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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Chrono on Discuss Actualism Forum
CHRONO: There’s an insistent emergence of sexual desire during the periods of angst that I mentioned above. It promises a fulfillment, perhaps an instinctual fulfillment. It could potentially blossom into love. It promises a dream and eternity. It’s presents like an antidote to my meaninglessness. It would definitely fall into the “instinctual urge, drive, impulse, or any other similarly blind appetitive craving/ longing/ desiring for an affective-psychic coupling or bonding form of consummation”. I will focus on being as sincere and naive as I can be. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, What stands out that you are looking for “an antidote to my meaninglessness”. You also mentioned the word “fulfilment” in your next paragraph. When I read your journal, starting in April 2022, there are many insightful realisations and
reports of brief PCEs, for instance “what particularly has been standing out has been how this pure intent
(to my never-ending surprise) is not contaminated by ‘me’ at all”. Now it’s a matter to actualise those realisations, else they just sit there, forgotten and unfulfilled. Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ knew after her first PCE that ‘she’ had found both ‘her’ meaning of life – it was to do whatever necessary to experience life as it had been during the PCE 24/7, 365 days a year, forever, and that is what ‘she’ dedicated ‘her’ life to. ‘She’ knew from the start that the PCE lived permanently is where ultimate fulfilment lies. It is something truly wonderful and enjoyable to dedicate oneself to with the whole of one’s being, to make peace-on-earth apparent.
How is that for a meaningful life-choice? To actualise your insights is a matter of applying yourself by starting to pay diligent
attention to how you feel in this moment of being alive in order to notice even the slightest diminishment in
enjoyment and appreciation, and do something about it as described in This Moment of Being Alive
(Richard, List B, No. 12a, 16 July 1998).
As you can see, going out-from-control is the (second-)last point in the process, not at the start. Life becomes more and more easy the more obstacles to feeling good, come what may, you recognize and affectively channel to felicitous/ innocuous feelings. * VINEETO: … The affective feelings of “pity, sympathy, empathy, compassion and so on” create a bond, whereas benevolence does not. (see Richard, Audio-Taped Dialogues, Compassion Perpetuates Sorrow CHRONO: The “compassion gained through forgiveness binds” dialogue is very very relatable. It’d be relatable to pretty much everyone I know. I just had my parents ask me why I wasn’t visiting them. And they are also almost always trying to guilt me into feeling bad about it. I’m not quite sure why I visit them when I don’t really want to. We do not have anything in common. As Richard suggested, I asked “what is my investment?”. The answer is pretty much that I will find “fulfillment”, but only with their permission. This is my ‘connection’ and loyalty to them. The fulfillment will be that I will be freed and accepted to be me as I am. But now I see why this can never happen. It’s an ideal and it cannot happen as long as I remain an identity. I can only relate to them as ‘son’ and them to me as ‘parent’. It’s not just that I want them to give me permission and accept me as I am but I also want them to be free in the same way. As I read this dialogue, I am realizing that what I really want is to meet others freely as fellow human beings with no ‘connection’. VINEETO: You say “the fulfillment will be (…) accepted to be me as I am”
– but do you like yourself? Or, as ‘Vineeto’ recognized – “I had expected or assumed someone was to love
my ‘grotty self’, when even I could not stand those parts of me!” As you can only change yourself, unilaterally, it’s up to you to naïvely shed the various roles and become a fellow human being and simultaneously recognize others as your fellow human beings. This will do away with a lot of the resentment for them for not being as you would like them to be. * VINEETO: Perhaps if I put it this way – to be able to be “acutely-empathic
caring” one is necessarily aware of and sensitive to (not closed off from) one’s own and other
people’s feelings. In the below quote Richard used the word “acutely” in a related context – (…) CHRONO: I am very much like how Richard describes experiencing himself here haha. I do feel others’ suffering acutely but due to not really knowing what to do with it, I’ve built a persona around pretending to be ‘tough’ like everyone else. What I was trying to get my head around was the fact that if one is to be experiencing ‘acutely-empathic caring’, then one is at that time feeling the suffering of others. I was wondering something like ‘how can one be feeling good if at that time you are also feeling the suffering of others (feeling bad)?’ A suffering which I cannot seem to look away from. I will read the correspondence with Martin you suggested to see how I can come across the third alternative consistently. VINEETO: It is no longer suffering when you can emotionally accept that which is intellectually unacceptable. * VINEETO: When this “acutely-empathic caring” is combined with the naïve/ pure intent to bring an end to all the suffering and mayhem within the human condition (which had certainly been the case for ‘Richard’ in the period he described in his above correspondence, then this deeply felt empathic caring results in action. CHRONO: Ah I was wondering what the “button” was. I’ve had this confusion with the term ‘doer’ and the following clarified it a lot:
VINEETO: The “button”, as you put it, is the unequivocal agreement/ acquiescence to ‘my’ demise. The final trigger may be differing for different people. CHRONO: So then for me the ‘doer-ship of actions’ is always the ‘doer’ (self-centric) unless something causes me to go out-from-control. VINEETO: Yes. This “something” is ‘you’, when you allow yourself “to go out-from-control” by following the range of naïveness from being sincere to becoming naïve and all the way through being naïveté itself until it becomes apparent that it is entirely safe and beneficial to allow the universe to live you. It is not an outer force or event (a “something”) that causes something. You are in charge of your destiny all the way by sensibly loosening the control (with pure intent) bit by bit. CHRONO: Another point of clarification is how this ‘doer’ and ‘beer’ is not the ‘ego’ and ‘soul’. VINEETO: In short – ‘ego’ and ‘soul’ are based on the perception of the old paradigms prescribing the ancient values of good and bad, right and wrong, where the opposite of egoic means selfless, and being ‘soul-less’ is considered unthinkable. In actualism, as Richard explained in the quote you provided above, “that self-centred/ self-centric ‘doer’ is the ‘doer’ of deeds; the ‘actor’ of acts; the ‘speaker’ of words; the ‘thinker’ of thoughts; the ‘feeler’ of feelings.” When the ‘doer’ is operating with sincere intent to channel all affective energy into the felicitous and innocuous feeling, it thus willingly is preparing the way to become redundant. Then the ‘naïve beer’ (only possible with pure intent fully active) can come to the fore and allow being what is happening, i.e. allowing the benevolence and benignity of the universe to live your life.
CHRONO: As I understand it then the only way I can allow this “benevolence and benignity of pure intent being dynamically operative” is by the way that you mention. And only a naive ‘me’ can allow this. VINEETO: Yes. CHRONO: Relatedly, would it be correct to say then that in an
actual freedom, the ‘doer-ship of actions’ is this benevolence and benignity of pure intent (which is not
self-centric)? VINEETO: You probably already found the relevant quote to answer your question in Martin’s correspondence –
There is no ‘doer’ or ‘beer’ in actuality. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: When I read your journal, starting in April 2022, there are many insightful realisations and
reports of brief PCEs, for instance “what particularly has been standing out has been how this pure intent
(to my never-ending surprise) is not contaminated by ‘me’ at all”. Now it’s a matter to actualise those realisations, else they just sit there, forgotten and unfulfilled. CHRONO: Thanks Vineeto for your reply and providing that reminder of those memories. I forgot I had those experiences and they can sometimes seem so far away. I’ve been feeling between neutral to good for the past week. Even during days of lack of sleep. The main obstacle is my own default state of being that I can only describe as an obsessive-compulsive neuroticism. Everything must be “right” before I’ll feel good. Even the actualism method I feel like I have to do it “right” or else I keep thinking it over and get stuck. It seems to be a function of the guardian or social identity. In this I am ultimately looking for a certainty. But I find now that I am able to ‘emotionally accept that which is intellectually unacceptable’ and with this I am able to put everything on a ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis. I don’t have to agree with everything that is happening in the world but I also don’t have to give in to the instinctual compulsion of suffering over it. I think it has been this emotional reservation which has impeded a moving forward in a more stable feeling good. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Now that you have precisely identified your “default state of being” and been “able to put everything on a ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis”, has your “default state of being” changed to being more continuously feeling good? And further, are you now perhaps able to access the memories from three years ago in a way – rememorate the flavour of these experiences – to establish the golden clew to pure intent? I am asking because this “I have to do it “right” or else …” is, or at least has been, the standard of ‘you’, the passionate entity within, whereas when you can establish/ re-establish, your connection to pure intent, the purity of the infinite and eternal universe outside of ‘you’ will be the benchmark to guide you. CHRONO: With that said, yesterday I realized that there actually is a certainty here. The certainty is in sensuousness. This quality keeps me here. It makes sense how attentiveness is a “sensuous attention”. I am usually instinctually trying to solve things in the murky areas of ‘being’ but I am here always existing reliably in a sensuous manner. This in itself invites feeling good. It stands in contrast to my default state of being. Now it’s a matter of how can I allow more of this to come to the fore more often. VINEETO: The attentiveness Richard describes in “Attentiveness, Sensuousness, Apperceptiveness” article is paying attention to both one’s psychological and psychic world and one’s senses. Viz:
Only in this way attentiveness will become “sensuous attention” –
The first habitual impulse is to dive into ‘solving’ “the murky areas of ‘being’” so it’s a matter of noticing and replacing this habitual impulse with the more felicitous habit for contemplative attention and “sensuous attention” whenever possible. This will aid you in up-levelling from feeling good to feeling felicitous. CHRONO: Something else which clicked as I was going about my day was the realization that the best that I can do for my partner is to always feel good. And in turn, this is the best that I can do for everyone. It’s like I am turning everything that I have been doing around truly 180 degrees in the opposite direction. I see the difference between intellectually unaccepting and emotionally unaccepting. I don’t agree with the Human Condition, but if I’m emotionally unaccepting of it then I have no choice but to try to solve it instinctually. It’s like there was some “rule” that one must be emotionally unaccepting and thus react in some compassionate and empathetic (suffering) manner. So my focus now has been to make feeling good the baseline. VINEETO: Yes, being “emotionally unaccepting” can also express itself as complaining and resenting and then react with whatever instinctual/ emotional feelings and behaviour kick in. Hence the suggestion to always first get back to feeling good before contemplating on what triggered the diminishment in feeling good. When you allow yourself to be more and more naïve, then the real fun can unfold. CHRONO: Also I am curious what you think of this, Vineeto :
I know the advice now is to return to feeling good before investigating
