VINEETO: Hi,

[Vineeto]: My aim in actualism has never been to be free from fear only, but to become free from my malicious and sorrowful feelings and behaviour – and this enterprise initially generated a lot of fear. As I questioned my dearly held beliefs, my spiritual loyalty, my friendships, my role as a worker, as a woman, as a part of a social group – in short my entire social conditioning – the fear sometimes seemed completely overwhelming.

This fear I overcame by simply doing what I had decided to do despite my fears. This is not confronting the feeling of fear itself but simply setting oneself a goal in life and getting on with doing it. Vineeto to Respondent, 13.12.2001

RESPONDENT: This seems in contradiction to what you said above and this is more in line with what I was talking about by confronting my fears. This is what I meant by not running from it.

VINEETO: It all depends what is your goal. If you want to be happy and harmless then stopping doing whatever it is that you are doing that is triggering your fearful feelings is an eminently sensible thing to do. However, if your aim is to be fearless, then you will choose to face dangers, battle it out and take all the risks you see fit in order to achieve your goal. Then, of course, you would see reducing risks by avoiding fearful situations as merely ‘running from it’.

RESPONDENT: If I back away from every situation that triggers fear then fear will still be lurking and waiting to come out. I don’t see how that will eliminate it.

VINEETO: Yet I never suggested to ‘back away from every situation that triggers fear’? I have made a clear distinction between stopping doing things that make no sense and ‘doing what I had decided to do despite my fears’, namely become free from malice and sorrow. Also, as an actualist I never aim to eliminate my fears, I aim to eliminate ‘me’, the psychological/psychic entity that arises out of the instinctual passions, specifically fear, aggression, nurture and desire.

My reports of how I have virtually eliminated the effects of the instinctual passions in my daily life are seemingly not of interest to you because you want to be fearless while I want ‘self’-immolate – two diametrically opposite goals.

RESPONDENT: I wouldn’t be on this list if I backed away from any uncomfortable situation for I really don’t belong on a religious site like this and it is very uncomfortable trying to discuss something with you. However, I intently want to learn how the instinctual passions are operating as ‘me’ and I don’t know any other place to discuss it. I am reducing risks in the current situation because it seems like the only sensible thing to do as I can’t sleep otherwise so I will see how this plays out.

VINEETO: There is no need at all to expose yourself to the ‘uncomfortable situation’ ‘to discuss something’ with me because all information about ‘how the instinctual passions are operating as ‘me’’ is freely available on the Actual Freedom Trust website.

I could tell you how I got rid of feeling uncomfortable in relation to other people but you have made clear in a post to No 21 that you don’t want to know ‘what an actualist would do’ in such a situation, so I won’t. Vis:

[Respondent]: One thing you can look at is the last post Vineeto sent me. She knows I am not an Actualist yet keeps hammering Actualism and what an Actualist would do continuously. No 16 to No 21, Re: Defensiveness, 6.8.2003

RESPONDENT: I have an opportunity to watch the nurture side of it as a new situation has arisen. I am attracted to my maid as she is 20 yrs younger than me and cute. She has turned me down for a date numerous times so I quit asking. Now she has asked me out. All I really want is to have sex with her without any obligations. I really don’t even need sex with her but this is instinctual programming that is playing out.

VINEETO: I have never suggested that you ‘back away from this situation’ because I never heard of this ‘new situation’. This is what I said in the original post –

[Vineeto]: The way I tackled fear was firstly to be sensible in practical situations thereby reducing the risk of actual danger or loss, which served to stop fuelling the fires of passion. Then I set about enquiring into the reasons that lay behind my various fears. My aim in actualism has never been to be free from fear only, but to become free from my malicious and sorrowful feelings and behaviour – and this enterprise initially generated a lot of fear. As I questioned my dearly held beliefs, my spiritual loyalty, my friendships, my role as a worker, as a woman, as a part of a social group – in short my entire social conditioning – the fear sometimes seemed completely overwhelming.

This fear I overcame by simply doing what I had decided to do despite my fears. This is not confronting the feeling of fear itself but simply setting oneself a goal in life and getting on with doing it. This way I did something useful with the fear by turning the feeling of fear into the thrill of discovery. I also did a similar thing with desire – I used it as the desire to succeed in my newfound life’s aim. Nurture was similarly utilized in wanting to be part of the ending to human suffering, and aggression was channelled into a quiet stubbornness and determination to succeed.

