VINEETO: You commented on something I wrote to No 38 –

The only ‘fundamental experience of the actual’ that we are talking about on this list is the pure and perfect actuality that only becomes apparent when the ‘self’, in its totality, disappears along with all of the animal survival passions. Actualism is indeed unique in that neither Buddhism nor Jiddu Krishnamurti, neither U.G. Krishnamurti nor any of the many Advaita teachers and sages nor any other spiritual teaching come anywhere close to comprehending that the root cause of the human condition is genetically-encoded as a rough and ready survival package. Nowhere else will you find this being talked about.

RESPONDENT: This is completely untrue, in that it is the teaching of the school of the Dalai Lama, the prasangika madhyamika or middle way consequence school that such is the case, and is spoken of somewhat frequently in teachings.

VINEETO: If you could provide a referenced quote where either ‘the teaching of the school of the Dalai Lama, the prasangika madhyamika or middle way consequence school’ make specific reference to the instinctual survival passions as being the root cause of human misery and mayhem it would be most appreciated. Of course a further reference that unequivocally states that the elimination of the instinctual self in its entirety is the only way to eliminate the instinctual passions such that the already, always existing peace on earth can become apparent would be the icing on the cake.

RESPONDENT: It is also the teaching of J. Krishnamurti, though he never refers to it directly, it is obvious that is saying that it is natural for a human being to move away from pain toward pleasure as an act of insecurity, and for the memory function to function from a reference point of looking back at the past and selecting a configuration of subjectively chosen details that eventually becomes a psychological center, due to fear.

VINEETO: Again, I would appreciate if you could back up your claim by providing a quote were J. Krishnamurti refers to the fact that it is the instinctual passions that are the root cause of the human condition of malice and sorrow. You could further substantiate your claim that ‘this is all untrue’ by providing evidence that J. Krishnamurti explains that the instinctual animal passions are genetically-encoded within every human being and that it is these animal survival passions that give rise to the parasitical entity or the ‘being’ who thinks and feels it is separate from the flesh and blood body.

You may find it useful to read at least some of what has already been said about the teachings of J. Krishnamurti on the Actual Freedom Trust website so as to avoid using quotations that have already been discussed and found to be naught but olde time Eastern religion.

RESPONDENT: This is also implied in many other teachings, such as the teaching of Christianity, for one.

VINEETO: I was brought up a Christian and all I was told, and all I could find in their holy scriptures, was that the root cause of the human condition is the original sin of the first humans disobeying their creator god – the fairy tale of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden apple from the tree of knowledge. If you could provide a passage from the teachings of Christianity where the teachings refer to the fact that the instinctual survival passions are the root cause of human malice and sorrow and that the extinction of one’s ‘being’ will result in the elimination of these instinctual passions thereby bringing about an actual end to malice and sorrow it would be most appreciated.

RESPONDENT: It is obvious that the people on this list do not know too much about Buddhism. There are many different schools of Buddhism. The knowledge of Richard in regard to Buddhism and Gurdjieff is pathetically limited, and he also does not seem to really understand the teaching of J. Krishnamurti. He has shaped it all to fit his preconceptions, to make ‘actualism’, but anyone who goes to the website and has any real understanding of some of these topics would be instantly repelled, as his presentation comes across as very ignorant. Personally, I went to the web site with an open heart and an open mind. I had no preconceptions about actualism and actually approached it fresh. It is amazing that so many people, not only here, but everywhere, will believe anything they read and then start talking about it as true and using it as a base for further speculation. I never ceased to be amazed at this.

VINEETO: As Richard has answered this part of your objection, and you have yet to respond, I will make no further comment at the moment.

7.5.2004

RESPONDENT No 45: Hi everybody, to me the question HAIETMOBA? Has no meaning whatsoever. Is another way invented for the classical ‘passive awareness’. Through this question somebody tries to be aware. And of course should be enough just to ask How Am I feeling? The trap is that this question throws you put of the present moment. The nature of awareness is such, that somebody can not be aware that he is unaware.

RESPONDENT: This is correct.

VINEETO: How can you say ‘this is correct’ on the one hand and yet on the other hand ask another correspondent how the actualism method works? Vis –

[Respondent to No 49]: How exactly does this method of looking at ones feelings work for you and others? (I believe it is called Haitoma or something like that). What are the exact steps, broken down, from a to b to c etc.? I believe the method involves seeing of oneself doing harm? What is harm? What exactly does this mean? Re: Question for Respondent, 4.5.2004

If you know that the actualism method has no meaning and that it doesn’t work, then why bother to ask another what it means and does it work?

RESPONDENT: Moreover, a human being chooses what feelings to look at, to notice, out of his own subjective conditioned ongoing state of thinking/ feeling /reacting, so this method cannot possibly bring about the transformation of a human being. It is all very obvious and anyone intelligent should be able to understand this instantly, once it is pointed out to him, but some people cannot grasp this concept. Why not? Because they are experiencing some kind of favourable (pleasurable) results from looking at their feelings in this way.

VINEETO: You claim that there is no spirit of inquiry on this list and yet it is you who asserts that ‘this method cannot possibly bring about the transformation of a human being’ according to your preconceived ideas based on ancient spiritual teachings.

There is a vital difference between the ‘passive awareness’ of Eastern mysticism and the actualism method and that is the pure intent to become happy and harmless, born of the PCE, in the world-as-it-is with people-as-they-are. This pure intent is born of one’s pure consciousness experience of the perfection of the actual world, an experience in which it is evident that ‘I’ am the problem because the ‘self’ in toto, both ego and soul, are temporarily absent. An actual freedom from all the misery and mayhem of the human condition can only happen when ‘I’ in my totality not only agree to, but actively facilitate, ‘my’ demise.

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