anything. Is the above advice recommended at any time? VINEETO: The reason Richard gave two different options is because when someone has a tendency to experience their mood in an intellectual/ abstract way, perhaps even a dissociated way, then they need to first viscerally feel the feeling which disrupted their feeling good in order to correctly identify the nature of the trigger rather than assessing it at arm’s length. Whereas when you are an emotional/ passional-type then identification of the feeling happens at the moment of it occurring, perhaps even in an overwhelming way, then getting back to feeling good as soon as possible is necessary to be able to look at what was the trigger in a more clear-headed manner. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: Now that you have precisely identified your “default state of being” and been “able to put everything on a ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis”, has your “default state of being” changed to being more continuously feeling good? CHRONO: Not entirely but I am able to feel good more often than before. Something I re-read a few days ago that helped immensely as well was tracing back to feeling good before the trigger which caused a diminishment in feeling good. That itself automatically restores feeling good and when look at the trigger after that, it amounts to almost nothing and easily seen as habitual. VINEETO: Hi Chrono This is an excellent discovery, I will add it to my repertoire when someone else might benefit from it. It also confirms to you that the trigger was really irrelevant in the grand scheme of your life and can simply be declined the next time it occurs. * VINEETO: The first habitual impulse is to dive into ‘solving’ “the murky areas of ‘being’” so it’s a matter of noticing and replacing this habitual impulse with the more felicitous habit for contemplative attention and “sensuous attention” whenever possible. This will aid you in up-levelling from feeling good to feeling felicitous. CHRONO: Yes I experience the sensuous attention as a simultaneous seeing of the psychological and psychic world and also the awareness of being here. My default state of being is such that I am excluding the senses part and thus going inward instead to ‘solve’ it. VINEETO: Yes, the default state of being is to pay almost exclusive attention to one’s feelings, and once you do that there is no room for appreciating the sensate experience. It takes a bit of diligence and tenacity to ween yourself off from believing what your feelings induce you to believe and instead look for the factual evidence (of the sensate experience) that everything is already perfect. * VINEETO: The reason Richard gave two different options is because when someone has a tendency to experience their mood in an intellectual/ abstract way, perhaps even a dissociated way, then they need to first viscerally feel the feeling which disrupted their feeling good in order to correctly identify the nature of the trigger rather than assessing it at arm’s length. Whereas when you are an emotional/ passional-type then identification of the feeling happens at the moment of it occurring, perhaps even in an overwhelming way, then getting back to feeling good as soon as possible is necessary to be able to look at what was the trigger in a more clear-headed manner. CHRONO: Ah that makes sense. I always thought of myself as the intellectual/ abstractional type but the more I look at my feelings, I am seeing that I am actually the second type. I experience it often times in an overwhelming way. So feeling good first makes sense. VINEETO: Ha, men are conditioned to be more of the intellectual/ abstractional type but underneath you discovered the emotions and passions operating. It’s great to find out more and more how you tick and put it to good use to enjoy life and appreciate being alive. * VINEETO: And further, are you now perhaps able to access the memories from three years ago in a way – rememorate the flavour of these experiences – to establish the golden clew to pure intent? CHRONO: I want to write this while it’s still fresh on my mind. I backtracked through the comments and tried to arrive at how I experienced it as before. The trigger or clue was in Claudiu’s description of pure intent and then reading my own description. I was able to experientially arrive at the same experience. This time the aspect that stood out the most was ‘my’ essential nature and why my default way of ‘being’ is the way it is. The word ‘quality’ triggered this seeing for some reason. ‘My’ essential quality is malice and sorrow. No matter how hard I try that is what I will be. But then there is this quality of the universe which I can only describe as perfection. It was so clear that is something that ‘I’ will never be or can’t be. ‘My’ default way of being is the way it is because ‘I’ am trying to get to this perfection in ‘my’ own way, but I can’t. This triggered a bit of alarm and I found I was getting overwhelmed but in a good way. I pulled back but I kept looking at this quality because it brings effortless enjoyment and appreciation. With this quality of perfection, that’s all I can do is enjoy and appreciate. What else needs to be done if there is perfection? Even further to that, I can confidently say in this experience I genuinely found that I am liking myself. It’s interesting that it’s this experience which has me feeling this way vs me trying to get there myself. VINEETO: This is wonderful to read. In effect your first discovery (“that is what I will be”) is ‘you’ at the core (including all the other instinctual passions) but there is an alternative. And in face of the evidence of the perfection of the universe and it’s qualities – benevolence and benignity – you can now like yourself, and like others and life becomes fun. Remember to establish the ‘golden clew’ connection while it is happening so you can always find your way to pure intent.
CHRONO: Maybe ‘I’ want some purpose in all this? VINEETO: ‘Your’ purpose is, of course, that ‘you’ have a job to do – to go into oblivion for the benefit of the flesh-and-blood Chrono and that body and every body. And that is wonderful. Cheers Vineeto
CHRONO: I have been able to much more easily and consistently feel good since my last post. There is this intertwining of closeness and sweetness. It’s always readily here and sometimes it’s like ‘I’ am close to this quality and “bathing” in its rays with varying degrees from feeling good to excellent. I have an increased confidence that I did not have before. Although I experience it as a choice that I have to consistently make. But what is more clear is that it is ‘I’ that is away from this. Everything that ‘I’ do takes me away from this. It’s so very clear that ‘I’ can never be here. ‘My’ very nature is that of being away from this moment. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, What an excellent report that you are able to see it so clearly – and from there to know exactly what to do. CHRONO: Now when I look at a feeling I try to see if I really want to feel that feeling. I ask myself if it feels good and the feeling may morph and shift into a different feeling to avoid facing it. ‘I’ am being seen each moment. The more I’ve done this, I see that every feeling other than feeling good sucks. And even further to that, I only genuinely like myself when I am feeling good. VINEETO: Ha, when you see – and know with certainty – “that every feeling other than feeling good sucks” then you know you have dedicated your life to being happy and harmless. And further to that you may well have opened the door to being naïve because this is what happens when you genuinely like yourself – and like your fellow human beings as a natural corollary –
CHRONO: Relatedly, I was wondering today what it means to actually care for someone. After reading thru some articles on the AFT website it’s clear that I have never actually cared ever before. VINEETO: I can relate very well to that realisation of yours as ‘Vineeto’ had a similar experience –
CHRONO: To put someone before oneself or to experience compassion for them is what it has meant in the ‘real world’ to care for another. But to actually care for someone else, it’s to actually free them from the burden of ‘me’. Thus to free this body of ‘me’ is the best that I can do for them. VINEETO: It is very helpful to rule out putting “someone before oneself or to experience compassion” so as not to fall into the trap of compassion or trying to be ‘selfless’, whereas a deep near-actual-caring, which is not self-centric, is what will facilitate the powerful instinct of altruism to overcome the powerful instinct of self-survival. Richard reports about ‘his’ experience during ‘his’ virtual freedom –
CHRONO: I can see now that to truly care even for myself that I
have to first genuinely like myself (and others). Let’s see how far this aim will go! VINEETO: Yes, when you genuinely like yourself and therefore care for yourself (this body), and by extension for that body and every body with all your ‘being’, “this aim” can carry you all the way. Cheers Vineeto PS: Unless you already found it, the selected correspondence on Near-actual Caring
CHRONO: I have been coasting along with some occasional pulling back. But I have not fallen back into feeling bad like before at all. I know that I simply have to feel good and that has been an easy thing. Attentiveness is optimally active. Any issue is always solved by returning to feeling good. I find that I am also able to sleep much better consistently and I no longer have any worries around it. This is a huge thing as I had a lot of issues with sleeping with anxiety and fears always getting in the way. This way back to feeling good, I don’t think that I can ever forget it anymore. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, With “attentiveness [being] optimally active” you have an excellent basis for your next adventure to unravelling the mysteries of sex, desire and intimacy. CHRONO: These past few weeks though, I have been trying to explore
sex and sexual desire. Trying to sort out the two. I’ve been wondering how I can be ‘closer’ during sex and what
role does sexual desire play, if any? I find that the energy of this desire overtakes and diverts the experience into a
fantasy realm. Peter’s writing
The feeling gives the impression that I would not be able to have sex at all without it. That I must always fuel it so that it can happen. But is it true? VINEETO: This “impression” may be believed to be true but it is not a fact. The many
questions Richard answered from his ongoing experience regarding delighting in sexual congress without any libido bear
witness to the incredulity of his correspondents that sexual enjoyment required the presence of libido CHRONO: This drive seems like it is lauded in being a ‘man’. Perhaps even central to being a ‘man’. So there’s some vested interest in maintaining it in some way. And what if I wasn’t a ‘man’ (or any such gender identity)? However, I do find over and over that it precludes intimacy. I read how sex is one of the easiest ‘gateway’ into the actual but I find it to be more difficult. Maybe there are some beliefs around it that are hindering the full experience. VINEETO: It seems you are ready to deliberate and explore the social conditioning of your gender identity of what you, and society, considers “being a ‘man’”. There are lots of beliefs and unspoken rules and all are unhelpful to both happiness/ harmlessness or delightful harmony and intimacy with a person of the other gender. It’s worth keeping in mind that what you see is a consequence of the tried and failed spiritual legacy of both Western and Eastern religions. Some information is collected in Basic to Full Freedom, #man-woman-identity Sexual intimacy is indeed “one of the easiest ‘gateway’ into the actual” but this of course refers to the naïve sensuousness and intimacy in sexual play. For instance –
The more you allow yourself to be naïve = guileless, artless, ingenuous, unsophisticated, open, aboveboard, direct, frank, straightforward, child-like, simple, the more you can allow sensuous intimacy without the clutter of the social identity of what a man should be, or a woman should be, for example. The sheer appreciation, amazement, marvel and wonder of the physical closeness experienced in sexual play is astonishing, to say the least. CHRONO: On a related note, I was speaking with my partner earlier about something and I
started thinking about relating and what it means to be ‘compassionate’ as she talked about some of her worries
from her day. I was suddenly struck out of nowhere with a huge immense fear about what I am doing by trying to becoming
free. I understood at the core what this end of ‘me’ is. It’s both the end of ‘me’ and ‘her’. The end of
all humanity. The end of everything. The fear for a moment almost was going to become panic. I paused and had to
backtrack and remember what feeling good is. I’ve been floundering a bit since and now have renewed vigour. It’s
time to apply some more sensuosity. VINEETO: It’s interesting to note that contemplating “what it means to be ‘compassionate’” has triggered this “huge immense fear about what I am doing by trying to becoming free”. Compassion is one of the stalwarts to keep you trapped within humanity, and contemplating to do without appeared a dangerous and therefore impossible direction to proceed.
