|
(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Scout on Discuss Actualism Forum
KUBA: This is yet another reason why actualism is experiential because all words have been invented by feeling beings and therefore on their own they cannot quite convey actuality, they will simply go around in circles and never reveal the actual nature of this universe. Eternal will be taken to mean a very long lapse of time or infinite a very long stretch of space and yet the actual experience of infinitude is outside of those descriptions. All of those real world descriptions still infer some ultimate movement/distance to time/space. Whereas actual time and space exist within the stillness of infinitude. Even writing the word “within” seems to screw it up As in that stillness is the very infinite
and eternal nature of this universe. VINEETO: Yes, I had the same thought when I read it – the word “within” didn’t seem to be quite right and then your last sentence expressed it exactly. Only someone experiencing (or having experienced) actuality can say this with utter confidence. It is indeed experiential. SCOUT: May I ask – what does this mean? It feels directly in opposition to the Richard
quote you shared in Henry’s thread KUBA (to Scout): I’ll have a go at this in the meantime “You have all the time in the universe” is referring specifically to one’s experience as a flesh and blood body only, one exists where time has no duration. It is impossible to ever ‘run out of time’ as time does not move in actuality. Whereas as an identity ‘I’ am locked out of eternal time and instead ‘I’ exist precariously across the past, present and future. This is where ‘I’ am always managing, anticipating and running out of time. As it is always this moment, this body does not move through time like the identity moves across the past, present and future. Rather this body exists securely in eternal time. In eternal time there is no distance to be travelled between ‘then’ and ‘now’ as the immediate is the ultimate, whereas ‘I’ am forever shifting between these thin slivers of ‘real time’, desperately trying to hold, manage and anticipate each one. I think I have just answered in part my own question – of why is it that where time has no
duration there is such safety. Because all this painful psychological/psychic activity which comes from ‘managing
time’ (whilst being forever locked out of actual time) ceases when one exists in eternal time. Everything is in its
place already as one is not actually going anywhere or coming from somewhere. VINEETO: Yes, one can never run out of time in actuality, it is always now, and I am always here and the universe being perfect and pure everything is already perfect. To answer Scout’s question more in detail, here is a quote from Richard’s journal –
SCOUT: Interesting, I’ve had experiences on psychedelics where psychological time ceased to exist as I’d previously known it, as well as the anxiety around it – but there was still change and a direction to change. there was no longer anticipation or anxiety surrounding where that change was leading, just presence. Is that the “eternity” Vineeto and Richard discuss? time is not a concern or even really felt because the mind stops creating a past or future. but there is still always the change and there is only so much change I will experience before all experience ends. But maybe that doesn’t matter when I’m not worried about what’s not happening now. the
sense of the “clock ticking” is mostly just fear yeah? VINEETO: Hi Scout, You cannot think your way into this, it is indeed experiential. Have you ever experienced that when you are feeling good, time seems to fly while when you are sad or worried time seems to go on forever? This is a perfect example of ‘personal’ time, it’s all coloured by ‘me’, how ‘I’ feel, what ‘I’ want (or don’t want). Contemplate just this sentence: “To ‘be’ is to take this moment of being alive personally … as being proof of ‘my’ subjective existence” and then, in attentive contemplation become fascinated by the very fact that ‘you’ and 8 billion other people all have their own personal experience of time. It can’t be that time is like this, can it? There is an alternative how to think about this – apperceptiveness. You can try it out in a quiet moment. (Library, Topics, Apperception) Cheers Vineeto
SCOUT: Thank you for the thoughtful responses Vineeto, I will explore. VINEETO: Hi Scout, You are very welcome. Seeing you enjoyed the responses, I like to explore your original question a bit further. SCOUT: Interesting, I’ve had experiences on psychedelics where psychological time ceased
to exist as I’d previously known it, as well as the anxiety around it – but there was still change and a
direction to change. there was no longer anticipation or anxiety surrounding where that change was leading, just
presence. VINEETO: Yes, events change but when ‘I’ am in abeyance either in a PCE or when actually free, it is evidently obvious that time does not move, no matter which events take place in the arena of time. Here is a stillness that is all around, unimaginable, inconceivable and utterly magical. To explain, when ‘I’ am in abeyance then ‘I’ am no longer the centre around which ‘my’ perception and ‘my’ world view revolves. When ‘I’ am in abeyance, or extinguished, there is no “presence”, there is no centre, there is only here, this place in space and now, this moment in time. I am not sure what you mean when you say “just presence”? Could it be that this “presence” was ‘Being’ or ‘Me’? It would be good to explore so you do not take a possible ASC as your loadstone. SCOUT: Is that the “eternity” Vineeto and Richard discuss? Time is not a concern or even really felt because the mind stops creating a past or future. but there is still always the change and there is only so much change I will experience before all experience ends. VINEETO: Given that you are not sure then it is better not to rely on those experiences, especially as most experiences with psychedelics turn out to be ASCs. Viz.:
