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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Andrew on Discuss Actualism Forum
ANDREW: So, I use the habitual language of the oppressed to self-castigate. One of the time “honoured” habits, one I identified when leaving the DhO, is ‘intellectualisation’. It wasn’t until Henry started exploring its effects recently, that I started to contemplate it again. Vineeto pointing out the difference between adopting an “actualism” belief, vs experience of the feeling and reality and deciding what to do. I went to the doctor, hoping to get government assistance to see a psychologist. Many have suggested this, even Richard (though not to me directly). My doctor (who has been my doctor for 25 years), refused. He said you are just bored and lonely! He proceeded to accompany my outside to inspect my motorcycle, and reminisce on his own from decades prior. His diagnosis was refreshing. Cut through the ‘intellectualisation’. The habitual language of the oppressed is
also the tool with which they oppress their children. I remember clearly ‘climbing into my head’ very early on,
to escape. I like Vineeto reminding me of Linus’
I grew up reading Peanuts. Such habitual language, and the resultant ‘climbing into my head’ can be safely discarded. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Welcome back. I am delighted to see you haven’t lost your sense of humour which I remember
from your posts on the last Mailing List Now that you recognized that “‘intellectualisation’” and “‘climbing into my head’” can be safely discarded like Linus’ blanket, both Kuba’s and Henry’s reports will be encouraging to actualize your realisation, including the aspect to “throw away any conception of appearing foolish” which is often the hardest part at the start.
As you can see, you won’t be alone in “appearing foolish” when you are prepared to be “be happily shown as wrong” and admit to yourself that you were “already ridiculous”. As a consequence you will become “more excited by the potential than afraid of being exposed”. You are already in like-minded company with those who, because of allowing to feel embarrassed are now more happy (and harmless) than before. ANDREW: That’s what I meant by rebellion. Of course, it’s short lived. The rush of doing
something “dumb” but for a moment feeling that edge. VINEETO: “Rebellion” has been your modus operandi since I started reading your posts on actualism forums. Now you can make use of this inclination for rebellion by rebelling in a way that can make a genuine and radical change – changing yourself fundamentally, radically, completely and utterly. To begin with I recommend (if you are open to recommendation) to rid yourself of any resentment against being here and against the universe at large, which resentment tends to make one very serious, apart from being angry towards anything and anyone on top of it. Basic resentment demonstrably stands in the way of allowing oneself to be naïve, like a child again but with adult sensibilities.
After all, changing oneself can be immense fun, and your sense of humour – including humour when looking at yourself – can aid you immensely in recognizing that being alive is not a serious affair … and is certainly anything but “boring”. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: I am time and time is me. VINEETO: Hi Andew, You may feel that way but this is not a statement of fact. In actuality time is the arena in which events happen. ANDREW: So, being happy, feeling good, is about feeling good in time. That time, the
feeling of it, isn’t something to be afraid of. I am time. I am the passing of time. VINEETO: Here you are simply using a philosophical trick to relieve you of the conditioned guilt of “wasting time”. ANDREW: So, when I feel happy, or have another moment when things feel good, I am not spending time or wasting it, I am it! VINEETO: What is correct is that when you are not feeling good you are wasting this precious moment of being alive, now, because now is the only moment you can experience being alive, by feeling sorrowful and/or malicious. ANDREW: There was always the background morality about time for me, which was about future judgement. When I think about wasted time, it was always laced with rebellion. I remember very early on when homework, or projects for school was expected of me, there was both the feeling of efforts for the future were futile, and there was no way I would invest in things which would get me judged! I wanted to set the terms of my accomplishments. I still dream like this. In an abstract way about “the future”. VINEETO: I remember feeling being ‘Vineeto’ being driven to do ‘something useful’ with ‘her’ time because of ‘her’ work-ethic conditioning. Now, being free from the social identity and instinctual passions I have all the time in the universe, and it is always now. But I am not ‘time’ – that is a misleading concept/ construct. It is the universe which is eternal, I am mortal. ANDREW: That is disassociated. I am the ‘time’ I am rebellious against! VINEETO: That sentence makes no sense whatsoever. When will you come out of your ivory tower and play? Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: (…) My career has been an accumulation of experiences
which have made me a valuable commodity. As a person in a chair in front of a screen, or on the phone, or in person. So this particular interest, in building algorithmic trading bots, it quite different. I have to extend myself, not as a commodity, but as a creator. That’s what got me feeling that I was terrified of the future. That it was never worth extending effort to improve my lot. I would dream of it, fantasy being a daily thing, but really build it? No. I would not extend myself. So, to put more clearly what I was feeling about time; ‘I’ am ‘time’. ‘I’ am not actual time, ‘I’ am imagining ‘time’. A ‘time’ when I will be happy. VINEETO: Ok, now I know what you mean by ‘I’ am ‘time’, that you are talking about an imaginary time “when you will be happy”. Hence your sentence would better read – ‘I am living in an imaginary time’. This way it becomes obvious what an ineffective enterprise it is to imagine to be happy some day in the future instead of doing something right here, right now, to be happy, isn’t it? Hence my suggestion to ‘come out and play’. ANDREW: This is what I was thinking about. The disconnect between what I am doing and feeling, and that ‘time’ in the future. Why do ‘I’ persist to feel bad about doing anything to look after the very actual me that will wake up tomorrow? I have spent so much of my life expecting life to end suddenly. (With a lot of terror and apocalyptic results before the end). What is it that I am missing here? VINEETO: Mmh, perhaps what you are missing is recognizing that there is fear? And being afraid of this fear? ANDREW: For 49 years I have woken up in the morning, but there was never a day I really took proper care of the fact that was likely to keep happening. Does that make sense? That’s the feeling there. A fantasy ‘future’ was the only ‘future’. Yet here I am. And, probably will remain. VINEETO: Now that you have faced the fact that you are indeed here in this place and now in this moment in time, and that merely imagining a happy future will not be powerful enough to bring it about – do you perhaps have the necessary wherewithal to allow this fear to come to the surface? In other words, are you ready to not fight the fear that is there? I remember a correspondence from you to the mailing list where you said you ‘girded yourself for battle every morning’ (it is not in the archives so Richard did not respond) but it remained in my memory because it struck me at the time as a hard and tiresome existence. In this post it appears that you are looking for a different, more happy modus operandi, so perhaps stopping the fight (against yourself) might now have a certain appeal to you. Here is my recommendation based on personal experience from feeling being ‘Vineeto’ and the success of other people’s reports as well –
ANDREW: I feel like writing more. I do want to change. Yeah, that’s what I want to say. [Emphasis added]. VINEETO: This is excellent, Andrew, a propitious time to do that. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto. It is a fact that ‘I’ am cunning. So many really useful insights will slip away, but now I wonder how much is slipping away and how much '‘I’ push away. This topic of fear is an example. I was sitting here knowing that I had seen something about this yesterday. Yet, it took a good while to finally remember. That was I have been expressing the feelings towards the future, and judgement, and the fantasies and rumination, but I push away any specific thing as the object. So, instead of being specific, as in I am afraid that I will give away what I worked hard for, and really going into that, I have been onto the next thought. Classic intellectualisation. The feeling of fear is covered over and not admitted, instead there will be a fantasy to calm it down. Often an “ivory tower” one. Where I have successfully achieved some endeavour and will be magnanimous in give others bread crumbs. So, instead of admitting that I am easily manipulated, and that is what I am afraid of, because I am afraid of being angry at anyone because I am not strong enough to battle most people. That I just don’t admit I am afraid, and skip straight to some compensatory fantasy or rumination, is a big part of how I am afraid of feeling afraid. I will feel it out more, but I wanted to write down so to remind myself to be specific about the
object of fear, and let myself feel it and get further into the facts. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Isn’t it great that when you contemplate and reflect and become more and more fascinated that you can find out a lot about how you operate and come to a valid conclusion, to wit: “I just don’t admit I am afraid, and skip straight to some compensatory fantasy or rumination, is a big part of how I am afraid of feeling afraid”. In this very sentence is the recognition and admission that you are indeed “afraid of feeling afraid”. Now that you uncovered and verified the fact of the matter you can act. You can dare to not fight the feeling of being afraid. Of course, in order to summon the necessary courage, you need a sincere motivation to do so. Could this motivation be that you would like to feel good now? Would you perhaps like to become happy and harmless (instead of fighting yourself or rebelling against anything that tickles your fancy)? Do you like the possibility that you then more likely feel good in what you call ‘the future’? Or, even more, would you like to devote your life to something worthwhile? All this is possible if you sincerely want it – and take the first step, the first action, on the fact which you discovered – “I am afraid of feeling afraid”. This time, don’t allow the habit of being “easily manipulated”, or skipping “straight to some compensatory fantasy or rumination” to distract you from this first action towards a more peaceful life. The action to feel the fear without fighting your initial impulse to fight the feeling. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks so much Vineeto ! I have not had such a success as far as I can recall (excluding the possibility that I am cunningly not remembering it). VINEETO: Hi Andrew, This is great to hear – did you pat yourself on the back? Appreciate the big day of change in your life? ANDREW: It’s a powerful imagination of mine right now to think of the weather you are probably experiencing right now, and yet such a detailed and thorough message from you has arrived in my journal. VINEETO: Yes, it has been quite windy last night (~ 80 km/h gusts) but has calmed down a bit. It is predicted that most of the storm will be over tomorrow morning for the Ballina area. Dealing with high water in the streets and shops and houses of the towns around here will take a bit longer. Funny, some acquaintances were concerned that I wouldn’t be safe on the boat from their perspective, but boats are quite useful when there is a flood (wind is another matter). ANDREW: I felt more encouraged by this success yesterday than