To only seek to become fearless is in itself a selfish aim and only serves to enhance and embellish the ‘self’, the lost, lonely and cunning entity inside this body. Those who pursue fearlessness without also investigating their aggression, nurture and desire often succeed in attaining a self-enhancing and self-aggrandizing altered state of consciousness, known in the East as Satori, or if the state becomes permanent, spiritual enlightenment. Vineeto to Respondent, 13.12.2001

You have picked half a sentence from what I am saying, and then generalized it to apply to every situation of your life and then proceeded to accuse me of suggesting the wrong option – this is called a straw-man argument.

If you don’t want to know ‘what an actualist would do’, as you said to No 21, then asking ‘What’s missing?’ on the actualist mailing list is a no-brainer. ‘Tis no wonder you keep misconstruing what I say.

15.8.2003

VINEETO: You wrote in response to my quote from a previous conversation –

[Vineeto]: My aim in actualism has never been to be free from fear only, but to become free from my malicious and sorrowful feelings and behaviour – and this enterprise initially generated a lot of fear. As I questioned my dearly held beliefs, my spiritual loyalty, my friendships, my role as a worker, as a woman, as a part of a social group – in short my entire social conditioning – the fear sometimes seemed completely overwhelming.

This fear I overcame by simply doing what I had decided to do despite my fears. This is not confronting the feeling of fear itself but simply setting oneself a goal in life and getting on with doing it. Vineeto to No 16 13.12.2001

RESPONDENT: This seems in contradiction to what you said above and this is more in line with what I was talking about by confronting my fears. This is what I meant by not running from it.

VINEETO: It all depends what is your goal. If you want to be happy and harmless then stopping doing whatever it is that you are doing that is triggering your fearful feelings is an eminently sensible thing to do. However, if your aim is to be fearless, then you will choose to face dangers, battle it out and take all the risks you see fit in order to achieve your goal. Then, of course, you would see reducing risks by avoiding fearful situations as merely ‘running from it’.

RESPONDENT: I am confused by this statement and the one below. They seem to be getting close to my inquiry but still seem contradictory. Shouldn’t this statement read stop doing what is ‘not sensible’ that is triggering your fearful feelings instead of implying to stop doing everything that is triggering your fearful feelings.

VINEETO: There are three worlds – the real world, the spiritual world and the actual world. Respectively, there are three ways one can choose to live one’s life – the traditional approaches, materialism and/or spiritualism or the new-to-history, actualism.

First you determine what is your goal in life. Then you determine what approach will be most likely to help you achieve your goal. Then you either follow materialism or use your spiritual method or begin to apply the actualism method.

If you take what I write as an actualist and then try to apply it to the materialistic or spiritualistic goals of becoming rich or feeling oneself to be fearless, then naturally you will be confused – because the actualism method does not work within those parameters, it only applies to the goal of being happy and harmless.

Given that you said you don’t want to know ‘what an actualist would do’ –

[Respondent]: One thing you can look at is the last post Vineeto sent me. She knows I am not an Actualist yet keeps hammering Actualism and what an Actualist would do continuously. Respondent to No 21, Re: Defensiveness, 6.8.2003

– but instead –

[Respondent]: ‘I’ want to keep doing what I am doing without the fear and worry. Iow, I want to have my cake and eat it too. [endquote].

– t’is no wonder you are confused.

*

RESPONDENT: If I back away from every situation that triggers fear then fear will still be lurking and waiting to come out. I don’t see how that will eliminate it.

VINEETO: Yet I never suggested to ‘back away from every situation that triggers fear’?

RESPONDENT: Yet this seems to be exactly what you are saying above which I find confusing.

VINEETO: The confusion is all of your own making. Let me post the whole sequence of this conversation –

[Respondent]: The point is that there is substantial risk. It looks like confronting fear itself is the way to overcome fear and not to avoid situations that cause fear.

[Vineeto]: It is, of course, entirely your choice and your business how you are assessing the odds – I was simply reporting the general figures of stock market gambling which are evaluated at 75% or more losers compared to 25% or less winners.

As for ‘confronting fear’ – people have tried for centuries to tackle their fear of physical danger by confronting it and many of the early pioneers discovered remote and dangerous areas of the planet only because they confronted their fears and left home despite their fears. Nowadays, in the absence of sufficient real physical dangers and explorations, highly dangerous adventure sports are promoted for people to satisfy their need of boosting their adrenalin and their ego – activities such as car and motorbike racing, Everest climbing for tourists, wild water rafting, cave diving, meeting man-eating sharks in plain dive suits, parachute and bungee jumping, etc., etc. There are also those who seek the same rush from other less physically dangerous activities such as playing video games, gambling or watching other people performing dangerous or violent activities.

What I am saying is that the idea of confronting one’s fears is nothing new, it is part and parcel of the human condition and has not resulted in any change towards more benevolence and happiness in human behaviour. People who confront their fear are in no way less malicious or less sorrowful despite the sometimes-enormous effort and time they invest trying to get rid of their fear. In your specific case you seem to want to tackle fear with more risk-taking, i.e. with greater desire, whereas in my experience it is the desire to ‘hit a homerun’ as you say further down, that generates the fear of loss in the first place.

The way I tackled fear was firstly to be sensible in practical situations thereby reducing the risk of actual danger or loss, which served to stop fuelling the fires of passion. Then I set about enquiring into the reasons that lay behind my various fears. My aim in actualism has never been to be free from fear only, but to become free from my malicious and sorrowful feelings and behaviour – and this enterprise initially generated a lot of fear. As I questioned my dearly held beliefs, my spiritual loyalty, my friendships, my role as a worker, as a woman, as a part of a social group – in short my entire social conditioning – the fear sometimes seemed completely overwhelming.

This fear I overcame by simply doing what I had decided to do despite my fears. This is not confronting the feeling of fear itself but simply setting oneself a goal in life and getting on with doing it. This way I did something useful with the fear by turning the feeling of fear into the thrill of discovery. I also did a similar thing with desire – I used it as the desire to succeed in my newfound life’s aim. Nurture was similarly utilized in wanting to be part of the ending to human suffering, and aggression was channelled into a quiet stubbornness and determination to succeed.

To only seek to become fearless is in itself a selfish aim and only serves to enhance and embellish the ‘self’, the lost, lonely and cunning entity inside this body. Those who pursue fearlessness without also investigating their aggression, nurture and desire often succeed in attaining a self-enhancing and self-aggrandizing altered state of consciousness, known in the East as Satori, or if the state becomes permanent, spiritual enlightenment. Vineeto to Respondent, 13.12.2001

[Respondent]: This seems in contradiction to what you said above and this is more in line with what I was talking about by confronting my fears. This is what I meant by not running from it.

[Vineeto]: It all depends what is your goal. If you want to be happy and harmless then stopping doing whatever it is that you are doing that is triggering your fearful feelings is an eminently sensible thing to do. However, if your aim is to be fearless, then you will choose to face dangers, battle it out and take all the risks you see fit in order to achieve your goal. Then, of course, you would see reducing risks by avoiding fearful situations as merely ‘running from it’. Vineeto to Respondent, 3.8.2003 [emphasis added]

I fail to see how you come to the conclusion that I suggested to ‘back away from every situation that triggers fear’.

There is one simple way of avoiding future confusions – first you determine your goal. Then you determine what approach will be most likely to help you achieve your goal. Only then you begin to apply your chosen method. To pick bits and pieces from actualism and then try to apply it to materialistic or spiritualistic goals of becoming rich or feeling oneself to be fearless is not only confusing – it does not work.

In short, put the horse before the cart and don’t mix apples and oranges. Then you do your own thinking and choosing, according to your own chosen direction – either materialism or spiritualism or actualism.

*

VINEETO: I have made a clear distinction between stopping doing things that make no sense and ‘doing what I had decided to do despite my fears’, namely become free from malice and sorrow.

RESPONDENT: Ok, this does make more sense. The key here seems to be in determining what makes no sense and stopping that but continuing to do what is sensible despite my fears. How does one always determine what is sensible? I know sometimes what seems sensible turns out to not be sensible.

VINEETO: A materialist or a spiritualist considers many actions to be ‘sensible’ or appropriate to their aims and yet these very same actions are eminently silly to an actualist – because actualism lies 180 degrees opposite to both materialism and spiritualism.