And yet you know from your PCE(s) that there is a third alternative to practicing compassion or abandonment. But ultimately it does indeed mean “the end of ‘me’ and ‘her’. The end of all humanity” and this fact takes time to digest and get used to. I’m reminded of Geoffrey’s last line in his recent contribution –
Now with “renewed vigour” (renewed pure intent?) you can see your way forward. It bodes well for wondrous experiences in “some more sensuosity”. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: This “impression” may be believed to be true but it is not a fact. The many
questions Richard answered from his ongoing experience regarding delighting in sexual congress without any libido bear
witness to the incredulity of his correspondents that sexual enjoyment required the presence of libido CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, I can readily see that it gets in the way of intimacy, but I have been contemplating how can this
powerful drive be utilized. It’s been difficult to contemplate outside of the opposites in regards sexual desire.
Initially there’s even a small sense of shame in wanting to completely indulge in it. I found your post
VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Can you see that the post from Richard answers your question regarding “how can this powerful drive [of libido] be utilized”. It “is to be aware all the while (with that unique human ability to be conscious of being sentient) that your sexual partner likes being with you so much that they are willing to spend their most valuable asset – their time – not only being with you but having you inside them/ having them inside you (dependent upon gender) for this most physically intimate way of associating possible.” Being aware of being conscious almost automatically gives rise to appreciation and the wonder of it all happening – and this way the energy of “powerful [affective] drive” of libido is channelled into enjoyment and appreciation with marvellous results. CHRONO: It sounds weird to say, but it’s this appreciation of my partner in this way that I find to be a new direction. And he also uses the word ‘preciosity’, which exact word has come to my mind when I’ve experienced the sweetness of this moment before. The same preciosity that I want to experience again. Sexual desire on its own has a disregard about it that may be the reason why it needs to be kept in check. I’ll try all of this next time and see! I might need to work on my ability to ‘hover indefinitely on that orgastic plateau which precedes an orgasm’. I’m wondering if that ability would also be of any use even if one was by oneself. VINEETO: Well, in terms of the actualism method, which is enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive, it is not “weird” at all – in fact it is appreciation which exponentially multiplies one’s enjoyment and can catapult you into naïveté. Also the more you appreciate of your partner in this way increases the intimacy and appreciation thereof, and as Richard says, “be warned, the sky is not the limit.” To extend the time hovering on that orgastic plateau certainly needs practice but who would object to that. Lots to discover! * VINEETO: It seems you are ready to deliberate and explore the social conditioning of your gender identity of what you, and society, considers “being a ‘man’”. There are lots of beliefs and unspoken rules and all are unhelpful to both happiness/ harmlessness or delightful harmony and intimacy with a person of the other gender. It’s worth keeping in mind that what you see is a consequence of the tried and failed spiritual legacy of both Western and Eastern religions. Some information is collected in Basic to Full Freedom,
#man-woman-identity CHRONO: I am still reading over much of the correspondence so I will reflect on it as I finish. VINEETO: It’s certainly beneficial to reflect, but then any realisation needs to be actualised in order to bear fruit. It’s amazing what you can uncover with naiveté and pure intent and how your attitude and behaviour will change towards more benevolent, amiable and friendly action toward your fellow male and female human beings including yourself. * VINEETO: It’s interesting to note that contemplating “what it means to be ‘compassionate’” has triggered this “huge immense fear about what I am doing by trying to becoming free”. Compassion is one of the stalwarts to keep you trapped within humanity, and contemplating to do without appeared a dangerous and therefore impossible direction to proceed. CHRONO: Yes there was in the deepest part of the fear a complete and almost unbearable loneliness. Compassion perhaps keeps me connected to others and provides as an antidote for it in some way as well. Not that any of that will stop me haha. As you said, there may need to be a digestion period. VINEETO: That fear of “a complete and almost unbearable loneliness” is exactly the prison wall that is supposed to ensconce you within ‘humanity’s’ boundaries. When you stop fighting the fear, it will instantly diminish and then you can see if it has any substance in actuality. And yes, if it is a deep fear it might take some time to unravel and get to the thrilling aspect. I remember some strong fears ‘Vineeto’ had, for instance the atavistic one of being burnt at the stake –
Here is another example –
What ‘Vineeto’ forgot to mention that Richard’s interjection snapped ‘her’ out of the grip of fear instantly (because quite obviously intense fear cannot be maintained forever). It brought ‘Vineeto’ back down to earth. CHRONO: It’s very funny that this topic of everyone basically
being spiritual should come up. Just a few days ago I was talking with my partner after viewing an incredible
image of distant galaxies VINEETO: Ha, I read some of the comments and naturally everyone on that forum attempted to integrate the new information as quickly as possible into their existing paradigm! CHRONO: Just to add to the above, it is that impression of
being present and existing over time as an ‘entity’ which is the source of ‘my’ belief in immortality. Belief
doesn’t seem quite right here as ‘I’ don’t actually believe that ‘I’ will persist after this body dies,
it’s more like a fundamental impression.
VINEETO: Well said. It’s not a belief which can be excised, it’s part and parcel of being an ‘entity’ … until, as it was for ‘Vineeto’ for instance, enough of actuality had irrefutably penetrated via apperceptive insights for ‘her’ to know, and accept, that ‘self’-immolation was the only and viable solution to the mess of the human condition.