perhaps ever before (excluding the possibility of me deliberately forgetting for cunning purposes). VINEETO: Ha, indeed. The method is just that – enjoy and appreciate, and enjoy and
appreciate more … if anything triggers a diminishing of that feeling good (noticed via affective attentiveness) you
do whatever it takes to get back to feeling good, and then work out what the problem is, which triggered the
lessening of feeling good. If you care to read more about how to deal with arising feelings or social identity
issues, here is a link you might enjoy Otherwise just ask, many here on the forum have well-founded experience. ANDREW: There has been a sense of space in front of my physical
eyes. Like I can lean into the future, the world has space. When looking at flowers they are somehow more there. VINEETO: This is great – but take care not to get distracted dreaming about the future too much – now is the only moment you can actually experience and this is where life is happening. It is here where “looking at flowers” shows you more and more of actuality, and if you pay attention and appreciate, you can discover that matter and fauna and flora are not merely passive. Enjoy the adventure. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks so much Vineeto ! I have not had such a success as far as I can recall (excluding the possibility that I am cunningly not remembering it). It’s a powerful imagination of mine right now to think of the weather you are probably experiencing right now, and yet such a detailed and thorough message from you has arrived in my journal. I felt more encouraged by this success yesterday than perhaps ever before (excluding the possibility of me deliberately forgetting for cunning purposes). I even remembered that the actualism method is the enjoy and appreciate, when the habit arose to become bogged down in some intellectualism about how I felt. There has been a sense of space in front of my physical eyes. Like I can lean into the future,
the world has space. When looking at flowers they are somehow more there. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, I am responding to this post again because there has been no input from you or answer to my post to you (you may not even have read it yet) – instead you were busy philosophising and intellectualising on unrelated topics in great length on other threads. I can only conclude from this that being “encouraged by this success” did not last very long, and you chose to escape into “Classic intellectualisation” which is the more familiar territory. Do you really want to run away for the rest of your life because you are afraid to find out what you are afraid of, and prefer keep escaping into diversions of endless and fruitless philosophising and intellectualising? You don’t even know yet what it is you are afraid of because investigating your fear requires that you allow yourself to feel the feeling. Maybe part of James’ conversations with Richard on a very similar topic may give you pause to absorb, contemplate and reflect on, and perhaps become fascinated by, what direction you want to give your life, after your short encouraging success with paying attention as to how you feel? There is soo much more to life than intellectualising, fruitless rebellion, and ivory tower philosophising. Remember, you said “When looking at flowers they are somehow more there”?
A change to more enjoyment and appreciation is in your hands and your hands alone. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks for the follow up, Vineeto. Indeed a quick thankyou or acknowledgement on my part would have been polite. Sorry about that. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, I don’t need an acknowledgement or an apology – the reason I wrote was to remind you that you started something beneficial for yourself and then went back to your age-old habit instead of persisting and following up on your initial success. ANDREW: To your conclusion that I have retreated into classical intellectualisation, and forgotten the success, I will have to consider that a bit more. I was definitely becoming engaged in the evolution of consciousness discussion, and struggled to stay in a feeling good mood, and identified that I was pushing an agenda which I offered or decided to end the discussion if it was getting in Claudiu’s way. Perhaps ending it for my own peace of mind would have been more sensible. I was enjoying the “intellectualism” I guess, as it is stimulating to have thought about and even discussed the topic of Jayne’s book. It was this book that put the nail in the coffin , at least intellectually, regarding the existence of God. VINEETO: It’s good to hear that Jayne’s book liberated you from your belief in God but if I remember correctly, that happened already years ago and there is no need to carry this gratitude (a feeling which binds you to the past) for ever and a day. Something you now can unburden yourself from. ANDREW: The discussion with Scout was actually quite fun today. I was laughing and running around with a bowl of water seeing if I it would boil in the sun light! On top of that, I was able to continue coding a trading strategy (my ongoing “Improve my lot” goal). Spoke with my son who is 21 today, had a laugh, planned for some outings. Went for a long walk, and generally was in a good mood. All that being said, it’s a sound observation that all that intellectual and philosophical type discussion, or scientific discussion, does lead me to be in my head and not maximising feeling good, it is as you say “familiar territory”. VINEETO: You are aware, are you not, that the actualism method is not to maintain feeling good at any price, for instance via pushing away any diminishment in feeling good by ignoration or distraction? Perhaps a refresher of Richard’s recommendation is useful –
ANDREW: A sort of conditional feeling good, often flat, or even a
bit anxious, as it is very dependent on what others are saying and writing and is easy to be caught up in feeling
less than good and “grinding” harder on the intellectual discussion to try and feel good via it, rather
than stopping and getting back to feeling good deliberately. VINEETO: Here you gave a precise description how feeling good diminished and you used your old coping tactics, which you know don’t work in the long run. Why not try something new for a change. Stop and feel out what lies underneath this feeling a bit “flat”, or “anxious”. By allowing to feel it you can get the information what is wrong, what is the cause – be it some ‘should’ or ‘shouldn’t’ you have violated and which validity you can now question, some deeper feeling being covered up or perhaps just a habit which on inspection makes no sense to continue. Here is a perfect way to make your intelligence work for your well-being instead of only abstract discussions (which can be fun). When more persistent feelings happen, then the quote I sent in my last post applies –
See how you go and don’t give up before you start. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto, Indeed, I was wondering about those moments that I clearly was flat or anxiety about the discussion was there, what was the attraction to continue? Why persist past while it’s clear I did let myself “forget” the recent success? I can see I need to be far more “ruthless” in catching this habit. VINEETO: Well, in a recent post you talked about being a friend to oneself – being “ruthless” doesn’t sound very friendly. Why not be interested, attentive, fascinated (as you would be with an interesting person you meet) and discover and explore what within the human condition (for which you are not to blame) is preventing you from freely enjoying and appreciating this very moment of being alive, the only moment you can actually experience. ANDREW: I had really only been considering intellectualisation in relation to how I deal with feelings. With the endless complications and theory, and rumination, etc … but the flip side is when the habit is “somewhat” enjoyable, but in a very roller coaster way. Where I am pursuing a point, or trying to convince someone, or teach, or save, or appear smart, or let some mission take over, which has a feeling of obligation to it. VINEETO: Yes, one gets into a groove with some habits, particularly when the new and unknown way of living appears to be somewhat daunting. Richard described his own experience –
ANDREW: I will keep looking into these feelings that arose over the last 2 days that did turn the “flower being more there” into normal me, intellectualising and basically ignoring the obvious, I was not feeling good anymore, and I was justifying it habitually. VINEETO: You’ll be amazed how much you discover and learn about yourself, and thus about the human condition in general, when you stop ignoring (and pat yourself on the back for catching it) and allow the prevalent feeling to inform you what is going on underneath the surface. But get back to feeling good first before you attempt any deeper exploration else an emotionally charged thinking-process will lead you round in circles. ANDREW: That’s very cool though, that the habit can be worked on
all the time! The feelings can be experienced because I am not tempted to intellectualise them, and further not lose
contact with the feelings because I am habitually intellectualising about everything else too! VINEETO: Excellent. Have fun in your adventure of uncovering the mystery of ‘you’. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thank Vineeto, I thought twice about using the word “ruthless”, and decided it was appropriate because it did not feel personal. (…) Gentleness, and knowledge that I will fail, and will try again, seems the way forward. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, What is wrong with “be interested, attentive, fascinated (as you would be with an interesting person you meet)”? – you would be far more involved and thus successful than merely being “gentle”, which has the connotation of being cautious.
