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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Selected Correspondence Sensate/ Sensuous
SONYA: Another cool experience to log in! So, lately I’ve been kinda just been enjoying and appreciating as much as possible, this would mostly be in the form of noticing whenever I felt bad, seeing that I am being that feeling and being 100% okay with not intellectualising why I may feel that way or to try find any kind of "answer". I’ve noticed that I’ve found it easier and quicker to get back to feeling neutral and then feeling good again. So I’ve been in a general good mood without any lasting dramatic flares. I think because of this I’ve been able to notice more when I start to head down that path, I’ve started to clearly pin point when my mood changes and just seeing that this is me being this way seems to nip it before it progresses further. Simply because there seems to be no "valid" reason to be remain upset about anything. With all this kind of happening automatically now I think it opened up a new level for me. Last Thursday, I was walking to dance class from my car. It had just rained so the air was cool and had that fresh wet rain smell. I was just enjoying walking, smelling, seeing, feeling the air etc. but not in a forced way if that makes sense. It was a simple direct experiencing of my surroundings. I was simply just happy to be walking. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, This is a great report – with less energy wasted in negative mood changes – because you learnt how to nip them in the bud or simply find them unnecessary – you are now free to enjoy, and appreciate, the whole smorgasbord of sensate experiencing which being alive has to offer. It is certainly another kind of enjoyment – the unconditional enjoyment of simply being alive. SONYA: I remember I was almost at my destination and walking
under some trees and all of a sudden it was like everything came into focus with the most clarity I’ve ever
experienced. Colours were so vivid and it was like looking through binoculars that were previously "blurry and
unfocused" and the settings had adjusted to a clear and crisp image. It was so intense I was definitely taken
aback and almost stumbled a little bit. It was quite exhilarating. It lasted a few seconds then faded back to
"normal". After I was definitely feeling a bit shaken but not in a scared way, more like my definition on
what was a "direct" way of experiencing the world was turned on its head and amplified really suddenly,
really quickly and it has shaken something. There was a raw directness to it that I had never experienced before that
I’d like to experience again. VINEETO: It seems you had your first taste of "a "direct" way of experiencing the world", i.e. direct because the feelings/identity which was blurring your sensate experiencing was temporarily in abeyance. It is wonderful and amazing when that happens and confirms that exactly this is what you want more of. You might like this one –
Here is one of my favourite descriptions –
Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: By choosing to highlight the first section, which emphasis ‘me’, your presentation is diametrically opposite to Richard’s statement that “sensuousness is the wondrous awareness of the marvel of being here now at this moment in time and this place in space.” [highlighted] The interpretation is making sensuousness all about ‘me’ rather than emphasising “the wondrous awareness of the marvel of being here now at this moment in time and this place in space”, which is applying one’s attentiveness to the already always existing perfection of “being here now at this moment in time and this place in space.” It is expanding one’s awareness and wondrous attention beyond one’s favourite “visually appealing things” from which self-less awareness – apperceptiveness – can occur. [end highlight by Syd]. SYD: Thanks a good pointer, Vineeto, thank you. By highlighting that quote from Claudiu I did want to bring attention to this unseen-before interpretation of sensuousness which emphasizes ‘me’. When Richard uses ‘sensuousness’ he is referring to either experiencing it in a PCE or actual freedom. Basically, for him (and you?), there’s no ‘feeling-being version’ of sensuousness – even though this is what Claudiu and others were talking about in the posts above, VINEETO: I understood why you highlighted it, that’s why I commented on it, so you are not mislead by this snippet of a quote. I pointed out that when you focus your attention on ‘me’ being sensuous you may be reinforcing ‘me’ rather than allowing sensuousness to experience “the wondrous awareness of the marvel of being here now at this moment in time and this place in space”. Why do you say “and you?” – I experience no “‘feeling-being version’ of sensuousness”, ever since have become actually free.
(snipped quotes) SYD: What I take from all of this is that, for a feeling-being – sensuousness is not about
paying attention to the senses in a dry way whilst retaining ‘my’ modus-operandi. Rather, it automatically
involves thinning ‘me’ (with cheerful concurrence) sufficiently enough so that ‘I’ now have the space, so to
speak, to be able to simply enjoy & appreciate all that which is unfolding sensately or proprioceptively in this
only moment of being alive. I believe this understanding is in line with the yellow-highlighted part of your response
above. Or maybe I’m still missing something …
VINEETO: Claudiu’s emphasis on clarifying that any sensuousness “has to do with enjoyment and appreciation of the senses” was very apt, and you also have “a muddled affer/ spiritual/ buddhistic background” from years of practicing Vipassana, where senses are considered symptoms of “dukkha” (falsely translated as unsatisfactory or suffering) –
I recommend the above link and other selected correspondence from Richard on Buddhism You already had a long discussion with Richard on this very topic in December 2012 –
That you only now discover, from Claudiu’s report, that sensuousness is something different to “paying attention to the senses in a dry way” means that this chapter of your habitual way of paying attention to your senses needs a whole new assessment. It will also have significant ramifications on your practical understanding of the actualism method of enjoyment and appreciation in general and the word intimacy in particular (having aimed for something akin to ‘equanimity’ perhaps?). I only mention this because I know from ‘Vineeto’s’ experience that habitual thought and behavioural patterns persist unless specific attention is applied to them. Cheers Vineeto
SYD: This is more or less what I had in mind when I wrote “thinning ‘me’ … have
the space … simply enjoy & appreciate” … and even more specifically I was thinking of rememoration of
my PCEs (how else can that “beyond one’s favourite” come about?) … and rememoration
and pure intent seems inextricably linked per this discussion: Connection with Pure Intent = Rememoration VINEETO: Whilst you only focus on the words “allow to” I also saw the word “analogous”, (i.e. not exactly, comparable, similar, related) – and so the watering-down process happens. Your analytical, singling-out process does not do you any service when it comes to understanding pure intent, which is always outside of ‘me’. Nothing an identity can experience is in any way comparable to the actual world. It is a different paradigm. A feeling being can only ever lean into the direction of imitating actuality, being well aware that, except in a PCE, it is never the same to the feeling being’s experience. Hence my suggestion below to start by living the sincere intent to become harmless (and thus genuinely happy). When you look closely at the thread you provided for your definition of what pure intent is, here is how you started – SYD: Per Miguel’s paraphrasing, Geoffrey defines [the connection to] Pure Intent as
the very “revival” (rememoration) of one’s PCE in this moment right now. VINEETO: Whereas Miguel correctly said – “That “revival” would be the connection with pure intent, the ‘golden thread’ mentioned by Richard.” Be careful not to water down the meaning of pure intent for yourself – from revival (rememoration) being “the connection” to pure intent, by putting “[the connection to]” in square brackets. From there it is easy (for the cunningness that one’s identity is) to forget the words in square brackets and equate “the connection” with pure intent itself. Firstly, I recommend to take your understanding of what pure intent actually is from the source, reading it over and over with you whole being, until you experientially get it, and not other people’s rephrasing or paraphrasing from what Geoffrey said in a video meeting. They could be correct but they could also not be. The very fact that you presently cobble together your understanding from many different quotes speak for the fact that you do not experience pure intent yourself. The acknowledgement of this fact is vital to not settle for any certitude until you unambiguously experience it for yourself. Here is the original definition of pure intent – don’t forget to access the tool-tips as well –
When you read the article, don’t pick out phrases to memorize but rather immerse yourself experientially in the flavour of what Richard is conveying. Once you get the knack, it might help you having an excellence experience or a PCE. Secondly, I also recommend before trying to genuinely experience pure intent to first aim for understanding, and living, sincere intent, which is to be harmless and happy as much as humanly possible. I put ‘harmless’ first, because for many it is the more difficult aspect of an actualist’s sincere intent. (Btw, sincere, as used on the website, does not mean ‘true to your feelings’ but true to facts and actuality – and feelings are not facts). When this intent is firmly imbedded and actualised, i.e. apparent to yourself and others in your daily actions you are in a much better position to grasp the experiential meaning of pure intent. In other words, you can only experience this “genuinely occurring stream of benevolence and benignity” when in your daily life you are as benevolent and benign as a feeling being can be – because that “genuinely occurring stream” is always outside of ‘you’. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO to Syd: Now this may not be the situation in your case but your recent reposting CLAUDIU: Mmm that’s interesting, Vineeto. I did think sensuousness referred to something ‘I’ do, a way of ‘me’ experiencing the world, which leads to apperception – at which point, while apperceptive, there is an actual sensuousness that is intrinsic, but the ‘me’ being sensuous is what allows ‘me’ to allow that PCE to happen. VINEETO: Hi Claudiu, I have no problem with your writing, and of course for a feeling being there is always in identity operating so the scare quotes are often purely academic. But when Syd singled out this single paragraph for reposting I wanted to avoid a misunderstanding in his mind so as to not emphasise ‘my’ action in the experiencing of a general sensuousness, as in ‘look at me I am being sensuous here’ because that would be counterproductive. It turned out that he needed this nudge in order to recognize that being sensuous is not “dry” at all, like in the spiritual/buddhistic practice, but can be full of joie de vivre and delight –
CLAUDIU: Reading the whole article VINEETO: The article is about how attentiveness and sensuousness can lead to apperceptiveness. CLAUDIU: Can you clarify for the record which it is? You did write (emphasis added):
The specific point is this: If sensuousness is something from which apperception / apperceptiveness can occur, then it is something which occurs before apperception, i.e. outside of a PCE. And if it’s outside of a PCE – it is, necessarily, something ‘I’ do. Or, at the very least, something ‘I’ allow to happen (analogous to allowing pure intent to increase in its potency for action). If sensuousness only occurs inside a PCE, then it does not make sense that it is something from which a PCE can occur, since it already would be occurring. VINEETO: I was simply going by what Richard wrote, for instance here –
If you analytically take apart the words and try to fit them into a logical concept you will always get into trouble with actualism – it is experiential and the words are describing the experiential event. For instance, when Richard wrote in the 1st paragraph of the 2nd section “When one first becomes aware of something there is a fleeting instant of pure perception of sensum” apperceptiveness occurs a split second “before one affectively identifies with all the feeling memories (…) and also before one cognitively recognises the percept”. So you might say there is a logical contradiction because sequentially it more often occurs when one has allowed attentiveness first. What is your own recollection when you experience sensuousness? Does it only occur in a PCE? Or can you delight in sensual and sensuous experiencing when feeling happy or feeling excellent? CLAUDIU: What I was attempting to convey in the initial quote is it’s something ‘I’ do, but not for the purpose of furthering ‘myself’ (i.e. tilting away from actuality), but rather something ‘I’ do for the purpose of tilting towards actuality, i.e. of allowing pure intent, allowing ‘myself’ to marvel at this wonder of being alive, which naive felicity readily lends itself to an EE (if one is not already occurring) and thence to a PCE. VINEETO: As I said at the beginning, I have no problem with your writing to Adam-B CLAUDIU: Let me know if that clarifies anything. As I write this now it seems to make sense to think of sensuousness as more analogous to pure intent, i.e. something ‘I’ allow to happen but not something ‘I’ do – and when a PCE is happening it is automatic. That does seem to track much better with my experience. VINEETO: It’s curious that you now say you “think of sensuousness as more analogous to pure intent” whereas in the beginning of this post you wrote “I did think sensuousness referred to something ‘I’ do”. In either case, pure intent is not something ‘you’ do. You may find my post to Syd of today informative –
Sensuousness can be analogous to pure intent but you would know that it is not pure intent per se. Otherwise I fully agree and it is delightful how easy fully enjoyed and appreciated sensual and sensuous experiencing can lead to excellence experience and PCE. Cheers Vineeto
CLAUDIU: Hi Vineeto, VINEETO: I have no problem with your writing, and of course for a feeling being there is always in identity operating so the scare quotes are often purely academic. But when Syd singled out this single paragraph for reposting I wanted to avoid a misunderstanding in his mind so as to not emphasise ‘my’ action in the experiencing of a general sensuousness, as in ‘look at me I am being sensuous here’ because that would be counterproductive. CLAUDIU: Ok, that makes sense now. The point of confusion is if you were saying that sensuousness is something only occurring in a PCE. And then I found this quote (emphasis added):
i.e. that “sensuousness” has an “in-built apperceptive awareness”, and thus I thought it may be actual only. VINEETO: Hi Claudiu, I am delighted that it makes sense to you now. When you say “actual only” – being actually free automatically includes “apperceptive awareness” as the “vivifying facet”. That also means that the more the identity is in the background, the more one experiences the utterly delightful enjoyment and appreciation of sensuousness. I remember Kuba recently saying –
CLAUDIU: However I see now that you were just drawing an emphasis away from ‘me’ and towards the object/ point of sensuousness, rather than saying it can’t happen outside of a PCE – and of course, Richard was in that quote describing sensuousness as it occurs whilst apperceptive (PCE or actually free), not excluding that there is a feeling-being sensuousness that a feeling-being can make use of in order to lead towards apperception (much like enjoyment and appreciation itself being actual during a PCE/when actually free, and affective when outside of a PCE!) VINEETO: Yes, I am pleased you can see that. * CLAUDIU: Reading the whole article I can see now how it could be referring to just something that occurs in apperception. VINEETO: The article is about how attentiveness and sensuousness can lead to apperceptiveness. CLAUDIU: Yes, that is what I had thought before! VINEETO: I think the first sentence of the article specifies it most precisely –
Btw, I read in this thread, in a conversation you had with Kuba earlier, that you “never did like” the article (link). I understand you well because ‘Vineeto’ also did not particularly like the article, it was too confusing for ‘her’. However now, especially when I read only a few sentences here and there, I am impressed at the detail and precision of Richard’s observations and descriptions of how human consciousness operates. Now that there is no identity that might obscure what I read with previous concepts or ideas so as to confuse the content of Richard’s writing, it is treat to read it. * VINEETO: If you analytically take apart the words and try to fit them into a logical concept you will always get into trouble with actualism – it is experiential and the words are describing the experiential event. CLAUDIU: Yes, in this case it made sense though, the from which is logical (and aligns with experience) that it’s something that leads to a PCE as well, not only something in a PCE. VINEETO: What is your own recollection when you experience sensuousness? Does it only occur in a PCE? Or can you delight in sensual and sensuous experiencing when feeling happy or feeling excellent? CLAUDIU: It was a matter of what the words refer to – there is something that I was experiencing outside of a PCE that I was calling “sensuousness”, and then I became unsure that that was what to call it. Now I am sure again that it had been the correct word all along. Sensuousness really beings to shine during an excellence experience, where it takes on an aspect of that magical quality that is intrinsic to PCEs. At that level it really is a wide-eyed wonder at just how amazingly, thoroughly delightful and enjoyable being alive really is! It continues to knock my socks off. VINEETO: Yes, sensuousness can operate at any time, and the quality of it varies the less ‘you’ the identity interferes with feelings and classifications, and the more magical it can be. * VINEETO: It’s curious that you now say you “think of sensuousness as more analogous to pure intent” whereas in the beginning of this post you wrote “I did think sensuousness referred to something ‘I’ do”. In either case, pure intent is not something ‘you’ do. CLAUDIU: Haha oops. The ‘analogy’ was in the sense of sensuousness being something ‘I’ allow rather than something ‘I’ do. Sensuousness is more like an “allowing” rather than a “I can do it like I can move my hand” kind of thing. It does seem to really take on a life of its own once pure intent is in the picture, which imbues it all with that ‘magical quality’. VINEETO: Ah, that’s wonderful, especially when it takes on “a life of its own once pure intent is in the picture, which imbues it all with that ‘magical quality’”. That’s what is drawing you irresistible closer and closer to your destiny. *
CLAUDIU: Incidentally and for similar avoiding-watering-down purposes, I don’t like that
phrasing of “rememoration is the connection with pure intent” (as I wrote here Thus we would have it that “rememoration is the connection with the intimate connection betwixt the near-purity of the sincerity of naiveté and the pristine-purity of that actual innocence which is inherent to living life as a flesh-and-blood body only”. Indeed it would be too easy to drop the first ‘connection’ and be left with the erroneous “rememoration is the connection betwixt the near-purity of the sincerity of naiveté and the pristine-purity of that actual innocence which is inherent to living life as a flesh-and-blood body only”. I think a better phrasing would be that rememoration is the key to allowing pure intent (my only hesitation is that I’m not sure if it is the only key, so perhaps “one of the keys” is better). VINEETO: Yes, “one of the keys is better”. You certainly have a gift with words. CLAUDIU: In any case then we would have that “rememoration is the key to allowing that intimate connection betwixt the near-purity of the sincerity of naiveté and the pristine-purity of that actual innocence which is inherent to living life as a flesh-and-blood body only”, as well as “rememoration is the key to allowing the experience of that manifest life-force; that genuinely occurring stream of benevolence and benignity that originates in the perfect and vast stillness that is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe”. VINEETO: And once the connection is firmly established, pure intent (the universe, so to speak) can run one’s life, as in letting go of the controls, and interruptions or interference by dominant feelings happen less and less. CLAUDIU: Although it is true all this is experiential and the words can only describe it, it
is so much nicer when we can have our cake and eat it too, such that the words used are also more resilient and
robust in the face of an analytical taking-them-apart. It won’t matter much for those already with a firm
experiential basis (whether actually free or still a feeling being), nor for those feeling-beings who are more
intuitive in nature [e.g. the ~90% of the population that is not an “NT” type on the Myers-Briggs Type
Indicator], but it can perhaps benefit the more analytically-inclined among us [e.g. the ~10% of the population
that is an “NT” type, i.e. those of type INTJ/INTP/ENTJ/ENTP]. VINEETO: Ha, I didn’t even look up all those acronyms. But I remember when studying social sciences and psychology at university in my twenties, and after, I jumped at every possibility to figure out how to classify myself according to body-type, emotional or psychological make-up, even in the astrological category and many others. While discovering patters is what the human brain enjoys and is good at, to make certain patterns into ‘self’-classifications/ categorizations (make them a designated feature of one’s identity, like hanging a certificate on the wall) is not very practical when whittling away one’s identity. The human brain is, after all, malleable, else one would not be able to change human nature. Cheers Vineeto
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