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: I can see that in my
life I invested into becoming a ‘someone in relation to others’, this is ‘my’ apparent individuality. So
initially when allowing intimacy it seems as if I am giving up my very individuality, yet when I look at just what
this ‘individuality’ consists of, it is based in separation. CHRONO: I can very much relate to this. In fact, recently when I tried to allow the unfolding of intimacy that Richard described, there was an immediate block. The block first took the form of (yet again) resentment. But this time the resentment was that I had to be a someone in relation to my partner at all. I am angry that I have to be a man in order to relate with her as a woman. The feeling is that ‘I’ am bound to be this way. When I ask myself what if I wasn’t a man, then I feel the anger rise up a little more. It feels like then I cannot be intimate at all, because my partner is expressing herself through her conditioning as a woman. If I don’t meet her this way, then I am being callous (such is the feeling). So the way that I experience it right now isn’t that I would lose power and authority, but rather that I will be alone. Which aloneness seems to be the condition deep within. But I have on occasion also experienced the fear of this loss of power/ authority. If I were not to maintain this identity (man), then I would become inept, impotent, and be a pushover. Notwithstanding all of this, what I really want is to be genuine, open, and straightforward. Perhaps there is a dare here. That despite what those feelings are, I proceed with my intent to be naive. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, It’s fascinating how you describe the emotional process – first a block, then resentment,
then anger to have to be a man, then angry about being trapped, then a sort of resignation, then fear of being alone
(=loneliness). It is well observed and described but it leads nowhere until you contemplate what you “really
want” – to be “genuine, open, and straightforward”. I remember feeling being ‘Vineeto’
having this meme running in the background – Illegitimi non carborandum CHRONO: Of course underneath the cognitive acrobatics of being a man is the power source itself (the libido). One of the characteristics that sticks out about this is the disregard of the other. A complete opposite of appreciation. It’s expression is a fuelling of fantasy and illusion. It promises an instinctual fulfillment that will never come. It can be readily discernible as the epitome of ‘Blind Nature’. This about sums it up:
I’ve been wondering if libido itself is perhaps possessing the ‘arousal’ that this physical body is capable of and thus giving the impression that one would not be able to have sex without its drive. VINEETO: You classified blind nature’s libido well – “a complete opposite of appreciation”. It confirms what I wrote to Kuba yesterday –
You can experiment yourself experientially when you, with awareness, start backing off the
instinctual urge of libido and replace it with a preference to sexual intimacy, thereby diminishing the
self-centredness of the libidinous impulse with a more self-less inclination for closeness and sensuousness. Then you
might get to a point where “sex takes care of itself and full attention can be paid to intimacy”. CHRONO: Just yesterday I had an inkling that despite what this conditioning may say or what the libido drives one towards, that my partner also desires the same intimacy that I am also desiring. She recalls being able to be at ease as a child and expressing fun in an uninhibited way that she is no longer able to do. Which ease she wants to be able to express with me. And I became aware of the gulf created between us with the conditioning of man and woman. So if she also desires this, then what really do I have to be afraid of? Despite that though, I am seeing once again the unilateral nature of this endeavour. Again there is a daring aspect. And that is exciting! VINEETO: What a wonderful opportunity that your partner “also desires the same intimacy”. ‘Vineeto’ experienced the same desire, ‘she’ just didn’t know how to bring it about until ‘she’ discovered naiveté. And Richard reports that women in general are more interested in intimacy than men –
You are correct “seeing once again the unilateral nature of this endeavour” and yet there is opportunity of exploring it together as well. Either way, a more and more self-less and less self-centric way of being sensuous is not to be missed –
Richard described his own experience this way –
He described the caress of absolute perfection further on in the same tooltip –
* VINEETO to Kuba: Whereas you could nourish and foster a naïve excitement of a beneficial
discovery operating – think of how young children are eager to learn about the world they find themselves in (until
their enthusiasm gets more and more stifled and oppressed. This is the kind of naiveté albeit with adult
sensibilities which is the next exploration, and don’t be discouraged when you feel a bit shy or foolish – it’s
part of the package … CHRONO: Ha this is very funny as I was talking with my
partner about exactly this yesterday. Time to put my money where my mouth is. VINEETO: I wish you exquisite enjoyment and success in your new exciting adventure. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO to Kuba: Via actualistic awareness and attentiveness you can choose, each moment,
between pursuing the high, or enjoying and appreciating the sexual intimacy with the fellow human being you are
closest to. CHRONO: With all of that said, there are still some feelings of fear standing in the way of it at the moment. I find that this fear again goes with being a ‘man’. It has to do with how men are lauded for their ‘sexual prowess’ and I often feel that I must ‘perform’ to impress. The further fear of it is that my partner will leave me if I don’t follow this belief. I experience this as another dare. If my partner were to leave me because of this, then that is what it is. Although I do find these feelings rather amusing too since she expressed on a number of occasions of how she enjoys the physical proximity and closeness of sex the most. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, What you really mean by “being a ‘man’” is what you consider the role of a man, the social identity aspects that you swallowed hook, line and sinker (like everyone else). And it is well worth looking at these expectations/ obligations enshrined in the human condition what put so much pressure on you. While you are doing that you can also pop your head around the corner, so to speak, and recognize that in actuality you are already a man, a male human being, and in actuality this is already perfect. So when ‘I’, the identity, comes back in with all ‘my’ demands how ‘I’ should be, there is a salubrious actual perspective which allows you to look at those ‘problems’ in more naïve way and makes it all much less serious. CHRONO: It has been a number of years now since reading Article 2 of Richard’s Journal and I am able to appreciate and glean more meaning and insight from it. Some writings that stood out were:
VINEETO: Indeed … you may even discover that behind the idea of a “being a man” needing “‘sexual prowess’” is hidden a yearning for intimacy. After all, a near-actual intimacy is something so new, it has to be lived to be discovered.
CHRONO: On a separate but related issue, I noticed at work this past week more clearly how I ‘hold back’ in my interactions with others. Just as in a similar manner as with my partner (with whom it still operates but on a level of lower intensity), I ‘hold back’ from them. I take a step back and basically scan out what’s the ‘right way’ to be with them. This scan of course is composed of anxiety/ fear and exemplifies the societal conscience. I’m always on alert of what they are thinking of me and if ‘I’ am playing ‘my’ role properly. Seeing this, I then also allowed myself on the same day to meet them right where they are and I am always delighted at how easy interactions are. People enjoy associating with me when I am enjoying my own association. When this happens, there’s a background feeling of ‘this can’t be’ or ‘something will go wrong’. But I find that even when people may become upset, my remaining in this delighting has a rather conciliatory effect. This time the background feeling is that ‘I will be physically harmed and so I must take a step back again’. It’s a rather strange conditioning but feels very real. VINEETO: This naïve approach is well worth keeping in mind. It helps you to overcome the initial apprehension of “holding back”, feeling foolish or ignorant or whatever, because you already know it has a beneficial outcome for all concerned. Did you notice that when you have overcome the fear of being psychologically harmed you stepped up the danger to being “physically harmed”, just to keep yourself in line? CHRONO: On another separate day, I was reading something Richard writes in regards infinitude where he says that ‘I’ create a center in consciousness and block the experience of infinitude. I started thinking ‘what really is this infinitude?’. ‘It’s a physical infinitude’. ‘Oh it’s this infinite space and eternal time’. Then this thought occurred to me that perhaps that this physical universe is all that there is. There’s nothing other than this physical universe that actually exists. The experience of being ‘me’ is an experience of an ‘otherness’ which is blocking this immensity (which I experience as there on the periphery). I understood for a moment this:
VINEETO: This is marvellous. What happened in that moment was apperception –
All the best. Cheers Vineeto
CHRONO: I can relate to a lot of what you write. Especially the :
In my experience it has been that some part of me truly believed in those problems/ ideals/ dreams and persisting in feeling them. But also it’s because I am trying to ‘fix’ it while also experiencing those feelings. As an example, I would very often go into states of ‘limerence’ (a hellish state of being). During all of that time I thought that I could not apply the actualism method because of how acutely I felt the suffering, so I would have no choice but to apply real world methods. I went to counsellors and therapists and it did help but only in a ‘keeping my head above water’ kind of way. In the most intense periods of that state there would be the deep desire to end it and there was the desire to do whatever it takes, but I wasn’t sure how. Simply put, it can’t be done from there because ‘I am my feelings and my feelings are me’. It was only when I acknowledged that I had a subsequent realization that all I had to do was enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive. Right in there is the desire to be happy and harmless. I really did want to be happy and harmless. There’s no other path for me. When I realized that, I was able to enjoy life more consistently and felt more like I had autonomy. Something nothing in the real world has been able to offer. Everything in the real world is about ‘keeping my head above water’. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, It is a valuable insight that “everything in the real world is about ‘keeping
my head above water’”, in line with what Sigmund Freud classified as the aim of psychiatry: to return
patients “back to a state of as near-normal functioning as possible (and ‘normal’ is
categorised by Mr. Sigmund Freud as ‘common human unhappiness’)” However, when you say that “I thought that I could not apply the actualism method because of how acutely I felt the suffering” you seem to have forgotten, or overlooked, a vital ingredient of the actualist tools when applying the actualism method – when your mood falls below feeling good, first get back to feeling good. That, of course, includes recognizing and acknowledging the feeling which is happening (which can sometimes be made difficult by not wanting to recognize it because this might interfere with one’s self-image, or fighting the feeling, which automatically imbues it with a lot more affective energy). Hence when you realize what feeling is happening, acknowledge it as being part of your genetic inheritance, and stop fighting it. From there it is much easier to get back to neutral and then to feeling good. Only then does it make sense to find out what triggered the feeling and draw the necessary conclusion from the event. And once you fully take on board that “I am my feelings and my feelings are me” you have the choice of being a different feeling because it is simply silly, when you have the choice, to be something other than happy and harmless. You might also discover that there is a certain amount of investment in keeping the
suffering going (because of some good feeling you cherish, for instance) – elsewhere referred to the addiction of being a ‘being’ CHRONO: All of that to say, it’s actually pretty simple. Just as Vineeto has suggested:
You do not need to wait “clearing the cobwebs out of
some ‘dark corners’ of myself”. Such an activity (in my experience anyway) becomes an exercise in keeping ‘my’
problems alive. You know what it is to feel good. You know what it is like to experience pure intent. Maybe go back
through your journal and read through the experience and rememorate it again. Any problems are easily solved when you
are feeling good. VINEETO: You are certainly right when feeling good, feeling better and feeling naïve any problems are more easily solved, or don’t even appear as such, but simply accepted as challenges in the game of becoming actually free. Cheers Vineeto
CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, VINEETO: What you really mean by “being a ‘man’” is what you consider the role of a man, the social identity aspects that you swallowed hook, line and sinker (like everyone else). And it is well worth looking at these expectations/ obligations enshrined in the human condition what put so much pressure on you. CHRONO: Yes I have seen these expectations/ obligations featured in many aspects of my life. In relation to male friends (primarily), it could be that I must maintain some outward appearance of confidence, being nonplussed, being “skilled”, being of high status, etc. With my partner, it feels like that I must be a place of safety and comfort for her (backed by the feeling of responsibility and seriousness) and that if I don’t then I have failed or am a failure. At work, it feels like I must always be excelling and must always know the answer. It could all come under some guise of being an ‘authority’. If I had to go a little further, I could say that all of that is about projecting power. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Well said. Having recognized this you can now decline “projecting power” and experiment with allowing the naiveté which you talked about in your last message –
VINEETO: While you are doing that you can also pop your head around the corner, so to speak, and recognize that in actuality you are already a man, a male human being, and in actuality this is already perfect. So when ‘I’, the identity, comes back in with all ‘my’ demands how ‘I’ should be, there is a salubrious actual perspective which allows you to look at those ‘problems’ in more naïve way and makes it all much less serious. CHRONO: When I think on this, I can understand it intellectually. But in society it doesn’t seem enough. I think it’s about showing ‘my’ usefulness to society. Otherwise I could be discarded. Which means being ostracized, lonely, punished in some way. Everything that I am being perhaps in this entire journal is being kept in place by this fear of retribution from society and humanity. Perhaps another dare. VINEETO: The dare is to become autonomous, less and less dependant on other people’s opinions and
demands. It happens when you gradually find out that there is something better than having the fickle approval and
praise from your contemporaries. There is an actual world right here, right now, and right under your nose. You may
enjoy this story from Richard. * VINEETO: Indeed … you may even discover that behind the idea of a “being a man” needing “‘sexual prowess’” is hidden a yearning for intimacy. After all, a near-actual intimacy is something so new, it has to be lived to be discovered. CHRONO: Yes, this hidden yearning is what I’m currently trying to locate. Which perhaps may only come about if I abandon the sexual drive as well. I am wondering if that drive has any role to play at all in any of this. I sometimes struggle to see how it could not arise at all unless one is already actually free. VINEETO: Not so fast. You cannot abandon the sexual drive – it is an instinctual passion. It will only completely disappear when the whole identity becomes extinct. Any attempt to abandon the sexual drive will necessarily lead to suppression and repression. This is the old way which both Western and Eastern religions promoted for thousands of years, and if you only know a little bit of history you already know where it leads to. What you can do is sincerely examine each of the various aspects of your acquired identity as a man, and if it interferes with being happy and harmless aim for as much naiveté as you dare, which already had such fortuitous outcome. Here is a short excerpt from feeling being ‘Peter’ regarding male identity –
This correspondence may be useful as well –
As you might see, loyalty plays a big part in keeping the social identity in place. * CHRONO: This scan of course is composed of anxiety/ fear and exemplifies the
societal conscience. I’m always on alert of what they are thinking of me and if ‘I’ am playing ‘my’ role
properly. Seeing this, I then also allowed myself on the same day to meet them right where they are and I am always
delighted at how easy interactions are. People enjoy associating with me when I am enjoying my own association. When
this happens, there’s a background feeling of ‘this can’t be’ or ‘something will go wrong’. But I find
that even when people may become upset, my remaining in this delighting has a rather conciliatory effect. This time
the background feeling is that ‘I will be physically harmed and so I must take a step back again’. It’s a
rather strange conditioning but feels very real. VINEETO: This naïve approach is well worth keeping in mind. It helps you to overcome the initial apprehension of “holding back”, feeling foolish or ignorant or whatever, because you already know it has a beneficial outcome for all concerned. Did you notice that when you have overcome the fear of being psychologically harmed you stepped up the danger to being “physically harmed”, just to keep yourself in line? CHRONO: Thanks I actually did not notice that haha. Now that I am looking back at it, that seems to happen any time I get ‘close’. Some sort of fear of retribution, but proceed anyway. VINEETO: That’s how the instinctual passions work – any time you get ‘close’, i.e. more intimate to another fellow human being, there is an apprehension of what might happen, that you might lose yourself. And yet when you pay attention, there is no actual danger, not even real danger. So you can increase the daring just a little bit, and then a little bit more, and be more confident in discovering and enjoying being naïve. It is such fun. * CHRONO: As an aside, I have been wondering why it is said that actual freedom has no conditions to happen and that the actualism method is something that you do in the meanwhile. Yet at other times, I gain the impression that there technically are conditions for it to happen. VINEETO: There are no condition from the actual world, as the PCE confirms when it happens. It is ‘I’ and ‘me’ who create the boundaries and set the rules under which conditions ‘I’ will agree to ‘my’ demise, and ‘I’ will place plenty of (genetically endowed) passionate and cunning objections to obstruct such voluntary agreement. Hence pure intent is paramount. * CHRONO: The following is from Henry’s Journal but I did not want to divert it into a different topic: VINEETO: (…) And once you fully take on board that “I am my feelings and
my feelings are me” you have the choice of being a different feeling because it is
simply silly, when you have the choice, to be something other than happy and harmless. CHRONO: Yes it was only after I saw that I had to return to feeling good first that any sort of beneficial changes were noticed and maintained. VINEETO: This is a valuable experience and a good to keep in. CHRONO: Though overall there is still the addiction to being ‘me’. I have been re-reading the linked correspondence on addiction and some parts stood out to me (also appreciated James’ questions and pondering):
If I compared to my experience with suffering (deep feelings of complete desolation) as described above in experiences of limerence (where I feel anything very deeply), in the midst of the most intense suffering is where I also felt the most “alive”. Within it, there’s a simultaneous desire to end the suffering (because it is intense anguish) but also addicted to being it. This suffering also had a ‘good’ side where I felt fulfilled, but only if certain conditions were met. I’d go in circles no matter how much I noted it did not make sense. Deep down I felt this suffering as my soul itself and sometimes a ‘dream’ would present itself as being the only way out. This was the dream of ‘love’. Which dream is gone now. But I would naturally go back to this place of intense suffering if no attentiveness or anything was applied. I can see that as ‘my’ path. VINEETO: You have identified the nub of the old paradigm which applies both to the spiritual as well as the materialistic aspect – your ‘being’ searching for the fulfilment that only an actual freedom can provide. Instead, for millennia people have been settling for second best – either spiritual enlightenment or material fulfilment, as in addictions to ‘highs’, ranging from drugs, success, group-highs, winning competitions, admiration or similar ‘self’-enhancing activities. It is an excellent realisation to have identified this as “‘my’ path”, in contrast to the wide and wondrous path. It is a dead-end road unless you want to settle for second best. This “limerence” only reifies the ‘self’ and the ‘self’s’ yearning
for grandeur in the dream of the ‘good’ side – ‘self’-aggrandisement. The sooner you recognize, and
consequently decline, the nature of the “dream” the sooner the attraction to the “most
intense suffering” will also abate. Perhaps a thorough investigation of what is left of “the dream
of ‘love’” might be useful –
CHRONO: But I do have this desire within to also end the suffering, which I equate with:
My natural instinct then was to end it while being it, but I would go in circles. Maybe I wasn’t doing this:
VINEETO: My suggestion is that as long as the ‘good’ side of your suffering is still active as a promise and therefore desire, you will continue to go round in circles. ‘Vineeto’ knows from personal experience that the (at first often hidden) ‘good’ feelings such as desire, love and compassion kept the bad feelings in place. Here Richards reports from his own experience of dismantling enlightenment –
CHRONO: Also I am curious why Richard suggests in this correspondence not to return to
feeling good first but to proceed with the contemplation despite James saying he experiences fear and the suchlike.
In what context is this happening? VINEETO: The conversation was less of a contemplation but rather an affective exploration into the nature of fear and the addiction of suffering and being ‘me’ and it revealed the feeling James had regarding the ending of ‘me’. Viz.:
When an intense feeling such as the fear of extinction is encountered for the first time, it sometimes requires an affective exploration to identify what it is really about before one can see the silliness of this existential fear and be able to return to feeling good for further contemplation. Besides, this example of the affective exploration into stuckness, fear and the addiction of being ‘me’ could result in the courage to proceed for James or other readers via garnering sufficient pure intent. Similarly, your own affective experiences of “limerence” revealed that you are “addicted to being it”, that there was “a ‘good’ side where I felt fulfilled …” and “the dream of ‘love’”. However, there is no point in going into these limerences once you know what they are about or into the feelings of the fear of ending ‘me’ again and again unless ‘I’ am prepared, via discovering and dissolving the last bastions of ‘me’ objecting to ‘my’ demise, especially when you already found out that you “would go in circles”. Cheers Vineeto
CHRONO: Now I have a string of days off to enjoy, reflect, and
compose. I think I also operate to a similar extent in the “steeple chasing” and taking “excursions” mentioned in the
replies prior CHRONO: Yes I have seen these expectations/ obligations featured in many aspects of my life. In relation to male friends (primarily), it could be that I must maintain some outward appearance of confidence, being nonplussed, being “skilled”, being of high status, etc. (…) If I had to go a little further, I could say that all of that is about projecting power. VINEETO: Well said. Having recognized this you can now decline “projecting power” and experiment with allowing the naiveté which you talked about in your last message (quoted further below) – CHRONO: Yes I am reaching the “exhaustion” point of all options and seeing that perhaps naiveté is the only way to proceed. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Thank you for your extensive reflections. The way you phrased the last sentence it looks as if naiveté, though being the least attractive option for ‘me’, is nevertheless the only way to achieve a more continuous feeling good? * VINEETO: The dare is to become autonomous, less and less dependant on other people’s
opinions and demands. It happens when you gradually find out that there is something better than having the fickle
approval and praise from your contemporaries. There is an actual world right here, right now, and right under your nose. You may enjoy this
story from Richard.
CHRONO: I can see in this dare how important it is to have a genuine intent to be happy and harmless. As one of the main fears that pops up is how I will be uncaring and callous if I were to be less and less dependent on other people’s opinions and demands. I know that I’ve mentioned this quite a few times in this journal so it’s definitely something central to ‘me’. The callousness may very well be the case if I did not have that intent. Caring in the real world is synonymous with being ‘Good’ and all the ‘good’ feelings. I enjoyed reading Richard’s wonder-land-tale and it’s a wonderful reminder of how society’s standards can never meet or match the perfection of the actual world. VINEETO: Yes, there is a tangible dare “to have a genuine intent to be happy and harmless”. Hence unless you genuinely enjoy being happy and harmless for its own sake you won’t care to dare leaving the ties behind that so (comfortably and uncomfortably) bind you. When pure intent is active, there are no worries of being “callous” or “uncaring”. * CHRONO: Yes, this hidden yearning is what I’m currently trying to locate. Which perhaps may only come about if I abandon the sexual drive as well. I am wondering if that drive has any role to play at all in any of this. I sometimes struggle to see how it could not arise at all unless one is already actually free. VINEETO: Not so fast. You cannot abandon the sexual drive – it is an instinctual passion. It will only completely disappear when the whole identity becomes extinct. Any attempt to abandon the sexual drive will necessarily lead to suppression and repression. This is the old way which both Western and Eastern religions promoted for thousands of years, and if you only know a little bit of history you already know where it leads to. What you can do is sincerely examine each of the various aspects of your acquired identity as a man, and whenever it interferes with being happy and harmless aim for as much naiveté as you dare, which already had such fortuitous outcome.
CHRONO: I think in these past days I have realized that one of the reasons I am having some trouble with it is because I also have a feeling of guilt and shame at feeling this sexual drive in the first place. It seems locked in place because there are some simultaneously conflicting beliefs that go with it as well and creating cognitive dissonance. The first is the one that I have already mentioned about needing it and indulging in it to some extent for the male “sexual prowess”. But also there’s a feeling of guilt at having it because then you are disregarding your partner. I noted above how this drive is the opposite of appreciation and it is conflicting because society both feels that it is a “need” while also saying that it is ‘Bad’. VINEETO: I talked to Andrew about guilt recently As for the second aspect of the “feeling of guilt” because “you are disregarding your partner” – when you deliberate shift your focus of interest from personal sexual satisfaction only to intimacy, the whole nature of sexual congress will change in the direction of including your partner, as a fellow play-mate, in the direct (bodily) intimacy of sexual congress.
CHRONO: I remember this quote from Richard standing out and highlighting this confusion:
VINEETO: Of course it is confusing because you snipped the beginning and end of the quote (added in curly brackets here). Richard is talking about rules made by pacifists and religious moralists to restrain instinctual behaviour instead of aiming to eliminate the very source of the offending behaviour – the instinctual passions. Here Richard points out that the Bible-quote at least considers the instinctual feelings as well as the instinctually-driven behaviour as something reprehensible (but offering nothing but repression for remedy). CHRONO: But further to that, probably the main reason for this is that I have never had ‘magical sex’. I’ll admit that that’s probably because all of these beliefs are standing in the way. Thus it ends up not being playful, appreciative, and fun, but instead an act that must be performed “properly”. The physical delight gets stunted to some degree. I wasn’t aware of all of this before though. Just that my experience stood in stark contrast to anything in the gradations of intimacy. Consequently, the rest follows what Peter writes about blaming the other. Blaming them for not allowing me the proper “space” for this intimacy that I desire to eventuate (it’s funny that I am realizing that that is actually what I am looking for as I am writing this). VINEETO: Well, of course if you start with the top-most grade, so to speak, and want ‘magical
sex’ right away without exploring and getting accustomed to the preceding stages of Grace’s gradation scale
Which means it is never talked about and hence entirely new to human history. It’s time someone puts it into practice and brings delicious intimacy into “the ken of humankind”. The more you allow yourself to be naïve the easier you have access to the near-innocent intimacy of naïveté. * VINEETO: This correspondence may be useful as well – <snipped> CHRONO: I can see what Peter writes here about the demands of the social identity. I can feel the separation from others and experienced it in an epitomized way when I was going in to work last week. As I was walking from the parking lot into the building, I saw that all the people’s walking about were a ‘they’ and a ‘them’. And ‘I’ was a ‘me’. It was like the social identity program had just booted up and I saw the beginnings of it. It’s clear now that everyone (including me) is engaged in the correcting of the issues coming much later from this through various means but not willing to acknowledge the start of it. VINEETO: It is indeed the instinctual programming that automatically places ‘me’ in the centre of all ‘my’ feelings and actions, thus creating a ‘me’ and ‘them’, whereas increasing naiveté allows you to recognize that everyone is inflicted with the same instinctual passions as you, and you can more easily (unilaterally) recognize them as fellow human beings. * VINEETO: You have identified the nub of the old paradigm which applies both to the spiritual as well as the materialistic aspect – your ‘being’ searching for the fulfilment that only an actual freedom can provide. Instead, for millennia people have been settling for second best – either spiritual enlightenment or material fulfilment, as in addictions to ‘highs’, ranging from drugs, success, group-highs, winning competitions, admiration or similar ‘self’-enhancing activities. It is an excellent realisation to have identified this as “‘my’ path”, in contrast to the wide and wondrous path. It is a dead-end road unless you want to settle for second best. This “limerence” only reifies the ‘self’ and the ‘self’s’
yearning for grandeur in the dream of the ‘good’ side – ‘self’-aggrandisement. The sooner you recognize,
and consequently decline, the nature of the “dream” the sooner the attraction to the “most
intense suffering” will also abate. Perhaps a thorough investigation of what is left of “the
dream of ‘love’” might be useful – CHRONO: It’s something that I have been thinking about since reading the correspondence thus far. Why do I want this dream (of love and limerence) to be true? What is this dream composed of? I realized this past week that for the unknown path to become apparent that the belief in ALL of ‘my’ dreams would have to go. All of ‘my’ dreams were somewhere and somewhen else. They would never actually manifest here. This brought a strange sense of relief. I know at some level that I am only fooling myself with some deception. Then while leaving work and heading home I experienced a sensuousness I quite often experience at the end of the day and had a spontaneous realization that the end of ‘my’ dreams was also the end of all of ‘my’ nightmares. VINEETO: This is an excellent realisation – “the end of ‘my’ dreams was also the end of all of ‘my’ nightmares”. The good feelings keep the bad feelings in place. Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ often found when there was a stubborn emotional problem that it was a certain dream or other cherished attachment which needed to be looked at before ‘she’ could resolve/ dissolve the problem. CHRONO: The next day while I mulled this over, I got a “peek” behind this. All of this was due to the essential pain of being ‘me’. And I felt deep down what ‘my’ essential task was despite this pain. ‘My’ task is to survive at all costs. Every single moment that ‘I’ am ‘being’ is another moment that ‘I’ am buying “time” to survive. At literally any moment ‘I’ can die. There’s a realm of fear here that’s raw and untouched. Very immediate and urgent. I backed away from it. But then I started again thinking about time. I realize that a very big bulk of ‘me’ is this feeling of existing over time. But it’s always any other time than this moment. Much of my modus operandi has been to change ‘me’ while also remaining ‘me’. Now it’s clear that ‘I’ cannot end ‘me’. My thinking was something like ‘I’ trying to expose ‘me’ and this would dissolve ‘me’. But ‘I’ have to ‘be’ naiveté. I’ve been cunningly trying to take a “shortcut”. VINEETO: Excellent contemplations and discoveries, Chrono. Every identity is trying to “take a “shortcut”” – it’s the very nature of being an imaginary yet passionate identity. You can pat yourself on the back for each time you discover another one of ‘my’ strategies and enjoy and appreciate your insights and success. CHRONO: While all of the above was being “churned” at the back of my mind, I was reading this correspondence and this suddenly made sense:
This flesh and blood body has its own consciousness independent of ‘me’. This was so interesting and so fascinating. VINEETO: Yes, there is a consciousness, the sentience of this flesh-and-blood body,
naturally. It is not “its own consciousness” because you are this flesh-and-blood body, it is
your own consciousness. The identity only hijacks this marvellous capacity and blights it with passions and emotions,
distortions and problems. Hence the suggestion to get back to feeling good before you begin to sort out any triggers
to your diminishment of enjoyment and appreciation. A flesh and blood body entirely “independent of ‘me’”
operates apperceptively CHRONO: I started experiencing a pain at the back of my neck.
Then it was like a heavy blanket was removed from over my body slowly and I was here. This body was as if moving on
its own. No reference to ‘me’. I went to help someone at work and I expected a near pull back to think about what
‘I’ am supposed to do but I was already doing it. To be friendly and helpful was no longer something that I had
to attain to. I am now thinking of Richard’s wonder-land-tale VINEETO: A great description of a PCE. How easy to be right here, once you realised that a flesh and blood body can perfectly function without any help from ‘me’. CHRONO: But it passed and ‘I’ started to wonder how can ‘I’ get from ‘me’ to “there”. Not long after ‘I’ was quickly met with another challenge at work. Someone came up and demanded with a small level of aggression that I give them their money or they will not leave. I started feeling that fear of being faced with the potential of another’s verbal assault (which seems backed by the fear of being physically assaulted). I ended up being able to help them and get them what they need and had a subsequent realization. Even though I felt fear, I simultaneously experienced everything to be well due to the “after-effect” of the prior experience. What I saw during it though was that ‘I’ felt slighted by the way they approached me for help. Thus I also became aware of an anger building in myself. Towards the end of it I became aware of how ‘I’ was standing in the way of beneficence operating again. I also became aware of how much “respect” plays a role in society. Respect is backed by the fear of violence. Every identity demands respect. And this respect is to acknowledge their identity in the first place. VINEETO: You can give them respect as fellow human beings just as you can give this respect to yourself. With increased awareness how you feel each moment the upcoming problems are easily dealt with, without you having to act out any of the emotions which arise. A perfect example of the actualism in practice. * VINEETO: However, there is no point in going into these limerences once you know what they are about or into the feelings of the fear of ending ‘me’ again and again unless ‘I’ am prepared, via discovering and dissolving the last bastions of ‘me’ objecting to ‘my’ demise, especially when you already found out that you “would go in circles”. CHRONO: Yes I need to bring being happy and harmless each
moment again in every aspect of my life while still remaining ‘me’. It makes a lot of sense. VINEETO: It is also a lot of fun, and even more fun when you get into the habit of appreciating your successes. Cheers Vineeto
CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, As always, I greatly appreciate your responses and participation. VINEETO: Thank you for your extensive reflections. The way you phrased the last sentence it looks as if naiveté, though being the least attractive option for ‘me’, is nevertheless the only way to achieve a more continuous feeling good? CHRONO: I phrased it that way because I unknowingly had the emotional investment in the other options such as love as a way to achieve fulfillment or continuous feeling good. It’s only through seeing its limitations through seeing the light and dark sides of it that only one path remains open so to speak. Also because I have not gone deep enough into naiveté for it to become ‘my’ path. I can see how this path even to being naiveté is different to what everyone in the world does. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, You are very welcome. I’m pleased to hear you recognized the dark side of love and no longer consider it an option “to achieve fulfillment”. Of course “this path even to being naiveté is different to what everyone in the world does” – the actual world is outside of ‘me’ and everyone in the world is busy being ‘me’. Before you contemplate ‘being naiveté’ or going “deep”, or “planning of naiveté being ‘your’ path”, it is not. It is the path of self-less inclination, hence ‘you’ won’t have much of a role to play apart from objecting. �� Why not start being naïve, in little steps. First it feels a bit uncomfortable, foolish or insecure (like a teenager first talking to a girl for instance). Then you dare extending this modus operandi a bit longer, expand into other areas of life – and you find it feels good, light, different, felicitous. You do it at your own pace, of course, don’t even think of pushing yourself, perhaps remember how you were as a kid (but now with adult sensibilities) and … enjoy it. You might find other people respond, like it, even become more friendly (naiveté is infectious). Allowing yourself to be naive is indeed different to what serious sophisticated people in the world do – but who cares. Being naïve, you like yourself and simultaneously like others. It feels good, it is harmless and it’s infectious. Appreciate your small steps, then bigger steps, in this new way of living. It gives you confidence. It is intimate and invites naïve intimacy with fellow human beings. Being naïve includes not knowing what you are going to do next, or say next, being spontaneously happy and harmless. The less you pay attention to any self-image or pride, the easier it becomes. Putting everything on a ‘it doesn’t matter’ basis allows you to be less ‘self’-oriented and more open to the adventure of what being here actually is. It’s fun. CHRONO: So I am now trying to rememorate all of the times and experiences of being naiveté in my life. I particularly enjoyed reading “A Rather Quaint Clay-Pit Tale” and the description and experience of being naiveté. VINEETO: Don’t “try”, don’t ‘work’ on it – just allow the hidden-away-during-puberty childhood naïveté to bubble up.
CHRONO: I am wondering what are your thoughts on this: VINEETO: It’s a wonderful and inspiring story; perhaps if you not use it as a serious sophisticated script but start by being sincere and naïve you’ll have more fun than trying to be naiveté right away. CHRONO: What was your experience of this as an identity? Is it something that you can just do anytime or only at a certain point? VINEETO: It only requires lots of enjoyment and appreciation, so much so that letting go of the controls is inevitable. It was a great time – naiveté fully bloomed when I was out-from-control (being naiveté and being out-from-control is in fact one and the same thing). There was no fear after I decided to pull out all the stops. There are several descriptions of this time of my life on the website, here is one –
* VINEETO: Yes, there is a tangible dare “to have a genuine intent to be happy and harmless”. Hence unless you genuinely enjoy being happy and harmless for its own sake you won’t care to dare leaving the ties behind that so (comfortably and uncomfortably) bind you. When pure intent is active, there are no worries of being “callous” or “uncaring”. CHRONO: I am getting a flavour of naiveté now as I’m typing and reflecting. Similar to my
previous experience in the journal of allowing myself to meet people where they are
VINEETO: Indeed, when you are genuine, sincere in your aim to imitate the actual as much as possible, being naïve comes easy and with it fall away the self-deprecating feelings that have dominated your daily life. It is such a relief to finally be able to like yourself no matter what, and hence like others. CHRONO: I can see in that direction that there are no worries of being callous or uncaring as both others and myself are easily in consideration and regard. As I’m thinking on this I find that another one of my worries is something like “how can I like others when they are being ‘bad’?” And I found a ready answer as I feel myself likeable then others can also be likeable irregardless of the antics they get up to. VINEETO: Exactly. CHRONO: I find then a subsequent objection that reads like “I can be more easily hurt the more naïve that I am” but here in this place where I am already likeable, I don’t think it could be possible to be hurt. But it does highlight the belief in me of how that to be naïve is to be “unknowing” or “unaware”. VINEETO: Well, it is still possible to be hurt because you might still have unexamined issues, but that is the challenge and opportunity to clean yourself up. The main fear, as you said, is that you don’t know what will be happening – being naïve you would more likely welcome the adventure rather than fear it. CHRONO: As a follow up to that, I am realizing that it’s a very viable alternative to love. I am allowing this to “soak in”. It relates to caring in which I can only sum up currently as love is dishonest in that it does not truly regard the other (because it’s mainly about ‘me’), while naiveté does. Are you making a spreadsheet for all the pros and cons before you start living it? And who is in charge of making the assessment? ‘Me’ and ‘my’ desires and fears or pure intent? Armchair planning gets you nowhere – dare, and care to dare, and just do it. * VINEETO: I talked to Andrew about guilt recently
CHRONO: Yes I hadn’t considered that the root of the feeling of guilt came instinctually. I will have to make this deliberate shift and start from there. VINEETO: Ah, another “I will have to”. But you can voluntarily make a shift because intimacy is such a delicious happening to explore. Actualism is not like learning or training for an exam like in the real world – if it’s not fun and being friendly with yourself, don’t even consider it. * VINEETO: Well, of course if you start with the top-most grade, so to speak, and want ‘magical
sex’ right away without exploring and getting accustomed to the preceding stages of Grace’s gradation scale
CHRONO: I think as far as sex goes the best I’ve had from the gradations of intimacy is “good sex”, but now I can make a deliberate aim towards experiencing the full gradations. You can probe and experiment and enjoy the whole way. Again, there is no exam to pass at the end and no medals to collect. * VINEETO: Which means it [intimity] is never talked about and hence entirely new to human history. It’s time someone puts it into practice and brings delicious intimacy into “the ken of humankind”. The more you allow yourself to be naïve the easier you have access to the near-innocent intimacy of naïveté. CHRONO: And that someone will be me! VINEETO: Marvellous. * VINEETO: Yes, there is a consciousness, the sentience of this flesh-and-blood body,
naturally. It is not “its own consciousness” because you are this
flesh-and-blood body, it is your own consciousness. The identity only hijacks this marvellous capacity and blights it
with passions and emotions, distortions and problems. Hence the suggestion to get back to feeling good before you begin
to sort out any triggers to your diminishment of enjoyment and appreciation. A flesh and blood body entirely “independent
of ‘me’” operates apperceptively CHRONO: I have been wondering, is it possible for this awareness of being a flesh and blood body to also be there as a feeling being? Could it be a connection between ‘me’ and the actual? The reason I ask is because I do always have this inkling that I’m here this whole time all the time. VINEETO: Yes, it is possible, mainly from lingering memories of your various PCEs and moments of apperceptiveness. The “awareness of being a flesh and blood body” can peek through, especially when no good or bad feelings interfere with your enjoyment and appreciation of being here. But this does not mean that there is a “connection between ‘me’ and the actual”. * VINEETO: You can give them respect as fellow human beings just as you can give this respect to yourself. With increased awareness how you feel each moment the upcoming problems are easily dealt with, without you having to act out any of the emotions which arise. A perfect example of the actualism in practice. CHRONO: The word “respect” for me has always had a connotation of some authority
involvement backed by punishment and reward. It seems to translate into “stay in line”. Could “regard” perhaps be a synonym instead for it in this
context of seeing them as a fellow human being? VINEETO: The word “respect” comes from the Latin respectus, meaning
“a looking at” or “regard”, and the verb respicere, “to look back at”. (https://www.etymonline.com/word/respect). As you can see the word has a perfectly neutral origin, it’s time that the meaning again expands from having “a connotation of some authority” only. I like both words. As for authority, that is a different issue for another conversation. For now, if you are
interested, I recommend the selected correspondences found on the library page regarding authority Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: Before you contemplate ‘being naiveté’ or going “deep”, or “planning of naiveté being ‘your’ “path”, it is not. It is the path of self-less inclination, hence ‘you’ won’t have much of a role to play apart from objecting. Why not start being naïve, in little steps. First it feels a bit uncomfortable, foolish or insecure (like a teenager first talking to a girl for instance). Then you dare extending this modus operandi a bit longer, expand into other areas of life – and you find it feels good, light, different, felicitous. You do it at your own pace, of course, don’t even think of pushing yourself, perhaps remember how you were as a kid (but now with adult sensibilities) and … enjoy it. You might find other people respond, like it, even become more friendly (naiveté is infectious). Allowing yourself to be naive is indeed different to what serious sophisticated people in the world do – but who cares. Being naïve, you like yourself and simultaneously like others. It feels good, it is harmless and it’s infectious. Appreciate your small steps, then bigger steps, in this new way of living. It gives you confidence. It is intimate and invites naïve intimacy with fellow human beings. Being naïve includes not knowing what you are going to do next, or say next, being spontaneously happy and harmless. The less you pay attention to any self-image or pride, the easier it becomes. Putting everything on a ‘it doesn’t matter’ basis allows you to be less ‘self’-oriented and more open to the adventure of what being here actually is. It’s fun. CHRONO: I have been thinking on what you say here. And it struck me that the peace-on-earth of actual freedom is already always existing. Peace-on-earth exists already but only when ‘I’ in my entirety am no more. Thus the path is of a self-less inclination. Perhaps I’ve undiscerningly glossed over it. I also took note of what you wrote at the end that “It’s fun”. Well, am I having fun consistently? Am I enjoying and appreciating consistently? What’s in the way? What is it I really want? VINEETO: Indeed, this is the very way the actualism method works in a nutshell. By following a self-less inclination you are having fun and vice versa, felicitous and innocuous feelings don’t provide fodder for ‘me’. CHRONO: Thus in an overall manner to having more fun consistently the thing that sticks out to me the most is what I can only describe as a persona that’s bent on being sophisticated. A sophisticate. Making things complicated. Setting up an “image” of myself. Being serious. Even the visceral manoeuvring in my thinking and feeling. I found immediate relief in this noticing because only in this way I finally don’t have to be a “someone”. Interestingly, it was one of my major qualms with work that I noticed a while back. It’s not that work itself is majorly difficult, it’s that I have to be a “someone” at work. But it’s actually enjoyable when I don’t. Being a “someone” is a serious business. And this extends to pretty much every aspect of my life. VINEETO: It’s wonderful, isn’t it. To be ‘someone’ is the modus operandi for which you have been conditioned since childhood, backed up by the instinctual imperative of survival – but is this really still necessary? As you say “it’s actually enjoyable when I don’t”. It is also possible because you can be naïve with all your adult sensibility intact. * VINEETO: Don’t “try”, don’t ‘work’ on it – just allow the hidden-away-during-puberty childhood naïveté to bubble up. CHRONO: Yes I’ve set my benchmark that if there’s a feeling of effort or “work” involved then something may be amiss. I was thinking that maybe I’m just being lazy, but then the opposite of this is to be getting to “work” on it. VINEETO: Yes, the real-world rules, morals and dogmas operate in opposites and have only two alternatives. There is a third alternative. * VINEETO: Well, it is still possible to be hurt because you might still have unexamined issues, but that is the challenge and opportunity to clean yourself up. The main fear, as you said, is that you don’t know what will be happening – being naïve you would more likely welcome the adventure rather than fear it. CHRONO: Yes it’s much more enjoyable to welcome the adventure rather than fear it. One of the things that I noticed in the PCE described prior was that I did not “know” what would happen next or even what I would say or do. It happened of its own accord and I acted in a beneficial and friendly way. And I noticed after some time that ‘my’ main way of being is to be control itself. I am always projecting into a past, present, and future. This is a way to ensure that ‘I’ exist and remain in control. This aspect of there not being control is scary to me because it feels this is the way that I can protect this body. VINEETO: Indeed, being in control is the sole function of this contingent ‘being’, ‘me’, the entity which does not exist in its own right and needs to control to prevent being exposed as such. ‘You’ need to keep working hard to justify ‘your’ existence, whereas “it’s actually enjoyable when I don’t”, when you can allow yourself to be what you are. You lessen control by progressively allowing the obstacles to enjoyment and appreciation to disappear via attentiveness and (if necessary) investigation – and thus by imitating the actual. * VINEETO: Are you making a spreadsheet for all the pros and cons before you start living it? And who is in charge of making the assessment? ‘Me’ and ‘my’ desires and fears or pure intent? Armchair planning gets you nowhere – dare, and care to dare, and just do it. CHRONO: Ha, weirdly a mental spreadsheet sounds like something that I am “supposed” to do. But if I keep it simple, I just enjoy feeling good. This unravelling of what I have been doing this whole time is helping push the envelope further. VINEETO: It makes it so much simpler, doesn’t it? * CHRONO: I have been wondering, is it possible for this awareness of being a flesh and blood body to also be there as a feeling being? Could it be a connection between ‘me’ and the actual? The reason I ask is because I do always have this inkling that I’m here this whole time all the time. VINEETO: Yes, it is possible, mainly from lingering memories of your various PCEs and moments of apperceptiveness. The “awareness of being a flesh and blood body” can peek through, especially when no good or bad feelings interfere with your enjoyment and appreciation of being here. But this does not mean that there is a “connection between ‘me’ and the actual”. CHRONO: Is this because only being naiveté can make this connection? Or that there cannot actually be a connection between ‘me’ and the actual? VINEETO: ‘I’ can never enter the actual world, hence no connection whatsoever. When ‘I’ disappear, the actual world becomes apparent, when ‘I’ reappear, the actual world is no longer apparent. But you, the flesh-and-blood body can have shorter or longer moments of apperception where you are aware that you are the flesh-and-blood body – this is the very definition of apperception, the mind’s experience of itself, unmediated by the identity. Of course, once ‘I’ re-enter the arena, ‘I’ claim the experience for myself, hence your impression that there is a connection.
Naiveté facilitates ‘my’ diminishment and ‘my’ intermittent disappearance, yet the word ‘connection’ does not apply. * VINEETO: The word “respect” comes from the Latin respectus, meaning “a
looking at” or “regard”, and the verb respicere, “to look back at”. (https://www.etymonline.com/word/respect). Development of meaning: From this original sense, the meaning evolved to include
“regard”, “esteem”, and “consideration”. (Merriam Webster) CHRONO: I think the reason that the word respect has the connotations of some authority (as opposed to authoritative) is because my parents would always say that I need to respect them (and anyone else who holds a particular position). Thus I have been differentiating that word when used usually in a real world setting from regard. But perhaps this takes a further looking into as I noticed in one of my previous posts way back that I had a habit of being a ‘victim’. I’ve taken on board that I need to ‘respect’ people but this means in a sort of psychic submission type of way. And also backed (originally from my parents) that if I don’t then I do not “care” and I will be physically punished. This way of operating demonstrates a complete lack of equity. And equally would not be a way to bring it about. At the core of this is the belief that I need to psychically submit or else people will get angry (sounds very silly and feels embarrassing when I write it out). VINEETO: I don’t know what holds authority, anyone’s authority, in place for you. For ‘Vineeto’ the very justification for any authority disappeared in one fell swoop with the startling apperceptive discovery –
It had been quite a startling and consequential PCE. CHRONO: I noticed in the From Basic Actual Freedom to Full Actual Freedom Part 1
CHRONO: Would you say this course of action only applies if you are basically free? VINEETO: It was written with the social identity in mind who remains in part or entirely in situ when one becomes basically free. When your aim is to become actually free then obviously the outlook of the feeling being identity is equally backward oriented. As such everything I wrote in that paragraph also applies to feeling beings. You can dismantle your psychic and conditioning ties to authority at any time. CHRONO: I also noticed in the same correspondence Richard writes:
CHRONO: I have been wondering if what I experience is an example of a
“need for power” or if that need is something else. VINEETO: Are you asking if the habit of being a ‘victim’ is related to a “need for power”? It certainly is, it is the flip-side of the same power structure, which, being sourced in the instinctual passions of fear and aggression, is operating ubiquitously. By choosing to be naïvely happy and harmless you voluntarily withdraw from the battlefield (not as a pacifist or virtue-hunter) but as someone who prefers (i.e. values more) getting along in a beneficial way with your fellow human beings. You are playing a different game, so to speak. Or, as Richard called it – playing for fun, not for keeps. Cheers Vineeto
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
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