ANDREW: Because of the way this habit squashes feelings, and the way it easily seems to be intelligent to think in certain ways, it’s quite tricky. I had a reasonable day. This contemplating was continually there. What is intellectualisation? Am I doing it now? How does that thing I am looking at seem? Do I seem closer to it? Or am I further away? Is there the feeling of excitement still there? Did I forget already? VINEETO: The best way to find out if you are intellectualising is to check if you are feeling good or if something has diminished your enjoyment and appreciation. ANDREW: Am I lost now, or am I exploring something new? The trap of ‘intellectualisation’ is just how thorough it is. How completely it takes over. VINEETO: The best way to find out if you are intellectualising is to check if you are feeling good or if something has diminished your enjoyment and appreciation. ANDREW: I am encouraged that it’s going to take more than a casual effort to make headway, because something about it is “all encompassing”. The very word “intellectualisation” is one of the English words that sounds like what it describes! Like “Splash”, or “Discombobulated”. VINEETO: Ha, that’s a good word – etymology: ““Discombobulate” is considered a pseudo-Latinism, meaning it's a word that sounds like it's from Latin but is actually a made-up word.” (Dictionary.com) It has indeed a meaningful connection to intellectualisation in that it sounds sophisticated but has no merit in fact. ANDREW: I like that in all these years there is a single word I can go back to and say, “this has been so much of ‘my’ existence, most of my waking moments! I wonder what life will be like on the other side of it?” VINEETO: You didn’t perchance leave out the ‘n’ in “my waking moments”? ANDREW: I appreciate what you said after Richard died, that there was an opening to push through. You didn’t use those words, something to the effect of making the most of an opportunity. There really is something happening. I won’t speculate though. VINEETO: It is never too late to join the party, it’s in full swing, naiveté reigns supreme. Here is what I wrote at the time –
Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: My day began in the usual way, tired, not looking forward to the freeway, but generally wanting to keep making a go at the actualism method and rid myself of this habit of intellectualising and mental culpicity in ‘my’ continued ‘existence’. Driving in the peak hour traffic, I had an extended amount of time to consider what could work. The instructions are clear enough, have been clear for something like 13 years now, it’s the approach that has been lacking. After considering that I rarely even know definitely why I am feeling less than good, it seemed sensible that the first thing to do was to listen attentively to myself explain how I am feeling. The goal being to keep talking and keep listening. No jumping in like an obnoxious person who already ‘knows’ what is wrong. So, I did this. I did this multiple times during the day. Just asked myself how am I experiencing things, and listening to my best efforts to discover what each feeling and thought is. And then, nothing more than that. No hypothesis, no moralistic ‘actualismisms’ no half remembered theory, or psychological pontificating. Just internal talking, listening, follow up questions. Rinse and repeat at many times during the day and I am genuinely in a good mood. That’s a win. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, An excellent approach – and it worked to put you “genuinely in a good mood”. Listening to how you feel you will be able to get rid of various habits that managed to get you in a bad mood before and with this way of listening, i.e. paying attention, and awareness to how you feel, they cannot be maintained. As long as you don’t hold any of your feelings at arm’s length via your previous habits, you will notice that instead of having a feeling, you are the feeling. Should this feeling be an unpleasant feeling, then, by being the feeling, it is easy to choose being a pleasant, felicitous feeling instead. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Naiveté is something I have been afraid of because I am mistaking it for something else! I am afraid of the consequences ‘I’ insert after naiveté is there. So, to use Peter and Vineeto’s chart, which is a divergence diagram. A moment of ‘naivete’ happens. (the closest a ‘self’ can be to innocent). Then, a moment of ‘blind desire’ happens. Then a moment of ‘morality’ happens. I am sequencing them, but I feel them all together. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, So you discovered Peter’s map and you figured that the next thing to tackle is naiveté. And without reading any further, you jump right in and ‘blind desire’ and ‘morality’ happens. Have you ever used Cabot’s paint? Here is what it says on the tin – “if all else fails, read the instructions” – they know of people’s tendency to assume they already know what to do. First let me clarify – this is not naiveté as Peter and Richard describe it – To be naïve is to be like a child again but with adult sensibilities.
I recommend to read and immerse yourself in as much information as you can find at the links of the above Library page in order to get a flavour of this state of being which of course would be quite new to you. ANDREW: My fear of naiveté, is entwined with unrequited desire, and resentment of morality. VINEETO: You also said – ANDREW: Normal ‘me’ experience of naiveté; buy motorcycle. Fly
to other side of world after a girl. Start misguided business … etc, etc. Nothing “wrong” with these
activities, but they failed to bring freedom, because they are what they are, desire tacked onto the initial naiveté. VINEETO: Your ideas, and hence your perception of naiveté sound more like the description of the opposite of depression in a bi-polar personality – unsustainable. Hence your “fear of naiveté” is derived from an imagined naiveté (you wouldn’t have been like this as a child, I presume) and you are quite right to avoid such behaviour or attitude. ANDREW: However, a moment of “wide eyed wonder, of joyous
celebration, of playful abandon” is nothing to be afraid of, frustrated about, or angry towards! VINEETO: Yes. Here is another enticing description from Richard –
Now how to you access that? Reach back into your earliest memories and discover the hidden-away-during-puberty childhood naïveté, the one which was driven out of you because it was “entwined with unrequited desire, and resentment of morality” and gullibility. You can nevertheless ‘disentwine’ those attributes, and attentively, in a friendly way, encourage naiveté whilst making sure to distinguish it from impulsiveness and gullibility. ANDREW: What’s the other path like? The one that diverges into
feeling good without needing a particular desire fulfilled? VINEETO: Ha, it’s the same path that you have been travelling along since our recent conversations – which you reported worked well. It’s called the actualism method. Here is some more – you’ll find the word naiveté there too –
It takes a while to get the knack and the courage to get used to the simplicity of naiveté but it is well worthwhile and truly fun when you do (and don’t let ‘me’, the sabotaging controller redefine/ spoil the game). Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Joined a couple of dots just then… Last night when trying to sleep I was fantasising about how successful I am going to be with actualism. I recognised it was another intellectualism being fuelled by a feeling. It was obviously ‘hope’. First time I think I have considered looking at nipping hope in the bud! Anyway, the dots joined; going to sleep realising ‘hope’ is a waste of sleep time, the morning was full of ‘doubt’. A tag team of ‘me’ now giving up the psychic energy to the cause! A very generous donation even if ‘I’ say so ‘myself’. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, If you genuinely realized that “‘hope’ is a waste of sleep time” and apparently doubt is as well, and therefore you are “giving up the psychic energy”, then why do you consider this “giving up” of fruitless feelings/beliefs a “very generous donation”? In other words, where is the virtue in throwing out rubbish? ANDREW: Peter’s quote on the front page of the AFT was last night’s contemplation.
VINEETO: To contribute to your ongoing contemplation, let me first put the two instances of this quote in context –
What “this level of ‘self’-sacrifice” refers to in both quotes is the willingness to contemplate “being happy and harmless, free of malice and sorrow, 99% of the time”. The reason why Peter called it a level of ‘self’-sacrifice is because it requires courage and persistence to change one’s habits and remove the affective obstacles and beliefs (including ideas, principles, ideation, faith, trust, intuitions, reliance on factoids, anything one is fervently wishing to be true) including a natural tendency of addiction to suffering to being enjoyment and appreciation each moment again – in other words, non-biological altruism. This is not to be confused with the biologically altruistic (once-in-a-lifetime) ‘self’-sacrifice of one’s entire ‘self’, one’s ‘being’, one’s ‘presence’ which will result in ‘my’ extinction resulting in an actual freedom –
ANDREW: I made some notes about it, as a way to parse something I would normally have glossed over. (The following questions are me asking myself, not specifically questions for the forum) What is ‘self’ sacrifice in terms of Peter’s quote? Is being happy and harmless for the rest of one’s life ‘self’ sacrifice VINEETO: Enjoying and appreciating, and thus being happy and harmless as much as humanly
possible, is, in short, non-biological altruism because becoming virtually free it requires giving up those aspects
of ‘me’ (‘self’) who indulge in (perhaps even revel in and enjoy) feeling and acting maliciously and
sorrowfully. As you may have noticed, not many people like to give up any of their precious feelings, hence
rigorous social conditioning backed-up by police and army is required in every society. Even you, in your last post ANDREW: It sounds selfish. Yet here, from Peter, truly dedicating ‘myself’ to being happy and harmless is ‘self’ sacrifice! How can that be? VINEETO: You are not seriously telling me that you cannot see how you becoming more happy and more harmless (considerate and innocuous) will benefit those you interact with as well as your own well-being? Let me give you a hint –
The reason why wanting to enjoy and appreciate (and be happy and harmless) “sounds selfish” to you is because you only consider the choice between two alternatives – being ‘selfish’ as opposed to being unselfish. Actualism is the third alternative – eliminate ‘self’ in its entirety and thus make both real-world and spiritual world morals and ethics redundant –
When you become more felicitous and innocuous you benefit both yourself and others around you.
Additionally, you reduce emanating malicious and sorrowful vibes. * ANDREW: I considered what had struck me yesterday about naivete being usurped by puberty. That is, ‘I’ did it to ‘myself’ in the normal progression of becoming ‘me’. VINEETO: Ha, a clear example of ‘I’ claiming a deed which occurred of its own accord via pubertal hormones. ANDREW: So it starts to click. Why am ‘I’ not already naturally happy and harmless? It’s not ‘my’ natural state. ‘I’ am in the way of it. VINEETO: Indeed, being happy and harmless is not your ‘natural state’ – your ‘natural state’ is being equipped with a full set of instinctual passions (fear and aggression) plus the ‘natural’ pacifiers (desire and nurture). Aiming to be the enjoyment and appreciation each moment of your life is a very unnatural aim – hence all of your ‘being’ plus your social conditioning will throw up objections to any change. ANDREW: Ok, so it is ‘I’ who must, at the very least, change radically! Clear on this point. VINEETO: Excellent. Actualism is indeed not ‘natural’. Hence changing “radically” is required. ANDREW: Why is it a sacrifice? Considering ‘I’ am the primary beneficiary? VINEETO: Perhaps this has been answered in the previous section. Let me know if anything remained unclear. In short, what Peter is talking about is a sacrifice because to become virtually free of malice and sorrow and be able to enjoy and appreciate being alive, the ‘self’ has to become thinner – give up indulgence and relinquish your ‘natural’ tendency to malice and sorrow. The actual beneficiary will be your flesh-and-blood body, that body and every body. I snipped the following ruminations as you seem to answered most in your follow-up post yourself. ANDREW: In the experiential sense, in the ‘real’ world of my ‘own’ making, ‘I’
am rather having a progressively great time. VINEETO: This is excellent to hear. * ANDREW: Writing that out, using my notes I made, I have made a connection between the two examples of what “sacrifice” has meant to me (religious and parental/societal) and the ‘self’ sacrifice described by the AFT. ‘I’ was doing the former (not killing goats and bulls! but rather repression and negation, “the straight and narrow” path) and the later (working hard for my family, being a good citizen etc) ultimately for ‘myself’. For ‘my’ salvation. For ‘my’ legacy. For ‘my’ reputation. Also, many sacrifices were directly done to get something ‘I’ wanted. Mostly, “getting the girl”, or trying to keep her happy! The connection being obvious then, ‘I’ am still being encouraged to sacrifice however there is a singular goal, which is something ‘I’ am not naturally inclined to ‘be’, or ‘I’ would already ‘be’ it; happy and harmless. This is something I will continue to contemplate. VINEETO: Your ongoing reflections turn out to be quite fruitful. Now it’s a matter of putting them into practice. ANDREW: As I had always glossed over statements like Peter’s on the AFT with something like “you can’t get rid of me that easily!”. Which in reflection has an unfortunate double meaning. VINEETO: When you write out your reflection on Peter’s statement in an existentially meaningful manner, it has no longer “an unfortunate double meaning” – [example]: you can’t get rid of ‘me’ that easily! [end example]. Have you noticed that often humour relies on a (slightly) malicious undertone in order to be funny? Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: If you genuinely realized that “‘hope’ is a waste of sleep time” and apparently doubt is as well, and therefore you are “giving up the psychic energy”, then why do you consider this “giving up” of fruitless feelings/beliefs a “very generous donation”? In other words, where is the virtue in throwing out rubbish? ANDREW: Hi Vineeto, I was making a joke, however it was not well
set up. Perhaps also, it was an example of what Kuba was noticing about deliberately wanting to be misunderstood. It makes it funnier actually to picture two feelings (like two church goers) putting something in the collection, but that something is bits of rubbish! (…) VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Thank you for explaining the joke to me – I see you already understood that abandoning useless/ fruitless habits and beliefs is something to rejoice in and not a loss at all. ANDREW: On that topic, of how consistent it is, reading Srinath’s website he emphasized using the scale of rating how one is generally feeling from “bad, neutral, good, great, excellent, perfect” which obviously I had read, but not considered using this scale consistently. It was a good way to be able to better gauge my day, as in the way I could get the noticing of a dip in feeling good, without any immediate need to be too specific in that moment. Which has always been the opening to intellectualism. That is, I know I am feeling bad, but I don’t call it that. I will start looking for reasons, and such. So my day is far easier to gauge how it is going. For example, today was mostly “neutral” with decent pockets of “good” and a few spikes of “bad”. With that in mind, it’s far easier to now think back and contemplate each part of the day, what triggered the spikes of bad, why there was so much neutral (what feelings are hiding out in anonymity there I wonder? Hmm), and what got me back to feeling good. This gives me useful “homework”. A decent percentage of the feeling good times are triggered by remembering that I am having success. VINEETO: Excellent – appreciating success is a great habit to cultivate – it increases enjoyment and gives encouragement to proceed. ANDREW: This morning, driving in the traffic again, I reacted with instant anger, swearing out loud and honking the horn at someone cutting in. Without describing the whole event, it really gave me a lot to consider on the rest of the drive. It was so automatic and instant, I was stunned actually. VINEETO: To discover the full force with which one’s anger can erupt is certainly educational and can give you pause to contemplate how such a relatively unimportant trigger can produce such an effect. Was there perhaps already a build-up of frustration? Is there an underlying belief of principles of ‘my’ rights? Or something else? ANDREW: I have plenty to contemplate now. As your clarifications
about Peter’s quote, and Richard’s quote have injected new enthusiasm into just what I can do more of. VINEETO: You are welcome, Andrew. Even if the question might appear trivial it can provide astounding clarity when answered. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: All day today however, I have been questioning more, as in an ongoing pondering, on how to get out of “neutral” more, but it hasn’t so far been obvious. Now you ask the question; VINEETO: Was there perhaps already a build-up of frustration? ANDREW: That definitely rings a bell. I will look at this more tonight. Though my initial thoughts are that I would rather be very many other places than stuck in traffic then attending 8 hours of work (although I do like my job) then stuck in traffic again. Thankfully, my broken ribs have healed enough that I could ride my motorcycle to work, which is naturally more enjoyable (whilst not being a pleasure as such, the freeway is not naturally a pleasant ride). VINEETO: Good, that is a practical solution. However, there is more … ANDREW: On the topic of built up frustrations, I had been, until last week end pushing myself to improve “my lot” with the goal of not being so financially dependent on a “9-5” job. The recent success of feeling mostly neutral, with pockets of good, and minimal bad, gave that goal some needed mental space. I am thinking far clearer than I was before. However, such an endeavour, however successful it may eventually be, isn’t the answer for “now”. I was investigating a lot of time and energy into it, and it became clear last night that there was a lot of hope and scheming in it. With that reduced now, I have seen ways to improve the plan I had. However, before getting back into that plan, I need to dig into my current situation and improve my mood regardless of any future changes in my living conditions. Now is when I am alive, and tomorrow will most likely come, and so will the freeway, and work! VINEETO: That is a very good outcome of contemplation. When you attempt to “to improve ‘my lot’” the way you have done so far, i.e. with pushing yourself and generally in a ‘fighting the world’ mode, the outcome is likely to be frustration, exhaustion, and building-up anger and anxiety. Can you see a way to do it by being friendly with yourself – and others – and by allowing yourself to enjoy the things you have to do, or you want to do, and by appreciating this moment of being alive? Perhaps even a bit more in a naïve way? Richard’s approach to make enjoyment easier might also appeal to you –
ANDREW: It may be eventually that a “sea change” is part of the solution. A physical move to an environment more naturally conducive to well being. VINEETO: Even though you have a long-term goal but that doesn’t need to exclude you in the meantime from enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive. ANDREW: As it is, my days are vastly more enjoyable at a constant “neutral” with pockets of “good”, and very little “bad”. However, I will need to dig deeper, as it is obvious enough that greater dedication to uncovering built up frustrations, social identity beliefs etc is needed. VINEETO: These days of “a constant ‘neutral’” are clearly worth of investigation. They still indicate being a product of habitual dis-association or bulging the carpet, under which some unwanted feelings are hiding. Here I found a succinct description of the actualism method –
ANDREW: The main conclusion I came to through the day was what Claudiu suggested about “remembering” the fresh feeling I had described as a way of tracking back to feeling good. That and leaning into pure intent when that feeling of well-being is there. I am feeling a freshness when I do that, and as I am well aware that a steadfast connection to pure intent is essential before “whittling away” at any otherwise important to keep ‘me’ in check socialisation. That was the direction of the pondering today, leaning into and remembering that fresh feeling, and learning what it is to have a connection with pure intent (learning obviously what it is to begin with!) VINEETO: That is an excellent suggestion from Claudiu. ANDREW: I am learning to nip in the bud any meandering theorising and stick with a few very clear recent successes. (My feelings are not informing me of facts about the world around me, and there is a distinct experience that happens when something “hits home”, being the two that are the most easily remembered). VINEETO: Be careful though, not to confuse ‘nipping in the bud’ with suppressing unwanted feelings –
Even though “feelings are not informing me of facts about the world around me” they nevertheless inform you about how you feel, and if it is not feeling good, it informs you that there is something to look at and to dismantle the obstacle (once you get back to feeling good) – so that it does not happen again and again. ANDREW: I think at the moment, a decent reading session of the AFT
is in order. So much of our recent conversations could be more productive on my part, if I were to go through and use
this latest success to read “with my eyes open”. VINEETO: This is an excellent plan. Claudiu produced a search engine specifically for the AFT website, accessible on the homepage (icon at the top right hand corner). Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ found that each time, after making some progress, ‘she’ found more hints and clues in Richard’s writing, even though ‘she’ had read the pages before. It does take a while to take it all in – after all, actualism is a new paradigm, and as feeling being one tends to read a lot through one’s previous template of beliefs, principles, morals and ethics, and all the rest of one’s conditioning. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: I had done some AFT reading last night, and in the morning, especially rereading the “peasant mentality” articles and discussions. I decided that now I was feeling good, I would go for a walk. For the purposes of setting the scene for the success later, I am living in a rich suburb which is very peaceful and situated next to the river. Feeling that “fresh feeling” that I am learning to look out for and sustain, I was enjoying a picturesque experience as the sun and breeze enhanced the freshness. I was looking at all the extremely expensive houses by the river, enjoying looking at them and gardens, and seeing the balconies I liked, and magnificent gum trees. After a while I started to critique a few houses I didn’t like. An internal dialogue of criticism. I noticed within 50 meters that the fresh feeling wasn’t there! It was so obvious what had happened. The “tracing back to when I last felt good” was only 50 meters behind me! Identifying what ‘I’ had done, and rememorating the fresh feeling, and it was back! I am very pleased with this event. I don’t remember ever having so obviously and swiftly affectively noticed “feeling good” ceasing, and got back to feeling good simply be identifying when it ceased. Now, obviously, being in an affluent suburb, by an peaceful river, in the lovely late afternoon sun with Perth’s famous “freo doctor” breeze on my face, was a big part of giving me this experience. However, it still was the method as advertised! A win is a win, as they say. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, This is a great example of the actualism method in practice, and I am pleased that you can appreciate your discovery as well. It’s a recipe for success to refrain from a habit of criticising anything and everything for no good reason other than it doesn’t please your trained/conditioned eye – or anything else for that matter which has nothing to do with your life and well-being. There is a big difference between judging/assessing a thing, a situation, and habitually dishing out criticism. ANDREW:
ANDREW: This really helps me. To sort the “big ticket”
items, from the normal “dollar store” stuff. Today, was a classic “big ticket” item for me,
(catching myself after going off on an internal criticism, which is a very common theme, it was in the form of an
imaginary lecture of sorts to some undefined audience). I know this, because I have felt good ever since. VINEETO: I see you are finding some good advice to continue to feel good and put it to good use – rather than go mooching around in neutral. You may also be interested in this text from ‘Vineeto’ – How to investigate feelings. It includes part of the actualism method with illuminating tool tips. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: I have been reading a lot more of the AFT. Essentially, from the start! As I have been interested for so long, there is a lot that I thought I knew. Some things I never really read and I had never dealt with the feelings I would have, caused by the various expectations I had when first encountering Actualism. There are some insights into various current feelings, specifically being able to put them in categories. Sounds basic, but for example, I had never looked at what boredom is. There is definitely aggression there. Overall, I can see that I am gathering up some intent. Lots of it has been scattered around,
over the years, but without a clear understanding of exactly how to proceed from where I am at. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, I vaguely remember that “there has always been a lot of aggression in my way of being”. I particularly remember one sentence because it struck me as a summary of a gloomy modus operandi – “I gird myself each morning for battle”. I am so pleased that you are now finding your way out of this life-long paradigm, and are having fun with discovering more about the tools and aims of the actualism method, which you already had success with. ANDREW: I have been gathering up more information from the AFT, going back into all the things I never understood, or had objected to, or only half read. Currently, reading through the accounts of the time around Peter and yourself becoming free, Richard’s last writing, his experience with being the first and what was causing that mental anguish. That last one has actually, only about 30 mins ago, sparked something in me. Being the first to realise that all the godmen were completely insane! But not just realise, to be as he put it
ANDREW: This account gives me courage. VINEETO: I am curious in what way this account of Richard’s one-off period of mental anguish – while he was working out what this entirely new experience of human consciousness was all about – gives you courage? I say one-off because now that Richard made sense of it and expressed and described it eloquently in millions of words, nobody has to ever go through this experience again. Courage perhaps in that becoming actually free has become so much easier? ANDREW: It is going to be a chore to get this up and going, and there is already that feeling/ thought that I am mad to be trying this at all. VINEETO: You already have started “to get this up and going” and you already had success noticing some bad habits and declining them. It takes a lot worse events to be “mad” – but your life will certainly change considerably. ANDREW: However, when I consider the alternatives, …there are
none! Been there, done that! VINEETO: You are absolutely correct – and before the discovery of an actual freedom from the human condition it was impossible to “consider the alternatives” and discard them. That is truly cause for celebration and for enjoying and appreciating being alive (and using the tools Richard gave us when there is some hick-up to this enjoyment and appreciation). Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: I am curious in what way this account of Richard’s one-off period of mental anguish – while he was working out what this entirely new experience of human consciousness was all about – gives you courage? ANDREW: The way is gives me courage is that if he can go through all of that, on his own as far as what was happening to him, and its implications, and of course the entire experience itself of being like a “bad trip” 3 times a day!, then surely I can keep making progress this time, as I am not on my own. I have you and this forum, the AFT, and a fresh start each day. I am not having to go through war, or mental breakdowns et al. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Thank you for explaining it to me. I am pleased to read you have been encouraged that you “can
keep making progress this time” as you are “not on my own” like Richard was. Besides, there
is now a Direct Route ANDREW: I can get “on the front foot” with my
experiences, prepared with what I have learnt. Especially over the last 2 months in beginning to think clearly (going
back to the initial question) and the last few weeks of renewed enthusiasm and successes. VINEETO: I remember that it was also a wonderful and encouraging experience for ‘Vineeto’ to use ‘her’ brain again for what it is intended –
ANDREW to Kuba: One that really had that feeling of freshness come back was reading this;
I still had an expectation that Actual Freedom was something more like
a cosmic mind/ intelligence. Not that I ever had that explicit thought, but it was still there. There was a lot that
on reading it all again, from the “long awaited announcements” and reports, that I now see I was fitting it
all into a convoluted religio-spiritual devotee mindset. A mystic, if you will. VINEETO: Yes, this is quite understandable – after all, Richard often said that an actual freedom is “unbelievable, unimaginable, inconceivable and incomprehensible”. Fortunately he has left us many detailed descriptions of how he experienced life in the actual world. One of the most astounding experiences for me is that it is always now, that this moment is ever-fresh –
He was such a master of words as well. Here are some more, for your delectation and apprehension so that your previous conception/ mindset can definitely be replaced now with a more factual understanding.
*
*
*
*
You’ll find more descriptions in Richard’s Selected Correspondence Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: I was looking forward to reporting a successful day. I could feel the desire to feel good welling up and somewhat running the show all day. It was very pleasant and I enjoyed the momentum of it. It lasted solidly until early afternoon, when I couldn’t deal with a particular habit that a co-worker has. It’s the same habit my mother has, and I haven’t quite seen how to deal with it yet. The habit is incessantly talking to me about her life, with intricate details about people I often do not know (especially in the case of the female co-worker) at great length, when it is plainly obvious that I have no interest, and in the case at work, have work to do. It feels like a deliberate assault of common decency. I don’t have a lot of tolerance for endless stories about things which have no relevance to me. (…) Haha, I just realised that it’s not just ‘me’ in the world! I have been so focused in the last few days on ‘myself’ that the fact that such a thing happened is like that famous New York line from the movies when someone crosses the street in front of cars, “Can’t you see I’m walking here!” “Can’t you see I am feeling good? !! Leave me alone!” VINEETO: Hi Andrew, I cut out a big chunk of the 794 words of whinging as it is not nice to any reader to be subjected to such length of negative feelings/ vibes even once, let along twice. You discovered you are irritated, i.e. angry, about a certain behaviour of a co-worker, and you give the reason that it was something your mother did frequently. Additionally, you were fighting this feeling and thus increasing its strength and prolonging its occurrence. 1. The first thing is to get back to feeling good. When in the grip of strong feelings it is obvious that you cannot think straight. 2. You do this by declining to object to the feeling itself, this feeling about objecting to/resenting the situation you are in. This way the feeling will automatically decrease in strength because you are no longer feeding the negative energy by objecting to it. Then it’s easier to get back to feeling good. 3. When you are ready to have a closer look, the next thing is to check if this irritating behaviour is something ‘I’ do myself – at least this is what worked for feeling being ‘Vineeto’. Going by your post, this could well be a possibility. 4. To admit that this is the case you obviously need to be friends with yourself enough to be genuinely interested in how you tick without condemning yourself for what you uncover. 5. As there is very possibly pride and self-righteousness involved (“it’s all their fault, I am in the right here”) as well as territorial beliefs and feelings (as in “how dare they intrude in my space”), it might take some time to unravel. 6. When you discover that you know this kind of behaviour quite well from your own experience, not just on the receiving end but especially the ‘presenting it’ aspect as well, then it will be much easier to emotionally accept it not only in yourself (because you are committed to no longer indulge such feelings but also when other people do it to you. And when you are not feeling antagonistic as in “leave me alone” but genuinely recognize them as a fellow human beings (endowed with the same instinctual passions and feelings as you are), then there is most likely the possibility for an amicable, or at least straightforwardly sincere, resolution. For instance, just like yourself, almost every feeling being wants to be acknowledged, respected
and understood by their co-habitants in the real world (i.e. It’s a good realisation. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: This helps me understand how I am also doing this behaviour. It is as Richard put it
I do in other ways. Obviously, I chose at some point to single out my mother’s style of demanding
recognition as being particularly obnoxious, but I do this very thing in my own way. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, So you had some good pickings and insights – don’t forget them as the desire for recognition doesn’t disappear in a day. ‘I’/ ‘me’ being an ultimately fictitious entity, only kept in place by swirling passions, is by its very nature inexhaustibly voracious to be substantiated and confirmed over and over again by recognition from feeling beings including yourself. Hence the “background feeling of rawness” you were experiencing. ANDREW: Last night and today I was back to feeling good. Had a lovely time with my mother for her
birthday, and interacted with new freshness with my colleagues. It was the ‘mother load’, if you will; converging and well repressed resentment, rebellion, pride, sexism, financial irresponsibility, practical injustice, false loyalty, peasant mentality, entitlement. An exposé of petty demands, and a display that my “precious” is SO much more “precious” than anyone else’s. VINEETO: This is a great recognition and pinpointing of feelings associated with the need/ the desire for recognition. This acknowledgement and enumeration will serve you well to discern and dismantle instances of those feelings when they appear. Don’t give up until you have recognized and abandoned them all as ‘furphies’. ANDREW: I took my mother out to where my father used to, KFC by the river and watch the sunset. She was very happy to be there. I have noticed that she will light up when I am playful and spontaneous like my father was. My co-workers were thoroughly listened to, with full attention and a well-timed joke. Again, a playful Andrew seems
to be quite popular. VINEETO: An excellent outcome of your investigations – being “playful and spontaneous” can become your new default way of being when you pay diligent affective attention to any diminishment of this enjoyment, ease and appreciation. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, It’s a pleasure. * VINEETO: … inexhaustibly voracious to be substantiated and confirmed over and over again by recognition from feeling beings including yourself. [Emphasis by Andrew]. ANDREW: This was also a reason that I “blew up” the other day; a pride in doing well,
and being proven to not be doing so well, when something relatively minor happened. The fear is losing. Losing what little success I have, in a moment. VINEETO: There is a very simple solution. Make a pact with yourself not to beat yourself up when emotions come to the surface (optimally before expressing them) that are presently not on your list of wanted/ appreciated emotions. Rather pat yourself on the back for every new discovery and tackling the obstacle. Also remember, to put *everything* in your life on a preference basis then you can be winner big time, I mean in the grand scheme of life and in every moment of your life. It can look like this –
Every surfacing emotion is part of the adventure to find out how you tick, to explore and discover, and the human condition naturally involves the full range of feeling, not just the socially accepted ones or the ones that you favour. Every one is a challenge, an opportunity and, when welcomed, a step to move forward. ANDREW: I am going to ponder this point and see what happens. I don’t see an option to anticipate another trigger, a pre-emptive strike, as the future doesn’t give clues because it doesn’t exist, yet. It really seems that it’s a matter of bravery. Walking happily into the unknown, not knowing what the next “stubbed toe in the dark” is going to be. VINEETO: If you welcome every emotion as being what you are and be friendly with yourself, then every event is a possibility for success. ANDREW: My thoughts have been coming back to what the ultimate aim is. As in, actual freedom. Thinking out loud, there are going to have to be mistakes. Experiments. Or I will be meandering around in feeling good, rather than mooching around feeling neutral, but no closer to activating greater naïveté. VINEETO: Wouldn’t “be meandering around in feeling good” much better than your previous modus operandi? Change your value-system – there are no mistakes, only opportunities to learn – and feeling foolish can be the door to naiveté (where you like yourself and others). ANDREW: Without PCE experience and the understanding that comes from that, a lot of what we talk
about, or I read about, I have to take as a premise, rather than a personally verified fact. VINEETO: With sincerity you have the key to naiveté and naiveté allows you to invite a PCE.
Check out this link Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: The audacity to feel good all the time, come what may!!! Nice. Very nice indeed. Now that’s something I can channel my subversive tendency towards! ANDREW: So I hereby give myself permission to feel good, happy & harmless, in all circumstances, come what may. Over-riding all socially prescribed appropriate moods, reactions, and expectations. An executive order, unilaterally executed, with no power of veto granted to any party, circumstance, or condition. Rain, hail or shine, in sickness and in health, forsaking all other directives, missives,
constitutions, allotments, franchises, contracts, agreements, treaties, implied or otherwise. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, You just took the wrong turn-off – here is the sign, just like at all wrong entries on Australian high-ways: “Wrong Way, TURN BACK”. Without the pure intent to be happy and harmless there is no way you can give yourself a categorically overarching permission for “forsaking all other directives, missives, constitutions, allotments, franchises, contracts, agreements, treaties, implied or otherwise.” This is not “audacity”, this is plainly your “subversive tendency” taking back command. Please, first find out experientially about pure intent before being guided by “audacity” and other fool-hardy actions.
Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Contemplating the less than good, but better than neutral mood
while falling asleep, it occurred to me the morality around when one is allowed to “feel good/happy”. Extreme hypotheticals put this morality in sharp relief. ANDREW: Josef is correct in that my unilateral declaration, was my answer to my own realisation… I reacted strongly to Vineeto’s post, and decided that I would need to keep my hands in my pockets for a few days to work out how to proceed. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, It’s good you are writing in your private journal now as well, as I never knew which of your posts were private contemplations or meant for public consumption and comment. I took you literally, especially the exuberance in your expressions of “subversive tendency”, “no power of veto” and “forsaking all other directives” and hence issued a strong warning so you won’t harm yourself, or others, in the process. I am also not sure how much of actualism you have read or fully understood, so I gave you a precautionary note. ANDREW: For the record, my unilateral declaration had little effect on my mood. I was in a good mood day on Friday, and had the day off work. This morning, whilst obviously running mentally over this issue, I started to realise that I could start by looking at any beliefs, rules, conditioning etc specifically around why ‘I’ have not had a PCE, why pure intent (as in the actual thing, palpable life force etc) wasn’t being experienced. VINEETO: Your specific query of what is in the way of a PCE to happen is an excellent idea and I wish you speedy success. As Richard says “‘I’ can have a vested interest in disremembering a PCE as it could
very well be the beginning of the end of ‘me’” It may also be a reaction to the fear of naiveté which you shared a couple of weeks ago –
In the meantime, …
JOSEF: This audacity he mentions seems like exactly what is needed to
feel good “come what may”. ANDREW: This was the spirit in which I wrote my overly “wordy” declaration. As I said, it really didn’t do much, except cause a sequence of events which had me reacting to the whole premise of Actualism. As in, if one can’t start without pure intent, and one’s own intent is “dangerous” then one can’t start at all. VINEETO: This is a typical reaction of ‘me’ rebelliously wanting to stop the whole enterprise before it even started. Here is an insight you shared only a month ago –
It also smacks of resentment and defeatism (it’s too difficult) as well as making it someone else’s fault. As “audacity” when misunderstood can also mean “impulsiveness, recklessness, fearlessness, imprudence and insolence” (Oxford Languages), it is well worth sorting out the weeds from the flowers. In other words, if you want to replace ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ with sensible and silly you first need to know what is sensible. ANDREW: My mind was made up this morning, to basically go ahead anyway, warning or not, as I wasn’t talking about licentiousness or “doing whatever I want”, but specifically that all social rule etc, which dictate that I should feel bad now, or should feel “good feelings” now, no longer are ones I will blindly follow. Following that decision, I realised that I could be very specific and look at the beliefs around “pure intent” as described on the AFT. There does seem to be a background of conditioning (perhaps) that specifically prevents me experiencing that. VINEETO: I am pleased you are sensibly contemplating how best to proceed. I am fascinated to hear what you find out about your beliefs and feelings regarding pure intent. Also be careful to avoid the trap created by ‘me’ to turn actualism into a set of unliveable/ punishing rules designed to keep you in the cage you are intent to leave. ANDREW: It was surprised that I had decided that, minutes before I
opened the Forum and saw the discussion here. Yes, my reply to you stirred up a fruitful discussion about pure intent. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: In other news, I now write my journals (again) in reverse. Like Leonardo da Vinci.
