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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Kuba on Discuss Actualism Forum
KUBA: So it appears that the issue at core is around this old dichotomy of free will vs determinism, this is the lens I have been viewing the situation through. I can see that ‘I’ as a separative entity can only view life as either having dominion or being under dominion. Being forever separated from actuality ‘I’ can only view ‘myself’ as either some disembodied ‘prime mover’ or merely an object being deterministically acted upon. ‘My’ conceptions of what agency or autonomy are all about are
wrapped up within these constructs. I can see that both ‘me’ as a psychic entity and ‘I’ as a psychological
entity arrogate ‘myself’ over life as it actually happens. This has been made even clearer through the
recent articles 
VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You said it well, it is always the real-world affective/social-identity perception of two opposites and the third alternative only hooves into view when you reject them both and turn to the memory of your PCE/pure intent as your guide. This has been so with many problems you have already solved this way and will be so with any further problems you devise in order to postpone the last step. You already know that and how you can resolve any problem you come up with, it’s a successful pattern. As I said to you before on September 30 – September 2024). There comes a time when you, with the supreme confidence born of the memory of your PCE, take
the last leap into the unknown, i.e. the inconceivable, which the ‘self’ can never conceive of.
 (Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 115, 11 May 2006)
KUBA: All this talk about progressing into full actual freedom is making it seem to me like I am still stuck playing a kids game. Especially the below seems to have kicked me back into gear
VINEETO: This is music to my ears. Not that Richard or even Vineeto had it all that easy – Richard was trapped in institutionalized insanity (spiritual enlightenment) for 11 years (link) and then had 30 months of a “macabre and gruesome transition phase” in which he was “determining the validity of uncharted territory” (link), and Vineeto practised the actualism method for 11 or so years until she could finally take advantage of the newly opened “direct route” and become newly free -- without any smidgen of Richard’s difficult transition phase for having been the first pioneer. Hence it is now demonstrably easier for other pioneers to continue the exploration into the evolution of human consciousness of enabling peace-on-earth whilst nevertheless being at the historically significant stage of true pioneers. What a grand time to be alive. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Whilst all that chipping away can be done in the meantime, this has absolutely nothing to do with it. This is clear now from the recent discussions. I would like a situation where I can chip away until the last issue resolves and then boom - actual freedom, but it is not at all like that. bAs you and Richard mentioned to Geoffrey in the Australia Q&As - there is no link at all between the application of the method, between chipping away at the social identity and self immolation. It is a separate event altogether and cannot be ‘trained for’ in that sense. It’s like I thought that all this “in the meantime”
business would be training me for the last event, to make it easier. But it seems the option to self immolate has
been here all along, it could have been taken at any point, it did not require any training and it will not be made
easier by any training. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Yes and no. There is no link and, as you worked out before, there is no requirement from the actual world to enter. But most people feel more confident when they are experientially well acquainted with the subject matter. KUBA: Although I can pinpoint a couple of events which required that I allow something to happen which I cannot plan in advance. The first one was having the first PCE after starting the method, it seemed like I was chasing the impossible, but after 6 months or so it happened, I couldn’t believe it but it happened! The second was stepping out from control, this had that same flavour of proceeding somewhere where I haven’t visited before and therefore I couldn’t work it out in advance, and yet all this energy was needed to proceed. So I am clearly capable of it, it is more that all the various tools and techniques I was taught throughout my life cannot prepare me for this event. James has/had his habit of reducing things to a single sentence and I have my habit of wanting to have the territory meticulously charted out before any motion forward. Whereas what is needed is to be a pioneer, even though it has been done before I am a pioneer by virtue of proceeding into the unknown. VINEETO: Well, everything you have done “in the meantime” has gained you confidence and experience so that you are now sufficiently equipped to dare to do the third step into the unknown – first a PCE, second going out-from-control and the third will be leaving your ‘self’ behind. You do have pioneer qualities after all. The question now is, how to pinpoint the best moment to activate them. KUBA: There is 1 aspect I find very freeing in the prospect of being a pioneer though, which is that there is no need to get bogged down in the ‘how to’, no need for processes and rules and regulations. No need to wait at all. VINEETO: With no “processes and rules and regulations” you are free to choose the right moment for ‘you’, the identity, to be in full agreement to lay down ‘your’ burden and go into the secretly yearned-for oblivion. ‘Vineeto’ had several reasons for ‘her’, the identity, which drew her forward – there
