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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Kuba on Discuss Actualism Forum
KUBA: There was 2 more things that came of all this. Firstly it does look like something clicked, because later on when I read back that post, and I read the part where I still believed it was some noble “inspiring through excellence” I had very much this sense of “how could I have been such a fool to believe this”. But then there has been this other feeling pop up, this one Andrew knows well. That sometime after, like an attack out of nowhere, this feeling of “what on earth have I just written, what if I am completely wrong, off by a mile. Have I just made an utter fool of myself, have I just demonstrated my complete lack of understanding of the actualism method” etc. I know this feeling well because I have experienced it many times writing so much, and I guess so far I have kind of accepted it as par for the course of looking to expose ‘myself’. But really I would much rather be without it. Of course I will be wrong about many things yet to come but why does it have to be such a drama every time? This one has dogged me for a while now and would certainly like to get to the bottom of it. 
VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Well, fact is that you have “just demonstrated my complete lack of understanding of the actualism method” and it hurts your pride of being an ‘accomplished actualist’. If it was sincerity, which moved you to reveal that fact (and not just an accidental ‘blunder’) then you can use this opportunity to clear the workbench and start afresh. You can also take note that this kind of pride-knocking sincerity puts you on the right track towards naiveté because being naïve is often accompanied by feeling foolish at the start – especially when pride holds a cherished and dominant position in one’s modus operandi –
First a quote to clarify the terms associated with pride and its opposites –
Here Richard explains at length why pride and humility play such an important role in the human condition – and upon experiential investigation you eventually discover that they are both superfluous and silly to maintain –
As such, in this situation, don’t just focus on the bad feeling – embarrassment, shame or humiliation – but use it as an indicator for the ‘good’ feeling of pride operating and recognize that it is pride, which stands in the way of you being more and more naïve, unsophisticated and ingenuous. * KUBA: It looks like this is all beginning to outline the aspect of ‘me’ which is the culprit. I have written about ‘my’ narcissism before, but this is not quite it, maybe something like a vanity, the fact that ‘I’ derive ‘my’ good feelings from sitting atop some elevated position, which of course means there is always the fear of falling from the prideful place, the shame of not living up to a standard etc. There has always been a yearning to be free from this, to simply be a fellow human being, without the need to prove anything or to fear loosing some ‘position’. What I see now is that this desire for excellence is actually underpinned by self-centricity, it’s like what Srinath wrote, that ‘I’ don’t care about the issues themselves, rather it is ‘I’ who needs to be verified and affirmed. I see what Richard meant now when he wrote that “pride and humility are standing in the way of ceasing all self-centred activity”. And the way I see it now is that it is for nothing ultimately, that ‘I’ make everything about ‘me’ for no justifiable reason at all, only to affirm ‘myself’. As Richard said ‘I’ have arrogated responsibility with demonstrably disastrous consequences. And of course this is what ‘I’ do, as ‘I’ am a scared, lost, lonely and cunning psychic entity, that is why ‘I’
self-centrically turn everything into a tool to re-affirm ‘myself’, to gain some ‘security’ about ‘my’ existence. VINEETO: I wrote at the end of my last post to you –
Please don’t make the mistake of regarding the striving for excellence solely as a ‘self’-centric activity and decide to
shun aspiring for excellence altogether (like “more than a few take this to be a general ‘rule of thumb’ applicable to all
the affective feelings inclusive of the felicitous and innocuous affections” (see Why do you think Richard aspired to and succeeded in being a master of words, which can touch the sensitive reader to experience for themselves what he writes about, looking for new words, more precise descriptions for his reports and explanations, perfecting his writing style, responding to feed-back and making his writing public so prolifically? Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Last night I was napping and in that “in between” sleep state I kept experiencing these waves of perfection, to be more precise it was re-memorating that perfection is already here. When that perfection was being experienced it was like “of course this is how life actually is” and then it was as if it all became a fading memory again, and then it would come again to be experienced as undeniably actual. When I woke up I had those words on my mind “what if all ‘I’ know and all ‘I’ am is in fact false”, because that perfection is so undeniable and yet when ‘I’ take centre stage again it becomes just a memory, no longer actual. This shuttling from ‘me’ living in pathos and then to perfection being actual with no ‘me’ in sight is like some case of dementia… This got me contemplating on the fact that indeed ‘me’ and actuality do not mix, this is the point which took a very long time to firstly discover and then for it to sink in. That ‘I’ am a psychological and psychic ‘entity’ existing in ‘my’ self-sustained reality, that both ‘me’ and reality disappear for actuality to become apparent. Later on I was wondering about how to proceed towards the actual, towards the world which ‘I’ know exists and yet which ‘I’ can never enter. It’s clear that it is the end of ‘me’ and everything which is ‘mine’, both the dream and the dreamer have to disappear. I had this thought that it would take a total commitment and dedication to allowing that which is not of ‘me’. That the price of entry into actuality is ‘my’ very ‘self’. That last point seems to be where I am currently, balancing on the edge where it is either leaving behind what is ‘mine’ in order to allow perfection or remaining as ‘me’ in pathos. There is a certain ‘stickiness’ which is no more, which I take as a good sign. Because before to contemplate leaving behind what is ‘mine’ would trigger the most severe case of holding on, whereas now it is like allowing ‘myself’ to be washed away. But I realise that ‘I’ cannot wash ‘myself’ away, ‘I’ can only allow it to happen to ‘me’. ‘I’ cannot
possibly “do the deed” because such an action would only cement ‘my’ existence further. So it is an action of allowing, of giving permission,
whilst knowing full well what is entailed. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Whenever you find wrestling yourself (“like some case of dementia”) remember that in this pioneering enterprise ‘you’ are your closest ally. When you, in the endeavour to bring all of ‘you’ on board to agree to ‘your’ demise, become so friendly, so intimate with yourself that you eventually viscerally reveal your deepest yearning, which is to shed this ongoing burden to be a ‘controller’, a life-preserver, a bodyguard, and to go into oblivion instead. It is a relief to be able to even admit that this secret exists, and instead of a ‘demented’ outcast you become the closest ally. I wrote about this before –
Here is more confirmation how important it is to embrace ‘me’ as an ally –
And here is why –
You see, when your intent to be actually free and you, the identity, agree, the way is open for altruistic ‘self’-immolation to happen.
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So I woke up today experiencing this (to borrow Richard’s words) oh-so familiar flavour, this one of a kind magical-enchanted flavour. I don’t know if this flavour is what naiveté is or if it is the flavour of pure intent, I guess it’s both really. It’s a flavour which is completely absent in reality, hence reality is dull, empty, static, meaningless etc. Whereas this flavour is like a missing component is added to the very fabric of life itself, where even when doing nothing life is experienced as a magical-enchanted escapade. And this flavour is not generated by ‘me’, it is not of ‘me’ but rather comes from the actual world. And tasting this flavour it leads to rememorating other times when it was experienced, memories which were up to now forgotten. Like a trip to London with Sonya some time back where it was particularly present. This flavour it always has the effect of galvanising me into action because it is so delightful in this deeply meaningful way that I just have to find a way to allow it more. And that is the crux of it really, I have experienced this flavour many times, and each time it is just as fresh and delightful, but the question is how to live with it all the time? Why these constant reversions away from it, only to then re-discover it once more some time later. And then all that time in-between, without this flavour present is such a waste. There is something which I can see, I could actually see it happen this morning, that this shadowy construct which is ‘me’
(as the ‘doer’?) has to fade in order to allow this flavour. They cannot both be operant at the same time! VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is a great description of naiveté infused with pure intent. When I looked at your question at the end, I noticed something interesting. When you talk about naiveté you use the first-person pronoun but then when the doer takes command you describe it in the passive voice, as something happening to you as if you had no control over it, such as “these constant reversions away from it”, “this shadowy construct” like a mere skeleton banned into the cupboard. You put ‘it’ at arm’s length and futilely command it to go away (“has to fade”). Remember the phrase “‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’”? It informs you that everything you are affectively experiencing is ‘you’. How can ‘you’ command ‘you’ to go away? As I said to João the other day –
From this non-dissociative experience, you can also decide to be naïve and and/or remain naïve. All you need to do to maintain this naiveté, is to be aware whenever the slightest dissociation sets in because of some unpleasant feeling, decline to push it away, and instead naïvely embrace it as some issue which still requires to be looked at. When you don’t push it away you can remain naïve, interested, fascinated, and be a friend to yourself without interruption. Then allowing the flavour of pure intent happens of its own accord. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, I have been looking at what you wrote and also I have had Geoffrey’s words on my mind – “When ‘I’ am whole feeling good is a choice”. Those words stuck in my mind because they summarise so well this very common pitfall for me. Which is basically to split ‘myself’ and then have 1 part try to shove around other parts. I was thinking the past couple of days about how the actualism method is intended to be utilised sincerely i.e. with ‘me’ as a whole, and how crucial this is. Because the second that ‘I’ operate from that dissociative experience then ‘I’ am no longer aware that ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings, and so how can ‘I’ possibly have a choice as to how ‘I’ experience this moment of being alive. From the dissociative experience ‘I’ can only try to shuffle around parts of ‘me’ and ultimately go round in circles. It has been almost like a different paradigm altogether, to consider proceeding only as a whole, that any ‘motion’ which happens for ‘me’ is ‘me’ moving as a whole. Initially when I considered this it seemed like trying to work out a muscle I have never used, it seemed all buttons on ‘my’ dashboard entailed splitting up first. But I have been putting this into practice and then today I was able to re-discover naiveté again. But this time I can indeed
see that it is something that ‘I’ am ‘being’. I experienced naiveté as a “place in ‘me’” which ‘I’ can visit/become. I also
noticed that when ‘I’ allow naiveté that there is this tenderness in ‘me’ which did not exist just prior. It is always experienced as being
so right, that this is exactly how ‘I’ should ‘be’, not as a moral command but because it delivers the goods. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is a very fortuitous and useful discovery and it also answers your next question of “what is standing in the way of
naiveté” It is so lovely to discover that and be that, as much as you dare … and then some more. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: This morning I woke up feeling rather clean and whole, then this part of ‘me’ which I have been circling for a while presented itself experientially in such a naked way. It is shame itself, something inculcated a long time ago and it was simply sitting there underneath the various parts of ‘me’. And ‘I’ am this shame and this shame is ‘me’, this is what ‘I’ have been ‘being’ underneath many different dramas. But ‘I’ was never able to experience this shame as ‘me’, it was always “over there” and painful to touch. I experienced it like a flower opening up to reveal a pearl in its centre, which was the shame itself, and it is ‘me’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, What a great experience and lovely description. Did you realise now that shame is ‘me’, and no longer at arm’s length, it changes from antagonist to an ally (as in all of ‘you’ on board)? And because you say in your next message “I have been “cleaning out the cupboards” of all the
things which I previously ignored or pushed to the side” Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So I came across guilt recently, initially I got a bit railroaded by it, so to begin with I have been allowing myself to experience it fully without (psychically) moving in either direction. The guilt in question is this deep and fundamental feeling of culpability. (…) This demonstrates the situation well, that ‘I’ am guilty by virtue of ‘being’ and this feeling can easily be latched onto with various narratives. But the feeling of guilt comes first, because ‘I’ know just what ‘I’ am deep down. And then in terms of what to do with guilt… I think the first step which I have been focusing on is correct, in that ‘I’ need to be open to experiencing this guilt, even if this is initially unsettling. Because only by daring to experience it fully can it go from this monster ‘over there’ to the recognition that it is ‘me’. I do see the point which Richard made, that although ‘I’ am guilty at conception – as ‘I’ am the passions – that ‘I’ am not to be blamed for this situation existing in the first place. ‘I’ had no choice in being born as an instinctual ‘being’. Enjoyment and appreciation is the means to rectify the situation, and guilt is an obstacle to doing exactly that. ‘I’ am indeed culpable by virtue of ‘being’ and yet to do something, to eradicate the predicament that human beings are born into, ‘I’ need to give way for this guilt to be dissolved. Otherwise (as Richard wrote) ‘I’ am stuck going round via mea culpa, and the human condition continues on. I can see why in the past ‘I’ took to the task of becoming the ‘perfect actualist’, it was an attempt to step around this