SCOUT: But maybe that doesn’t matter when I’m not worried about what’s not happening now. The sense of the “clock ticking” is mostly just fear yeah? VINEETO: It does matter a great deal. You would want a clear experience of the actual world in order to guide you, and when you rely on something that very likely was an ASC then you are getting confused at best. If you were really “not worried about what’s not happening now” then you would be enjoying and appreciating each moment of being alive to the point of continuously feeling excellent – but that is not the case, is it? And you wouldn’t have to ask if “the sense of the ”clock ticking“ is mostly just fear yeah? The “clock ticking” means you live in real-world time of past, present, future, like every other feeling being, and have conveniently convinced yourself of the belief that you are “not worried about what’s not happening now” while the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ instinctual passions are happening unobserved. Don’t you want to find out how you tick, how your mind really works, how you can genuinely feel felicitous and innocuous 23 hrs 59 min a day? Wouldn’t that be worthy of your fascinated attention? Here is a short quote from Richard’s correspondence with a spiritualist regarding eternity for your amusement – (Richard, List B, No. 42b, 7 Dec 2001). Cheers Vineeto
SCOUT: Thanks for elaborating further. I’ve had experiences on psychedelics that were definitely ASCs but also ones that were definitely PCEs, which stand as the goalpost I have oriented my whole life around and they’re how I was able to recognize the truth in yours and Richard’s writings. VINEETO: I am not sure what you mean when you say “just presence”? Could it be that this “presence” was ‘Being’ or ‘Me’? It would be good to explore so you do not take a possible ASC as your loadstone. SCOUT: Good catch, I was using spiritual lingo here but what I really meant was just raw, un-centered senses and the inescapable present moment - like it was impossible for there to be anything other than what was immediately physically happening because whatever imaginary centerpoint that usually mediates my conscious experience and imagines a past and a future was entirely gone. VINEETO: Hi Scout, Thank you for clarifying. It’s really good that you can clearly tell the difference and thus don’t accidentally go down the wrong alley. * VINEETO: If you were really “not worried about what’s not happening now” then you would be enjoying and appreciating each moment of being alive to the point of continuously feeling excellent – but that is not the case, is it? And you wouldn’t have to ask if “the sense of the “clock ticking” is mostly just fear yeah?” SCOUT: I also may have miscommunicated here as that comment was more intended as conjecture than stating how I actually feel right now. I’m pretty ill and exhausted most of the time and I definitely still worry about it. As you pointed out though, conjecture is kind of an empty mental exercise compared to aiming to actually become free. Thank you for clarifying this as well. It’s become more apparent what you would like to achieve. * VINEETO: Don’t you want to find out how you tick, … SCOUT: Yes, so badly. I feel bad pretty often. I try to set my bearings and observe myself
honestly and keep getting lost in the weeds. But I can see my confusion and stress make my body sicker than it
already is. I want to stop torturing myself and to be well. Ah, now we are talking, lol. Here is something I recently wrote to another and they reported instant success, so I wonder if it will work for you as well … First let me tell you a fundamental fact one needs to recognize in order to successfully apply
the actualism method or any other advice I can give you – you do not have feelings, you are your
feelings. Without recognizing this the method won’t work. (I recommend a long piece of correspondence with No. 60
on the Actual Freedom list To explain: humans are born as feeling beings, babies cry before they can think, and before they even develop a sense of self – so feelings come first. But then thinking sets in and one starts to think that you have feelings which come and go and try to manipulate those feelings, blame yourself for the unwanted ones and chase the ones that you like feeling. That is a sort of subtle dissociation and it doesn’t allow you to choose how you feel, for instance felicitous. So that is an understanding which needs to happen first, at a fundamental level. You are this swirling vortex created by ever-changing instinctual passions and it is not your fault (because everyone is born that way). With this firmly in mind you can stop blaming yourself and you will find that the moment you do that, the feeling itself will diminish (not disappear) but lose some of its strength. The reason is that fighting the feeling you are feeding it. Now when you put this in practice and notice the effect, you can pat yourself on the back that you had your first insight and success. Be a friend to yourself (the only one you are with 24hrs a day). The other benefit of recognizing and accepting that you are your feelings is that you are not a victim, neither a victim of your own feelings nor a victim of other people’s feelings. This quote from Richard might be helpful as well –
Cheers Vineeto
Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer |
