(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Cross.Chrono on Discuss Actualism Forum VINEETO: Hi Cross.Crono, CROSS.CHRONO: I am finding all the writing as of late very inspiring! The emphasis on appreciation is very much a game changer. Like some others, I wasn’t paying attention to that word and how much up-levelling it can do to feeling good. All the way to feeling the sweetness! There was an experience that I had while trying it out. An experience that I only had once before when I was reading a particular story that Richard wrote. Firstly, it was Claudiu’s very clear post some time ago on trying it out for yourself that
made it happen. So thanks for the effort you put into your writing. I was actually feeling bad while reading that
post. But I wanted to try it out. So I set aside the reason for just a minute and felt good. Then I started thinking
about how it feels good to just feel good. I got a sense of ‘this is precious’. I continued thinking on it and it
turned into a ‘wow it’s amazing to be alive’. I’m not able to quite convey it with words, but it was so
amazing to just be alive that I thought ‘everyone deserves this’. It really made me think ‘could I really live
like this forever’? Then it occurred to me that this experience is actually a moment away at anytime I want. In
fact I can do it right now as I write this. And I know this may sound crazy, but instead of going fully into it, I
have been thinking every day if I should because of some objections that keep coming up. VINEETO: This is an excellent experiential report how the actualism can work in practice instantly. All that you needed was “I wanted to try it out” with the intent to succeed. And you discovered that “in fact I can do it right now”. So now you know experientially how to feel good “all the way to feeling the sweetness!” It is that from this vantage point of experiencing this moment that you can look in a dispassionate way at whatever objection is at the forefront of your mind preventing you to continue the feeling the sweetness. CROSS.CHRONO: My feeling bad stemmed from how I become in relationships. I’m not sure if it’s trauma or if it is how I am but I always become very insecure and afraid my partner will abandon me. It’s an all pervasive feeling and I can only describe it as hell. The worst feeling in the world. I’m currently in a relationship and it’s at that point despite my partner not having done anything for me to feel this way. My main objection then is that I will lose my partner if I feel good all the time. It’s like I have to be ever-vigilant. How will I have a relationship? The only thing that doesn’t send me spiralling into it is that I have this sense that I can feel good anytime I want to that’s stayed with me. All of this sounds insane as I write it actually. I’ll have to think on it more. VINEETO: What you are describing here is love. Naming the issue is the first step to be able to successfully contemplate it. Being in love invariable comes with both pining and possessiveness, to name but two, resulting in “an all pervasive feeling and I can only describe it as hell”.
Here he also describes how love inevitably fails –
And here is Richard’s collected description about both ‘Peter’s’ and ‘Vineeto’s’
experiences and investigative realisations during their time of being in love, which can give you some ideas how to
contemplate and investigate your own situation – Of course, you don’t have to talk it through with your partner unless she is willing, you can have the necessary realisations and actualizations unilaterally. After all, you said that “despite my partner not having done anything for me to feel this way”. The important thing is that you recognize that the sweet feeling of love and the “all pervasive feeling” of hell are not two different issues, they are the two sides of the same coin. When love is gone (which it inevitably will once you stop feeding it) the way is clear for recognizing your partner as a fellow human being and allow the resultant naivete and an exquisite intimacy to flourish. Hi Cross.Chrono, I appreciate your thoughtful response. [Vineeto]: It is that from this vantage point of experiencing this moment that you can look in a dispassionate way at whatever objection is at the forefront of your mind preventing you to continue the feeling the sweetness. CROSS.CHRONO: Perhaps that may be the issue. I keep trying to
look at it from a vantage point of being in the feeling. But when I’m out of it I ‘check’ if it’s there and
it can come back. But this ‘checking’ that I am doing may really be a perverse way of being these loving/hellish
feelings over and over again. It really drives home the ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’
fact. Because when I’m feeling the sweetness, there are really no issues at all. It’s like I’ve been playing
pretend. VINEETO: You probably know from experience how different it is when you look at some issue
from the vantage point of feeling good, even of feeling excellent. Then you can examine the trigger and look at your
previous feelings not only dispassionately but an also contemplate dianoetically
* [Vineeto]: What you are describing here is love. Naming the issue is the first step to be able to successfully contemplate it. CROSS.CHRONO: It’s funny that you call it that because I have been approaching looking at it as anything but that. Now that I think about it, perhaps there is a ‘truth’ that has been blocking the seeing of this. Basically it goes something like ‘love is not like that’ or ‘real love is not like that’ or ‘healthy love is not like that’. It’s further cemented when I read forums where everyone describes healthy ways of being in love and how it seems to be great and what not. Maybe there is, but I don’t know how anyone can describe it as so amazing to be honest. The one thing I can’t get past is how anyone can be in love without being possessive or being exclusive. So I keep thinking perhaps there is something wrong with me. VINEETO: Ha, there is nothing is wrong with *you* – as Claudiu already explained
below Hence love itself (the ideal of love) has never been questioned (until Richard). It was always considered to be the individual’s fault that it never delivered what it promised. The intrinsic promise of love is that it will dissolve the separation, which two identities automatically experience, yet by the very nature of love being within the human condition and arising of the instinctual passions, this promise can never be fulfilled.
Richard gave the breakdown of “The Chemistry of Love”
in his "Examen of the Invention of Heterosexuality"
The alternative is to “increasing naive intimacy, enjoyment and delight” as Claudiu
explained it so well below Feeling being ‘Grace’ had a gradation of five stages of intimacy –
Remember to have fun when you are inclined to explore it. CROSSCHRONO: It has been a while since I wrote as I’ve gone thru a roller coaster of feelings and have come to a more calm and stable place. Of course it had to do with love but it gave me the impetus to move forward. Seeing and experiencing constantly that it does not work in bringing about a personal and interpersonal peace. I’ve also been hesitant in writing as I don’t like to write when I’m feeling not so great but maybe that might help in getting out of it too. VINEETO: Hi CrossChrono, Welcome back. What an excellent and rich report about your discoveries and insights! CROSSCHRONO: After I wrote my previous response I had begun engaging in ‘nipping it in the bud’ of all the loving and related feelings that I came across. I started doing it as it seemed that was the only course of action. I had already seen and experienced that it brought much suffering. Due to this I started experiencing feelings of meaninglessness, desolation, and bleakness as far as the ‘eye’ can see. What it revealed was that love was a way to cover up my loneliness. ‘I’ created an imaginary version of another person based on a dream and how ‘I’ intuited them to be and then essentially pretended that ‘I’ could be in union with this imaginary ‘other’. An instinctual movement towards assuaging the essential loneliness. When I become vulnerable thru trust in love, I am hoping that this other person will reciprocate this state of vulnerability. But in the process, I am revealing my fundamental loneliness and aloneness. If this other does not match the dream of love, then I feel it more deeply than I have ever felt before. The whole process is illusionary. The other person that ‘I’ am dreaming of does not exist. They can never match the dream. And vice versa as well. A sad state of affairs. This is further compounded for me because it has occurred to me that many people actually ignore or pretend that the ‘bad’ side of love does not exist. People will tell me that ‘I’ am too focused on it. But I cannot ignore it because it’s always there. Something is off with the whole business of relating with other people. And it is from this, my genuine desire for peace springs forth. My desire so far has been to uncover everything I can so that it can be in plain view. I also feel a fear behind this of ‘who do I think I am’. Like an authority telling me to sit down and shut up. VINEETO: In order to successfully ‘nip in the bud’ it’s essential to have understood the underlying patterns of the occurring feelings you want to ‘nip’. Obviously there is still some remnant investment in love, which is not surprising, as it is considered the highly-prized cure-all for loneliness and the mess of the human condition in general. You have made some significant inroads into understanding love, especially knowing that it has a ‘bad’ side. The key ingredient for feeling-being ‘Vineeto’ was, when ‘she’ investigated the pining
aspect of love, ‘her’ childhood-inspired romantic dream of belonging to a man and therefrom having an iron-clad
identity as a woman You say “The other person that ‘I’ am dreaming of does not exist. They can never match the dream.” It goes further than that, love itself can never fulfil the dream it inherently promises – it’s an empty chimera and will never bridge the separation so longed for by the lonely isolated identities who fall for love’s glamorous promise. If this fact, that love will not solve your problem of aloneness and loneliness, is allowed to sink in, as an irrefutable fact, love will lose its appeal and you can regain your autonomy and dignity as a person in your own right – and simultaneous recognize your partner’s own autonomy and dignity. It also dispenses with pining and jealousy in one fell swoop. With autonomy and dignity restored you can then naively relate to your fellow human beings in an
increasingly intimate way, unilaterally. I know from experience how much a woman can appreciate intimacy, even though
she may not know that this is really what she is looking for when she says she wants love. You will find out yourself
when you proceed interacting with your partner in an intimate rather than loving way. CROSSCHRONO: Anyways, I continued this process and due to this desolation I thought my partner would also start feeling the same way. They did not as far as I know and I actually kind of preferred this way of being over being in love. But nonetheless something else triggered possessiveness when my partner was talking with another man. I started feeling jealous and it put me in a state of muddled thinking. I nipped that in the bud. But then my partner brought up wanting to hang out with this other man and their partner. This again triggered the same feelings. This time it caused much suffering and it took some time to claw my way back out. Talking with my partner helped and they confirmed that it had been my own reaction which was making things seem the way they were. So I asked myself if I am repressing something. I genuinely wanted to know if I was but I kept going over and over thru the same old feelings. Then it became clear there was a missing ingredient: intent. I realized that I would always run thru the same old feelings unless I consistently maintained
the intent to be happy and harmless. I realized that it had to be an overreaching intent that had to be weaved thru
my entire life for it to work and for me to not fall back thru the same ways of being. Some things I read on here and
AFT website gave me clues. I had to do my part in ‘reaching’ as much as I could towards the actual. There were
some clues in my everyday life as well. I would feel good when I had the genuine intent for it. The times that I did
not feel good was when doubt came thru and I was not being sincere. There was some reason or belief that was in the
way that prevented it from happening. I could not pretend to feel good because it intellectually made sense, I have
to genuinely want it. Otherwise the instinctual ways of being will easily override any endeavour. VINEETO: To have sincere intent is vital. I noticed an aspect in your report is about control, ‘me’ controlling ‘me’ to move into the direction ‘I’ think is right – and that approach is sudorific, at best. Even though the ingredient may be right, the outcome is still a serious enterprise of ‘you’ forcing yourself to be in a particular way. Sincerity will allow you to unlock your hidden-away-during-puberty naiveté More in the next section. CROSSCHRONO: Another clue that stuck out for me was the word ‘unilateral’. Richard writes that only unilateral action will do the trick. That means it is not dependent on others. I had the fear that I would lose my partner if I chose to just feel good. But thru the few times that I have chosen to be that way with her, it definitely was better in every way. In being that way, there was a freedom that love could never grant. I did not experience her thru my insecurities or other fears. She is a free person and another individual. Unlike love, this is a free intimacy and nothing like what my fears intuited it to be. In fact, I think love is a bondage and yet another way of being in thrall. Even writing that, I can feel Humanity shaking its finger at me. VINEETO: Yes, acting unilaterally is a very important clue. Richard reports when ‘he’ first realized that nobody was in charge of the world.
Hence you can do with your life as you choose (as long as you obey the local laws and social protocol) and it depends on every person’s unilateral action to bring about peace-on-earth. It does not require the cooperation of a single person ... let alone “Humanity”. So whenever “Humanity” is “shaking its finger at me” you know you are on the right track.
CROSSCHRONO: Then realizations had been hitting me back and forth for a bit. One thing that
just smacked me in the face was like ‘all I have to do is feel good’. And this is easy. Whatever comes, I will do
it feeling good. So I decided that I would not think about anything or do anything unless I was feeling good. This
worked for quite a few days. I had the longest stretch of feeling good that I’ve ever experienced in a long time.
Right around at the beginning of this I had another realization about being alive. It actually caught me by surprise.
I was taking a shower and I became aware instantly that this entire time it has been this moment. It sounds like
almost mundane. But quite literally, this entire time (forever) it has only been this moment. Even as I am writing
this the implications of this are churning in my mind. All the ‘past’, ‘present’, and ‘future’ don’t
have an actual existence. When I realized this, I became fascinated and I felt even more good automatically. So much
safety and security in this moment. What a relief that only this moment exists. And another realization came some
time after this one. Only I as this body can know that this moment exists. This one has been simmering for a little
while longer. I am allowing it to gestate. There were a few other stand out experiences of perhaps a similar nature. […] VINEETO: This is a serendipitous insight – only this flesh-and-blood body “can know that this moment exists”, and that now is the only moment you can actually experience. And given that this is the only moment you can actually experience, any time spent feeling bad is a waste of this precious actual moment. And with this experience comes the insight that there is “so much safety and security in this moment” – it is truly magical. Remember those valuable insights – they need actualizing for them to take effect in your life. CROSSCHRONO: I also had some insight into authority. I’ve been seeing that very clearly that no one has any idea what they are doing in regards to living happily and harmlessly. I had been reading up on social identity and saw that there’s a semblance of peace in the world but not actual peace. No one was acknowledging the root cause of why there has not been any peace in the world. They are doing anything but addressing it (the same as I had been). So there is a widespread insincerity. Everyone is playing pretend and I also had internalized this and pretended like everyone else. By choosing to feel good irregardless of circumstances, I sometimes feel I am standing up to all of Humanity. How dare I feel good while the world suffers (or something like that)? Yet I feel more authentic when I am feeling good than at any other time. It’s the doubt casted by my internalizing of Humanity’s many ways of being that pull me back every time. By choosing to be how Humanity is, I give up being authentic. Now I see all of this is because Humanity has not actually addressed the root cause of there not being any peace. VINEETO: It's excellent that you more and more recognize the insincerity in ‘humanity’s’ morals and ethics because that will let you it shrug off more easily when you feel that ‘humanity’ is shaking its finger at you. There really is no such thing as humanity, it is a collectively felt phantom – there are only flesh-and-blood human beings (albeit all subject to instinctual passions and the identity formed thereof). As such the feeling that humanity is pulling you back is felt as real (as in you should obey the moral and ethical rules) but it is not actual. “Humanity has not actually addressed the root cause of there not being any peace” because it cannot – only individuals humans can do that – and it is delicious to slip out from under ‘humanity’s’ internalized yoke and devote one’s life to something really worth-while that can result in the perfection of actuality becoming apparent. CROSSCHRONO: So I had a unique experience after that. Unique because I had not experienced
something like it before. So seeing as how Humanity does not know what it is doing, were there any real rules? Could
I just become actually free if I wanted to? I had been contemplating this at home and then when I was at work as
well. It was a particularly slow day at work so I just reflected on it more. As I was feeling somewhere between
neutral to good at the time, I thought of this moment and how it has been this moment this whole time. I became aware
of a ‘bigness’ or immensity. Not quite sure of how else to describe it. It grew and it was as if my awareness was
drifting into outer space without any central focus. My normal way of being I’d describe as ‘indolent’ in the
sense of I stayed the same fundamentally. But now I was electrified, invigorated, and exhilarated. It felt like
something was performing surgery in my head. As awareness ‘grew’, I saw all of ‘me’ as a point and felt the
sensation of it at my navel area. It reminded me of the ‘pale blue dot’. Except all of me was this pale blue dot.
I felt all of sorrow and was on the verge of tears but the tears would not come. I’m not quite sure why after that,
but I came back down to earth. I was back to normal and felt kind of frustrated after that. I felt frustrated that I
couldn’t allow it to proceed further. The following days I allowed myself to slip below neutral. Then I once again
gathered sufficient intent to feel good again. […] VINEETO: To me it sounds like a description of having made a connection with pure intent. The contrast to being normal can be quite overwhelming so your pulling back is a natural reaction. Let this awareness grow again via fascinated attention and reflective contemplation all the way to apperceptive awareness.
What an exciting adventure it is to be on the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom. I really enjoyed your whole report. VINEETO: In order to successfully ‘nip in the bud’ it’s essential to have understood the underlying patterns of the occurring feelings you want to ‘nip’. Obviously there is still some remnant investment in love, which is not surprising, as it is considered the highly-prized cure-all for loneliness and the mess of the human condition in general. CROSSCHRONO: Yes this was my understanding as well but I had not
been making any further headway in clearing it up completely so that it’s just second nature to not go in that
direction. I thought maybe I just had to actively nip it in the bud and that perhaps it was a habitual action in
going towards love. I’ve seen the underlying patterns too many times so I thought maybe I was just being crazy to
keep “investigating” it.
Perhaps I need to go further and ween myself as well. I had noticed that love and my relation to it plays into the male identity too. When I think about it, it feels like that to be successful in love also means being successful in society in general. Those who can outwardly show that they are successful in their relationships are seen as exemplars of knowing the secret to living a happy life. And I think that coupled with the psychological authority set in place and built upon since childhood serves to create a persistent doubt that “they” know something that I don’t. VINEETO: Hi CrossChrono, You are very welcome. I see you already discovered more to understand love and man-woman relating from an additional aspect – the identity of being a ‘man’ in society’s eyes. This “persistent doubt” is nothing other than your social conditioning you have been subject to from an early age – of course you feel “that “they” know something that I don’t”. However, if you look more closely at the individuals who make up ‘society’, it will become obvious to you that the ‘happy’ and “successful in their relationships” façade is just that. Just study women’s magazines, watch the news, observe your neighbours and workmates, and you find that what is presented in Hollywood movies is not the whole picture. Here, for instance, are ‘Peter’s’ observation from his Journal – (Peter’s Journal, ‘Foreword’) You can find more on this topic in Peter’s Selected Writings on Living Together. The best way to explore this topic is by approaching it in a naïve way, by putting aside preconceived sophisticated ideas of what you should be like as a man or as a partner, and start exploring afresh what it is like to interact with a fellow human being who happens to be a female. You might even discover what you have in common and also what the “battle of the sexes”, the notion of a woman’s camp and a man’s camp, prevents you from finding out. With the sincere, and unilateral, intent to be happy and harmless a lot can be explored in a friendly fashion (which includes being friendly with yourself). CROSSCHRONO: I also find interesting that in one of the articles posted by Richard that lust is also described as love (lust, attraction, attachment). But most often, it is the attraction and attachment parts that are described as love. Perhaps an attempt to separate out the ‘bad’ from the ‘good’. I feel lust and attraction more often than attachment. At one point I sat with lust and attraction and it became so strong that it seemed like an overpowering desire. In the middle it felt like it was more about sexual conquest than anything to do with caring for another person. I’ve had many occasions before when I am out at a social setting with a woman I liked that I was actually in a competition in the jungle with other men trying to “win” and be better so that I may prove myself worthy of being with this woman. Even further than that it seems like it’s about vying for status everywhere I go. And behind it all then must be this instinctual desire for power. When I felt it, it also made me a little embarrassed that I had these feelings. VINEETO: Ha, it’s not easy to admit that sexual desire is happening, neither socially nor privately, so it is more coyly labelled ‘attraction’ or ‘beauty’ or ‘appeal’. It is exactly as you describe it, the law of the “jungle” where the raw instinctual passions are dictating one’s feelings and behaviour. It is advantageous that you felt “a little embarrassed” – this is the very feeling which can open the door to naiveté. Try it out, it is delicious once you overcome your first hesitation to feeling a bit foolish. CROSSCHRONO: Another aspect that may be further compounding the suffering of love for me is perhaps related to all of this. It’s tied to the male identity. Basically, if I fail at love then it means I’m a failure of society in general. Putting all of this together then it seems like it’s about “winning” and conquest rather than about any sort of peace or intimacy. Then my partner also has her own identity of what it is to be a woman. Both of this male and female identity seem to be at odds with one another. It feels like then to abandon this male identity means to abandon how I relate with women as well. This leaves that feeling of loneliness and aloneness again. […] VINEETO: Don’t give up so easily. It’s a fascinating adventure when one is involved in discovering the details of what makes up a man’s identity, and the more you discover the more it will fall away applying fascinated attention to those details. What remains is being more what you are, a fellow human being, and as I said to you before, I know from personal experience how much a woman can appreciate intimacy just as much as men do, even though she may not know that this is really what she is looking for when she says she wants love. * VINEETO: To have sincere intent is vital. I noticed an aspect in your report is about control, ‘me’ controlling ‘me’ to move into the direction ‘I’ think is right – and that approach is sudorific, at best. Even though the ingredient may be right, the outcome is still a serious enterprise of ‘you’ forcing yourself to be in a particular way. CROSSCHRONO: It’s interesting that you do notice that control
aspect in the report as it’s a problem that I know I have struggled with for a long time. I have a tendency to
break myself into two with one “working on” the other. It feels like it’s the only way I can
“do” anything. In the beginning, even looking at feelings created a split. ‘I’ would try to make myself
feel something else and it would create really great discomfort that I could feel in my body. It also highlights a
fundamental confusion within ‘me’. VINEETO: Indeed, forcing or manipulating yourself to feel something you don’t feel is bound to fail. Recognize that ‘I’ am my feelings, in contrast to I have feelings which I want to control/ manoeuvre. Recognizing and acknowledging that you are your feelings you discover that you do have a choice to be felicitous and innocuous feelings (and naiveté). Also, do not attempt to investigate any problems or issues unless you are at least feeling good, if not better. Unless the actualism method is fun and easy, fascinating and adventurous, you are missing one or more of the above-mentioned vital ingredients, which can easily be corrected.
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