It cleans up my handwriting and paces my thoughts. For context, since first learnt to write, I was able to write
mirror image. Being left handed, it was natural to reverse what I was seeing the teacher do. Apparently, it took a
while to convince me that I should write like everyone else. It really made no sense to me at 6 years old why I
should do everything backwards because everyone else said so! VINEETO: Hi Andrew, I am starting to understand how early your rebellion really started and how it has been your life-long occupation … and perhaps still is. I am pleased you are writing on the forum in the way everyone can read it, though. Soon you may fully understand that, and how, pursuing an actual freedom from the human condition, where 8+ billion live, is the most beneficial and enjoyable way of being a true rebel. To rebel successfully against life being called a ‘vale of tears’ and demonstrating by successful escape that it is not so, is the most wonderful rebellious adventure anyone can undertake. ‘Vineeto’ always called it the best game in town. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: The objection I had for years about this description was this; how can something “stream” from something that is “stillness”? Something still, by definition, is not streaming. It just occurred to me why this objection is wrong. Human Consciousness is finite. The infinitude is, infinite! And perception of the actual by a finite consciousness (the only type there is) will be
experienced as streaming, CLAUDIU: This is a really silly objection to have for years! (…)
It is resolved simply: just experience it for yourself what is being discussed! And then you can come up with a
better way to describe it with your own words. CLAUDIU: It is silly to harbor this objection for years and not
just go ahead and gain the experiential knowledge instead, to resolve it. Richard’s description of
pure intent is apt. However it seems expounding on it has had the result for you to go backwards towards defensive
intellectualization. But the intent was rather to encourage you to naively just go and see for yourself! ANDREW: I don’t see how you are adding anything useful to the discussion, by adding your “that’s silly”? How do you see it adding anything useful? Do you imagine that I otherwise didn’t see that it was silly not to have just asked Richard what he meant? What exactly is the point you are trying to make here? Considering that Vineeto has already provided lots of links to descriptions of pure intent, and that I am working through them, I hardly see what it is you are trying to say with “that’s silly”. Sure, it’s silly. Well spotted. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Can you now see what result your “wordy” categorical permission to yourself has
produced? You gave yourself permission to lash out in irritation/ annoyance/ anger (including psychic currents) at anyone who is touching your ‘fragile ego’, to use a common expression. It confirmed that my dire warning “wrong way, turn back” was indeed necessary. And because you did not stop to deal with the emotion that was happening at the time, you could not recognize that Claudiu made very helpful comments and suggestions, including that it is silly to postpone experiencing pure intent by only intellectualising about it. Quite obviously he had to point that out because you did not see this for yourself “for years”. Instead, this would have been an alternative reaction for you to have – CLAUDIU: When I see that something I have been doing is silly, it is wonderful, wondrous and rejoicing news. Because my life just got better, in that moment, by seeing I no longer have to do that silly thing. I often react with laughter and amazement at the silliness. Could I/should I have seen it sooner? Well if I could have I would have. It doesn’t really matter, now – I can’t change the past. But now life will be better going forward. IOW although feeling hurt or resentful or foolish is a natural reaction, it also is, eh… not
sensible, lol. It doesn’t benefit anybody and definitely not yourself either (it just prevents you from acting to
improve your life). But it’s up to you. VINEETO: However, still emotional, your reply was a confirmation that you reject helpful input unless it complies with your ‘self’-preserving criteria – ANDREW: I can let you know now, ahead of time, that it is redundant to call the fact I haven’t dealt with objections before now as silly. You can continue to post in response to each of them, if that suits you. If pointing out silliness is what is helping you, feel free. It doesn’t add anything useful to me, even reading it in bold; “just experience pure intent for yourself” That is the entire goal I am working towards. If your or Richard’s and anyone’s imperative command worked, it would have worked by now. In other words, if just do it advice works for you, that’s great, It’s not
been effective for me. VINEETO: I might as well stop giving any further suggestions to you – because actualism is experiential and not conceptual, and any intellectual or rational answers are only pointing to the possibility to experience it for yourself. Now, with your caveat, how will one know which advice/ suggestion you will gracefully accept and which one is perceived as an insult and responded to as such? Hence my previous message that you need to have a sincere intent to be happy and harmless in place before breaking down any “directives, missives, constitutions, allotments, franchises, contracts, agreements, treaties, implied or otherwise.” That said, there is/was a perfect opportunity to put the actualism method into practice – when you wrote your messages last night, your feeling good had waned and had given way to a strong negative feeling. Here is Richard’s description (as demonstration which everyone can use likewise), to, in short, neither suppress nor express the prevalent feeling but to sit with this feeling, whilst being aware that you are this feeling –
If you don’t want to do it in this way now you can keep the recipe for the next time. Alternatively, you can allow yourself to acknowledge and recognize that you are this feeling which you experience at this moment until it becomes apparent how silly it is to waste this precious moment of being alive, as now is the only moment you can actually experience (there is the word ‘experience’ again) and you will be surprised what happens – you can easily swing back to feeling good because when experience that you are your feeling you have the choice to be a different feeling. If you dare doing this – and it is a daring because it will change ‘you’ (and might even
eliminate “one of ‘my’ most cherished attributes”, the “subversive” trait Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: (This doesn’t have its own glossary entry? This quote was copied from This Moment of Being Alive, from the link on the first page) VINEETO: Hi Andrew, The entries are under “Intent” ANDREW: The objection I had for years about this description was this; how can something “stream” from something that is “stillness”? Something still, by definition, is not streaming. It just occurred to me why this objection is wrong. Human Consciousness is finite. The infinitude is, infinite! This “objection” you had “for years” only demonstrates that you remained all these years locked in the conceptual realm of reading the AFT. The stillness is because time does not move – time is the area in which events happen. It is
also because space does not move – again it is the arena in which objects move. Both Claudiu It requires the experience of the infinitude of space and time to perceive its utter and vast stillness. This stillness will become instantly obvious when your chattering mind stops and your swirling passions halt and ‘you’ go temporarily in abeyance.
ANDREW: And perception of the actual by a finite consciousness (the only type there is) will be experienced as streaming, VINEETO: Now what is your definition of “a finite consciousness”? In actualism terminology, the word consciousness refers to a flesh-and-blood body being conscious (the suffix ‘-ness’ forms a noun expressing a state or condition), as in being sentient. When a flesh-and-blood body being conscious becomes aware of being conscious apperception
occurs. In other words, consciousness being conscious of being consciousness ... as distinct from the normal ‘self’-conscious
way of perception (‘I’ being aware of ‘me’ being conscious).
Infinitude is not compatible with logic, concepts or intellectualisation – just look at how mathematicians frantically invent more and more theoretical universes either static or expanding – mathematics cannot deal with infinitude. You need to allow experiencing it. Actualism is not a concept, it is experiential. ANDREW: The other thought, which I never acted on, is; this stillness is the very stuff I am made of. It’s not some distant star streaming pure intent, or a tree, or something outside of this body per se, the proximate location of pure intent as described IS the actual body ‘I’ inhabit. (…) So, back to the topic; pure intent is experienced as a “stream” originating in the
“vast and utter stillness” because consciousness is finite. VINEETO: You would have been correct in your last sentence if you had not added the “because”. Consciousness being finite only applies to the normal ‘self’-conscious way of perception (‘I’ being aware of ‘me’ being conscious). A consciousness free from ‘I’/ ‘me’ is capable of apperception which can experience infinitude. Pure intent – the palpable life-force, the stream of benevolence and benignity – is experienced because it exists in actuality. Pure intent is an actual existing stream (not merely experienced as such – apperception only
experiences what is actual), the benevolence and benignity being the values of infinitude. (see
Cheers Vineeto
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