guilt and receive some kind of absolution. But of course this is to miss the very point that ‘I’ am the human condition. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I found something in feeling being ‘Vineeto’s’ correspondence ‘she’ wrote in 2002 which you might relate to –
I remember that for ‘Vineeto’ this guilt of ‘being’ was particularly prevalent at times when ‘she’ was aware of procrastination, and it only fully disappeared when ‘she’ went out-from-under-control because then it was obvious that ‘she’ had stepped on the one-way runway towards actual freedom. Not shoving guilt into the background is certainly a good idea, and then make it your ally ‘to keep you honest’, as they say, about proceeding to your ultimate goal. As Geoffrey says, “Daring, and audacity”. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Thank you for the correspondence from ‘Vineeto’, I do relate and I never quite saw it from that angle. It reminds me of what Richard wrote, that suffering is the universe’s way of telling one that one has gone astray… Well equally that guilt of ‘being’ is a sign that ‘I’ am procrastinating with regards to proceeding towards the final goal, ‘I’ am saving ‘myself’ for just a little longer. It is when ‘I’ am statically in place that this guilt is apparent. I remember this specifically because couple of days ago I entered a period where everything was dynamic, and in that dynamism there was no guilt at all, firstly because there was only felicity and innocuity on ‘my’ side but also because there was the solid experience that in this very direction is the final destination, and ‘I’ was dynamically allowing a movement towards it. So essentially ‘I’ am guilty at ‘being’ when ‘I’ know that ‘I’ am statically remaining in place, and then merely rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. I notice I have a tendency to do this, that I proceed towards new territory but then I want to stick around on this new plateau, pick up what is left of ‘my’ life and play with that a little longer – that is when the guilt comes. So yes this guilt is like a red flashing light that ‘I’ am once again static, and saving ‘myself’ for a little longer. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You are welcome. Now that it is established what the guilt signifies, is there anything else, apart from “a tendency” “to stick around”, preventing you from proceeding “towards new territory”? Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, I was thinking about your question intently today as to not reply with a furphy. It looks that ‘I’ don’t want to be seen/ exposed/ revealed. Remaining some semblance of control ‘I’ can cover up ‘my’ tracks so to speak. It’s like ‘I’ am holding in a very dirty secret, and that secret is to do with ‘my’ very ‘being’. And to proceed into the new territory is to allow for that ‘dirty secret’ to be freely revealed/ penetrated into. And to allow that to happen is to begin the process where ‘I’ unravel. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Yes, that is exactly it – “that secret is to do with ‘my’ very ‘being’”. It is not an easy secret to accept
and embrace, and yet it is the very cause for human beings’ suffering, which all the religions and spiritual traditions have exploited to assert
their authority and power over millennia via this guilt. Of no fault of one’s own everyone is ‘born in sin’ or ‘guilty at conception’ via
the instinctual survival passions and the identity formed thereof. Richard has a catalogue collection
It is for the sake of peace-on-earth that one embraces one’s “own culpability” as a fact to allow “that ‘dirty secret’ to be freely revealed/ penetrated into” and to embrace it fully as being ‘me’. Doing so, feeling being ‘Vineeto’ experienced a gradually increasing awareness and intensity regarding ‘her’ yearning for oblivion. This way the full awareness of the ramifications of being ‘guilty at conception’ becomes the most powerful ally for your destiny – to foster ‘my’ abdication so that innocence can prevail. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Thank you for your reply and your continued assistance for us all on this forum. When I read your reply yesterday I was thinking about how many various layers of ‘me’ and various diversions set up by ‘me’ had to be addressed before ‘I’ could even begin to admit to this “secret”, and to embrace it as ‘me’. It’s like ‘I’ created a maze for ‘myself’ so that that core of ‘my’ being would avert being seen. And it took enormous persistence and ever growing sincerity to manoeuvre this. I know that I am proceeding in the correct direction lately because ‘I’ am proceeding as a whole. And I see now back when ‘I’ was experiencing the “unpalatable resistance” it was because ‘I’ was split in 2, and the wall that ‘I’ was running into (which would push ‘me’ back more the harder ‘I’ ran) was also ‘me’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Isn’t is amazing how it all makes sense in hindsight, how important for instance being a friend to yourself really is, to embrace all the unpalatable feelings as ‘me’, so that you can finally be “proceeding as a whole”. This description is so significant, it should be framed and hung on everyone’s wall. The way ‘I’ operate, being formed of the instinctual passions, is to keep the conflict in motion and the most efficient way to do this is to “split in 2”, or more, apparently opposing fractions. The best way to spoil this ‘survival-of-‘me’-game’ is to embrace any of the pushed-away feelings and dare to embrace each as ‘me’. Then you can proceed “as a whole”. Then something astounding happens, you can chose being ‘me’ as a felicitous feeling instead of the previous unpalatable feeling – intelligence wins and this aspect of the human condition loses. As you say, it sometimes takes “enormous persistence and ever growing sincerity” but once you have the knack it becomes increasingly easy. KUBA: So ‘I’ am no longer split, and now ‘I’ am beginning to dare to allow ‘myself’ to be seen at the core of ‘my’ being. It’s fascinating because deep inside there is a cyclone, and ‘I’ am those very swirling passions. And in normal perception it is ‘I’ as those passions/ that cyclone looking ‘out’ and projecting those very dramas which are raging inside / which are ‘me’, out into the world – that is the real world. So in the real world is where ‘I’ play out the dramas which are but an ‘outer’ projection/ manifestation of ‘me’ as a passionate being. And any drama will do as long as attention can be cast away from that cyclone and out into the real world, away from the core of ‘my’ being. So long story short ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being is never seen. The above was a bit of a laboured point but it is because the way ‘I’ am being seen lately is that it is no longer ‘me’
projecting attention from ‘inside-out’, rather ‘I’ as that cyclone am seen in ‘my’ totality. And then it is seen that ‘I’ (as a
passionate entity) can never know rest, as ‘I’ am that very swirling motion of the passions. VINEETO: Knowing that “‘I’ am that very swirling motion of the passions” there is one more step – having solved the mystery you can now wrest your fascinated (still ‘self’-centric) attention away from “‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being” (like from a thrilling movie) and look around. There is an already existing actual world, existing totally independent of ‘me’ and ‘my’ passions. Having nothing to hide, you can now allow yourself to be naïve in the world as it is with people as they are. The very reason to discover ‘me’ at the core has always been, as I understood you, to get closer to the actual world, to imitate the actual and ultimately to be naiveté. Now you have the choice. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, and Claudiu, So I have been looking into all this what has been discussed, relating to no longer having anything to hide, so that naïveté can flourish. I can see that no longer having anything to hide is essentially to have levelled the maze which consisted of ‘my’ subterfuge. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Well, it looks to me that you have a problem – to no longer have a problem behind which to hide. But instead of daring to come out and play, a little bit at a time, from behind your “subterfuge” and start enjoying being alive in a new, a little bit more naïve way, you quickly manufactured a new problem from the very words I wrote to Claudiu –
This active intention requires a bit of daring and a lot of sincere intent. KUBA: But then there is something else… It is not do with no longer hiding as such, rather it is to do with ceasing ‘surviving’. Which is to say that to ‘be’ naïveté and thus to set the actualism process in motion is to agree to cease the instinctual ‘action’ of ‘surviving’, which is more like the very thrust of ‘me’ as an entity. It looks to me that to step through the boundary, past which the actualism process is in motion, is to have decided, deep down, to cease ‘surviving’. Basically this ‘action’ of ‘surviving’ and naïveté are oil and water, and to give way to naïveté fully is to abandon
‘surviving’. VINEETO: Ha, by defining/ conceptualising what to do next as “to step through the boundary” of “oil and water” which you define as “to have decided, deep down, to cease ‘surviving’” you have successfully avoided any daring right now, to come out and play, a little bit at a time, and be more naïve, like a kid with adult sensibilities and see what happens. To explain, if in your parkour days you had planned the distance for the next jump too far you were bound to fail in that jump, but after you extended your capacity and expertise bit by bit you could eventually jump further than before with more and more confidence. As such I suggest to experiment with naïve enjoyment and appreciation, and put the question of “cease ‘surviving’” aside for now in order to be more able to like yourself and liking others. To “cease ‘surviving’” can only be looked at when you are easily and happily ready to do so. Let me know if that might work for you. Cheers Vineeto
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual Freedom
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