was a growing uneasiness of knowing ‘she’ was a fake, an impostor. Then there was an every-increasing awareness
of a deep desire for oblivion, and an acute awareness of evil, felt as psychic vibes and currents, in others and by
extension in herself. And lastly there was a caring, grown out of a deeply felt, at times, painful awareness of all
the mayhem and misery which humans do to humans – and ‘she’ wanted to be instrumental to help bringing it to an
end. I wrote to you about it on 24 September. You’ll gather your own motivations for making the supreme sacrifice of what ‘you’ hold most dear, more dear than “wanting to have the territory meticulously charted out”, and find the right moment to allow it to happen and go blessedly into oblivion. Ah, what an adventure! Cheers Vineeto
Hi Kuba, Hi Claudiu, Regarding our recent discussion about agency
Comes a bit of a shock, doesn’t it, that in actuality there is neither “determinism” nor “free will” but instead “this freed will, called intelligence.” Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So I have been having fun investigating self esteem / self worth. I can see this aspect of the human condition is what underpins most of the themes which remain. The archetype which I can narrow the thing down to is one of the ‘messiah’. […] This desperate need to belong however is a beast that needs to be fed over and over, it never rests. Which means ‘I’ lock ‘myself’ in the never ending pursuit for the next ‘golden nugget’. This archetype of the ‘messiah’ is a tricky one to see for what it is, because this desperate need for a feeling of validation is masked by ‘doing good for others’ or ‘seeking excellence to uplift others’. It’s like ‘I’ want to be Jesus, bringing light to those below ‘me’ and in doing so solidify ‘my’ place
in the group forever, ‘I’ will then be forever needed. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, That is a pretty hungry “beast“ indeed the way you play it out. What ‘Vineeto’ discovered the further ‘she’ inquired into her ‘self’ is that this entity which dictated ‘her’ life is deep down very fragile, very insecure and the reason is that ‘she’ knew that this entity is fake, a mountebank, a fraud, a confidence trickster – and therefore not only in need to constantly justify ‘my’ existence but also to have others confirm ‘my’ existence (hence the need to belong). You may have observed when you believe something (but are not quite sure), you need allies, whereas when you know something for a fact, you don’t need anyone to confirm that to you, you just know. The more ‘Vineeto’ became enthusiastic to the point of being obsessed with actual freedom, the more ‘she’ became autonomous and confident, because ‘she’ didn’t waste energy to constantly hide ‘her’ fraudulent existence but instead was actively endeavouring to expose it of ‘her’ own accord. The focus changed. There was still a desire to ‘change the world’, to help the plight of humanity, but ‘she’ had now a clearer vision – become actually free and by this very act do something beneficial for everyone who wants to also be free from the burden of being run by the instinctual passions. In fact, ‘she’ dedicated ‘her’ life to it. KUBA: The thing which I always wanted deep down was to be free to be me as I am, to be genuine, to be original and to be authentic. In short to exist completely outside of this structure of the ‘group’, of belonging, of identity etc. […] So ‘I’ have been keen to find that something ultimately precious which ‘I’ will be willing to give up ‘myself’ for. This seems to be in the right direction, the freedom to be me as I am for one and all. VINEETO: It looks to me that the only thing you need to realize, and then actualize, is to get your priorities right and everything will fall into place. You can “be original and […] authentic“ and still be “‘doing good for others’“ and “‘seeking excellence to uplift others’“ – in fact much, much more efficiently – by genuinely caring, not for your own validation but for everyone’s actual benefit. Caring so much that you dare to show the way, not only to set everyone free from your own insalubrious identity (every identity is insalubrious) but also lead by example how easy it is to walk out of the human condition and to leave ‘yourself’ behind. And when you are without ‘self’ no one is below you and no one is above you either. Now wouldn’t that be a genuine and thoroughly beneficent archetype, hey? Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: It looks to me that the only thing you need to realize, and then actualize, is to get your priorities right and everything will fall into place. KUBA: Ah yes but it’s easier to scapegoat ‘my’ lack of priorities onto that ‘messiah’ identity and then fight ‘him’ instead . That way ‘I’ can continue being a fraud and of course the accountability is shifted just ‘over there’. What you wrote rings very true, I am not sure how these priorities will
