three.

Let me spell it out for you – one: materialism, two: spiritualism, third alternative: actualism. Repeat – one, two, three – not so difficult after all, isn’t it?

RESPONDENT to No 23: She was bequeathed a divisive, hateful, us against the world, Nazi lineage; she rejected that & went 180 degrees opposite to a love everyone, fuck everyone, the world is one philosophy via Osho and now she is back to a divisive actualists vs everyone else philosophy.

VINEETO: As for your stereotype fantasy of my ‘divisive, hateful, us against the world, Nazi lineage’ let me inform you that my father was a life-long supporter of the communist / socialist party and my mother was born and brought up in an Eastern European country which had been occupied by Germans before and during the Second World War. Besides, all German people of all ages were thoroughly de-Nazified via Allied re-education programmes in the decades after the war, so if you are looking for Nazi-mentality you will find it more frequently outside of Germany.

The hoary objection of ‘a divisive actualists vs everyone else philosophy’ has been raised, answered and refuted many times over, collected on one page for your convenience. And here it is again spelt out concisely and to the point.

RESPONDENT to No 23: 60 years ...

VINEETO: You just proved my point again that you have been reduced to presenting one fabrication after another about actualists and actualism. This one is so far off the mark as to be risible – 60 years ago my parents were both still teenagers and were yet to meet each other.

RESPONDENT to No 23: … and she hasn’t moved a step.

VINEETO: As far as I am concerned, I am very pleased with the progress I made becoming virtually free from malice and sorrow. It is your conviction and your practice not mine that moving a step is impossible –

[Respondent]: ‘Nothing makes a difference as far as freeing oneself of the self. Can’t be done. ‘Re: Some Thoughts’; 27.12.2004

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