*

VINEETO: Also, as an actualist I never aim to eliminate my fears, I aim to eliminate ‘me’, the psychological/psychic entity that arises out of the instinctual passions, specifically fear, aggression, nurture and desire.

RESPONDENT: I am also confused by this because my fears, aggression, nurture and desire are ‘me’ so if I eliminate these instinctual passions I am eliminating ‘me’. Iow, how can I eliminate ‘me’ without aiming to eliminate the instinctual passions?

VINEETO: No 21 said it well in his latest post to No 23 –

[Respondent No 21]: … the nature of my ‘sapwood’ [of the human condition] was not revealed until I had thoroughly investigated the ‘bark and I suspect I haven’t even gotten close to the ‘heartwood’ yet’ No 21, Holly(hard)wood, 14.8.2003

In other words, the nature of the instinctual passions is not revealed until you have peeled away sufficient of your social identity in order that your instinctual passions can rise to the surface and be clearly seen and experienced for what they are. And the ‘anti-actualist’ feelings that are part of your social identity would appear to be the first that need to be peeled away, if you at all want to experientially understand what role the instinctual passions play in perpetuating the human condition of malice and sorrow.

31.8.2003

RESPONDENT: I am also confused by this because my fears, aggression, nurture and desire are ‘me’ so if I eliminate these instinctual passions I am eliminating ‘me’. Iow, how can I eliminate ‘me’ without aiming to eliminate the instinctual passions?

VINEETO: In other words, the nature of the instinctual passions is not revealed until you have peeled away sufficient of your social identity in order that your instinctual passions can rise to the surface and be clearly seen and experienced for what they are. And the ‘anti-actualist’ feelings that are part of your social identity would appear to be the first that need to be peeled away, if you at all want to experientially understand what role the instinctual passions play in perpetuating the human condition of malice and sorrow.

RESPONDENT: I don’t have anti-actualist feelings per-se because I have talked to Richard extensively and never had any anti-actualist feelings when talking to him. It is only when I have come to this list and talked to you that ‘anti’ feelings have come up so I would say that my feelings are anti-Vineeto and the more I talk to you the worse it gets.

VINEETO: C’est la vie, I guess … or shall I say ‘c’est votre vie’.

As for never having ‘any anti-actualist feelings when talking to’ Richard, this earlier conversation may refresh your memory –

VINEETO: I have had a long break from writing, initiated by reformatting my computer when I installed Windows XP. In the meantime my writing on the list has taken a backseat.

You wrote in response to my last post –

RESPONDENT: For example, I have a pretty good experiential understanding of the role that instinctual passions play in perpetuating the human condition and here above you have declared that I don’t understand it at all. I think your lack of integrity and your attitude towards me has a lot to do with it. Anyway, I don’t wish to try and talk to you anymore.

VINEETO: The reason why you seem to fail to understand how I deal with fear is because actualism has a unique approach to dealing with the instinctual passions, in this case the instinctual passion of fear. Your interest and approach seems to be to come to an intellectual understanding of the instinctual passions, in particular fear, in order that ‘you’ can do what ‘you’ want to do without being bothered by the instinctual passions, whereas the aim in actualism is to eliminate one’s social and instinctual identity – and because one’s identity is the source and fuel for sustaining the instinctual passions they will then collapse of their own accord.

The experiential knowledge that I have gained both from numerous pure consciousness experiences and from applying the actualism method over several years is that the instinctual passions only become less powerful if the identity is weakened, i.e. attempting to remove the instinctual passions while not paying attention to the very identity that sustains them will only result in frustration, denial or dissociation. In other words, actualism works by slowly whittling away at the root cause of the instinctual passions, not by tinkering with the effect. For that reason I don’t need to know the exact details of the mechanics of the survival instincts, details which even biologist don’t agree upon. I only need to pay attention to my passionate identity in action and by bringing it out into the open my identity inevitably weakens and as a consequence the instinctual passions are progressively dis-empowered.

RESPONDENT: Ok, that makes sense. Just keep working on the identity.

VINEETO: A while ago No 21 posted to the list a link (http://members.nyas.org/events/conference/conf_02_0926.html) to an article entitled ‘The Self: From Soul to Brain’. The article describes in detail some aspects of one’s social identity, which you might find useful as it is written from a psychological perspective and not an actualist perspective.

RESPONDENT: I guess I am anti-authority which comes up when I talk to you. Thanks for pushing my buttons.

VINEETO: I am not at all interested in pushing your buttons, because sorting out the sore spots of your identity is entirely your business. When you write to an actualist mailing list and feel your buttons pushed when you are presented with facts and expertise in how to become free from malice and sorrow then this is indeed a reaction of one’s anti-authoritarian social identity.

Before I came across actualism I had plenty of trouble with my rebellious anti-authority attitude – apart from being attracted to the words of anti-authority worshipping snake oil sellers this highly emotional attitude also prevented me from living in peace and harmony with my fellow human beings.

As I explored my issues about authority, I came to understand that the whole issue has been inextricably intertwined with my desire to pass on the job of living my life to others who then became the admired or feared authority figures. It was my hope for shortcuts, for help of the powerful ones that had fuelled and maintained my debilitating reliance upon, or mindless rebellion against, authority. I desired my father’s money and approval, my boyfriend’s promise of love and security, my girlfriend’s sympathy and support, my Master’s psychic Power, Compassion and Grace, God’s miracles, Mother Nature’s Intelligence, the Supreme Power of the Eternal Unknown, etc.

In order to break free of all of these issues about authority I first had to acknowledge and then experience that I was utterly on my own – nobody, but nobody could do anything for me, change me, give me happiness, redeem me from my fear, malice and sorrow or fulfil my desires. It is all up to me. Now I am free to learn from whomever I find worthy of emulating or learning from, whilst remaining perfectly autonomous.

*

VINEETO: On 14.9.2003 you asked No 21 a couple of questions that intrigued me.

[Respondent No 21]: As far as whether you have the technique right, I’m almost loathe to offer advice on this as I don’t consider myself an expert in ‘the technique’. With that disclaimer, what has worked for me thus far is to make sure I fully investigate any emotions or passions before attempting to pay extra attention to the senses, to get to the excellence experience or on to a PCE.

First I have to focus inwards on whatever is bothering me... only after that can I fully appreciate the present moment. Then if I fully experience my senses, and focus on this moment right now I tend to find myself in an excellence experience. After that, it seems to be when I contemplate how I am experiencing this moment that I find myself in the PCE, with apperceptive awareness. I am not 100% sure if one can be in the PCE without apperceptive awareness, or vice versa. If anyone else has any understanding of this please ‘enlighten’ me :) [endquote].

RESPONDENT: I’m interested in what you said here about ‘what has worked for me thus far is to make sure I fully investigate any emotions or passions’. Can you explain exactly what you mean by ‘fully investigate’ with an example if possible?

VINEETO: I don’t know how familiar you are with the Actual Freedom website but there are about 22 pages of correspondence in The Actual Freedom Trust Library under the topic of ‘How to Become Free from the Human Condition’ describing in detail how to ‘fully investigate’ one’s psyche in action. Peter also wrote an excellent description of how he investigated an instance of frustration and aggression that might be of interest to you.

RESPONDENT: I think I have fully investigated emotions and passions but am still wondering what’s missing if anything.

VINEETO: Given that you said to me ‘I am anti-authority’ which is an emotion arising from one’s social identity, there may be the possibility that other emotions and beliefs are still waiting to be investigated. You also said ‘thanks for pushing my buttons’ and ‘buttons’ usually stand for one’s beliefs and feelings that are being challenged.

It is only a guess but one of these may be the belief that you already have ‘fully investigated emotions and passions’.

Richard puts it this way on the opening page of his website –

Richard: The instinctual passions are the very energy source of the rudimentary animal self ... the base consciousness of ‘self’ and ‘other’ that all sentient beings have. The human animal – with its unique ability to be aware of its own death – transforms this ‘reptilian brain’ rudimentary core of ‘being’ (an animal ‘self’) into being a feeling ‘me’ (as soul in the heart) and the ‘feeler’ then infiltrates into thought to become the ‘thinker’ ... a thinking ‘I’ (as ego in the head). No other animal can do this. That this process is aided and abetted by the human beings who were already on this planet when one was born – which is conditioning and programming and is part and parcel of the socialising process – is but the tip of the ice-burg and not the main issue at all. All the different types of conditioning are well-meant endeavours by countless peoples over countless aeons to seek to curb the instinctual passions. Now, while most people paddle around on the surface and re-arrange the conditioning to ease their lot somewhat, some people – seeking to be free of all human conditioning – fondly imagine that by putting on a face-mask and snorkel that they have gone deep-sea diving with a scuba outfit ... deep into the human condition.

They have not ... they have gone deep only into the human conditioning. Richard, The Third Alternative

RESPONDENT: I can induce an excellent experience by focusing on the senses as you say and I have had pce’s although I don’t particularly need or want to have those experiences any longer.

VINEETO: Your definition of ‘pce’s’ seems to differ from a pure consciousness experience described in The Actual Freedom Trust writings, a PCE being a temporary glimpse of the actual freedom from the human condition that Richard is living day by day. Whenever I experience the stunning luminosity and perfection of the actual world in a ‘self’-less experience, I am all the more inspired and determined to do whatever it takes to live this experience 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

If you remember a ‘self’-less PCE as it is described on the Actual Freedom Trust website, I fail to understand how you can possibly say that you ‘don’t particularly need or want to have those experiences any longer’, given that in a PCE the meaning of life is readily apparent. Are you saying that you have resigned to second best?

RESPONDENT: I am trying to see if I have ‘fully investigated’ any emotions or passions or if there is something I am overlooking. I am quite sure that I have fully investigated beliefs but am still wondering what’s missing.

VINEETO: Given that you say you ‘have had pce’s although I don’t particularly need or want to have those experiences any longer’, then what is the purpose of your wanting to fully investigate any emotions or passions? What is the yardstick of your investigation by which to determine your success or failure?

If you don’t have the aim to live the perfection one glimpses in a pure consciousness experience, then whatever you are looking for is not to be found on this list.

7.11.2003

RESPONDENT:

Richard: All sentient beings, to a greater or lesser extent, are connected via a psychic web ... a network of energies or currents that range from ‘good’ to ‘bad’. Feeling threatened or intimidated can result from the obvious cues – the offering of physical violence and/or verbal violence – or from the less obvious ... ‘vibe’ violence (to use a ‘60’s term) and/or psychic violence. Similarly, feeling accepted can occur via the same signals or intimations. Power trips – coercion or manipulation of any kind – whether for ‘good’ or ‘bad’ purposes, are all psychic at root ... the psychic currents are the most effective power plays for they are the most insidious (charisma, for example). Richard, The Actual Freedom Trust Mailing List, No 27, 6.11.2002

VINEETO: I didn’t want to tell you, but since you have been so persistent I will let you in on the secret. There are regular out-of-body group meetings with members of the Actual Freedom mailing list each week where we come together in a sacred hall, worship Richard, chant hymns such as ‘Freedom, Freedom, from the Human Condition’ and ‘Happy, Happy, Happy and Harmless’ and at the end of the gathering slaughter a one-eyed one-horned flying purple people-eater which symbolizes the instinctual passions in everybody. The holy smoke of the burning of this wild animal is then spread onto everyone as a blessing to be protected for the rest of the week until the next disembodied ritual meeting.

We have never invited you to those gathering for all subscribed members of the mailing list because you were so insistent that you don’t want to belong but you must have picked it up via the psychic web anyway.

Makes sense?

10.11.2003

VINEETO to No 47: Taking people’s word’s at face value has nothing to do with trust or mistrust, but is a matter of a simple and straight-forward way to communicate. A ‘hidden double meaning’ is almost always an emotionally charged meaning and trying to second-guess what this is in any situation does nothing to enhance sensible communication. Nowadays I always assume that if people find it important that I take notice of any ‘hidden’ meaning then they will tell me – it is not my responsibility to discern what another is trying to convey through unmentioned hints and allusions.

As for being ‘distrustful of the words of some’ – the good news for me was that by examining and understanding my own social and instinctual identity I had less and less reason to fear that people would emotionally hurt me with insinuations or outright sarcasm – identity-slashing intimations from others now rarely reach a target.

RESPONDENT: Understood. My problem is that I sometimes forget to focus on the content because of distractions of how it is conveyed.