shift just yet but I can see that unless they do I am stuck rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic”. VINEETO: Just to inserts some facts to your latest presented problem, I looked up archetype of the ‘messiah” and here are a few descriptions –
Can you sincerely say that any of the above answers applies to you? Are you perhaps getting a bit desperate to invent a problem for the pleasure of solving it? When I saw you write about the ‘Messianic Archetype’ I thought there were some learned Neo-Jungian psychologists expanding the field, but it’s not even seriously discussed in academia yet and still you try it on like a party costume. Perhaps gullibility is a more worthwhile topic of observation. Btw, did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary? Recently you said – All this talk about progressing into full actual freedom is
making it seem to me like I am still stuck playing a kids game.” KUBA: Perhaps seeing ‘oneself’ to be equally fraudulent is a
little more difficult as it would entail immediate action, of ending ‘oneself’. That slight dissociation of ‘me’
vs ‘humanity’ can keep ‘me’ alive (as I have demonstrated in my above posts). Keeping ‘humanity’ as just
slightly separate to ‘me’ allows ‘me’ to continue blaming ‘humanity’ whilst remaining a fraud ‘myself’.
‘I’ can then investigate ‘humanity’ as if it’s something different to ‘me’ and that in itself shows how
fraudulent ‘I’ am! Well spotted. * SHASHANK: I was thinking if there is a core fraud at the level of the instinctual being itself. KUBA: Yes I suspect it is fraudulence all the way through haha, in
that ‘I’ don’t actually exist in the first place. But how useful this is for an entity who needs to allow their
own extinction I am not sure. VINEETO: The reason why I drew attention to this fact of fraudulence recently is because this was a major factor for ‘Vineeto’ to agree, on a deep instinctual/feeling level, to ‘her’ increasingly inevitable demise. The motivation for ‘self’-immolation needs to encompass all of ‘you’ at a deep level of ‘being’ for allowing it to happen, and when ‘I’ recognize and acknowledge that deep down ‘I’ experience ‘my’ job of ‘self’-preservation as a constant burden, and with no genuinely advantageous point to boot for continuing to carry that burden, then you, who wants to be free to be what you are have won a major ally. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Thank you Vineeto, I sincerely appreciate your reply and I have been giggling
to myself in slight embarrassment this morning. Of course it is not that you embarrassed me but it is the facts that
did, seeing what I have been doing did it haha. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, It’s a delight to read about your reaction of amusement at your own tricks. There is so much which is amusing about the human condition when seen from a wider angle. Rather than feeling embarrassed you can pat yourself on the back for having discarded this
latest ‘problem’ so quickly. The feeling of embarrassment, when stripped of its socially inherent judgement of
wrong or bad, can easily segue into feeling naïve (unsophisticated, ingenuous), which is where you can like yourself
and others and don’t mind at all seen to be a fool in the eyes of others. “To be naïveté itself (i.e.,
naïveté embodied as ‘me’), which is to be the closest one can to innocence whilst remaining a ‘self’”. * VINEETO: Are you perhaps getting a bit desperate to invent a problem for the pleasure of solving it? KUBA: Yes this is a good way to put it and in itself this shows where my priorities have been. To be content busying myself with “finding problems for the pleasure of solving them” whilst ‘I’ remain rotten. I see what I have been doing now, there was this slight distance/dissociation between ‘me’ and ‘the problem’. ‘I’ can remain in existence by finding the next problem, always just slightly distanced from ‘me’, the more fancy the problem the longer ‘I’ can look for a solution and kid ‘myself’ that something productive is being done. VINEETO: Ha, the identity is very apt in finding problems – it’s the very raison d’être at this point of keeping ‘you’ in existence. What you can do, remembering your priorities, is to diminish the power of believing until you eventually lose the ability to believe altogether. * KUBA: Whereas the below would be actually doing something : VINEETO: You can “be original and […] authentic” and still be “‘doing good for others’” and “‘seeking excellence to uplift others’” – in fact much, much more efficiently – by genuinely caring, not for your own validation but for everyone’s actual benefit. Caring so much that you dare to show the way, not only to set everyone free from your own insalubrious identity (every identity is insalubrious) but also lead by example how easy it is to walk out of the human condition and to leave ‘yourself’ behind. And when you are without ‘self’ no one is below you and no one is above you either. Now wouldn’t that be a genuine and thoroughly beneficent archetype, hey? KUBA: The funny (but perverse) thing is that I have been doing the opposite! I have been trying to prove how damn difficult it is, thus not only blocking myself but others into the bargain. Indeed those priorities are all over the place. VINEETO: Yep, the easier becoming free looks when you come to your senses the more ‘you’ have to work hard to prove the opposite. Though it’s easy to correct course at any time you notice. KUBA: I remember a correspondence on the AFT (which I cannot find now) where the correspondent mentions that Richard appears to be truly an exceptional person. Richard responds by saying that if the correspondent is being sincere in his observation then good, because they must dare to be an exceptional person themselves. Time to raise the bar! VINEETO: I couldn’t find that quote either with the word “exceptional” but I found this, which might be what you had in mind – You sound like a remarkable man and I would like to ask a question. […] RICHARD: Where you say ‘you sound like a remarkable man’ , if you
mean it sincerely I would like to congratulate you for your perspicacity, because I must emphasise that it is vital
that you aspire to being a remarkable person yourself ... or else you will not succeed in ridding yourself of your
sense of identity. This is very important, because people can put themselves down only too easily as being not good
enough, not intelligent enough or not capable enough. I am not gifted or special ... I was born of ordinary parents,
was sent to an ordinary state school – receiving an average education until I was fifteen years of age – took an
ordinary job and worked for a living. I eventually got married and had four children and bought a house and ... in
short, I was relatively normal and did all the expected things. Thus did I live my life for thirty two years
according to the ‘tried and true’ methods as laid down by the countless millions of other humans that had lived
before me. I tried my best to make their system work to produce the optimum result ... but to no avail. Only then
did I make the first and most important movement of my own volition ... I discarded the ‘tried and true’ as being
the ‘tried and failed’. (I did say ‘I was relatively normal’ because one thing, and one thing alone, stood
out that distinguished me from whomsoever else I met: I wanted to know – as an actuality – just what it was to be
a human being here on this planet, as this body, in this life-time.) [emphasis added]. Enjoy. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Wow and it is so incomparable, this flavour that is
ultimately precious, that pure intent shows, that can be tasted in enjoying and appreciating this moment of being
alive, which is the flavour of the final destination. Indeed nothing but nothing is worth getting in the way of this,
but this understanding cannot be thought out, it can only be lived now. How incredible that what can be tasted now
can undo whatever importance ‘I’ concocted in ‘my’ entire lifetime. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, It is indeed “incomparable“, and this “flavour“ “that can be tasted“ is not of the senses, it is an apperceptive experience – it is not of this [‘real’] world. This “flavour” is the sweetness, the tenderness, the utter appreciation of pure intent,
the very pure intent which is “an actually occurring stream of benevolence and benignity that originates in
the vast and utter stillness that is the essential character of the universe itself“. KUBA: It’s weird, to experience this ultimate preciousness and
how it is available now, it is so profound for ‘me’ that ‘I’ cannot help but feel some kind of sorrow, with
tears coming up. I remember this would happen over and over before I had my first PCE, that sorrow would block ‘me’
from going into abeyance just as ‘I’ was on the verge of it happening. Eventually ‘I’ got done with this
pattern and the PCE happened. It’s like ‘I’ finally decided / developed the confidence to allow only
perfection, whereas this sorrow (which could easily flip into beauty) although seeming very meaningful, it was like
‘my’ last line of defence. VINEETO: I suspect that what you call sorrow here might well have been the same “flavour“ you described above and it was so overwhelming that it brought tears (of appreciation) to your eyes. Because it was new and unknown then ‘you’ interpreted it as sorrow. It’s only a guess because it has been my experience, especially for a period after Richard’s death, that pure intent flowed so over-abundantly that I was often overwhelmed to tears, which on closer inspection turned out to be tears of an overwhelming appreciation and also an unprecedented experience of intimacy with the people I came in contact with. It’s just mirificent to see what it happening at present. Cheers Vineeto
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