Vineeto’s Correspondence on the Actual Freedom List
Correspondent No 56
Welcome to the Actual Freedom mailing list.
RESPONDENT: May I comment about the paragraph below of your last email?
The state of permanency (wanting to have always peace, joy, bliss) is what all of us actually want, isn’t it? We want a state in which there will be no disturbance of any kind and which will never come to an end, a permanent state which we call peace; and the mind is making a constant effort to capture that state, to enter into it. So we have to understand the process that is involved in this effort. Surely, the mind is seeking a permanent happiness, permanent stillness, a reality which is secure, unchanging; and as long as the mind is seeking a permanent state, it must create paths to that state. But can we get it? Is there a state which knows no change at all?
Actuality is ‘what is’ and what is is not a permanent state, it is a constant movement because we are never the same from moment to moment, and to find out what is true, it is essential to see what we are from moment to moment. Life is action; each moment of this action has never been before, and will never be again. If we thought of ourselves as in a state of continual movement, then there would be no conflict between the changing circumstances of life and the thing we now think of as being permanent. The constant desire for greater and greater sensation must inevitably lead to pain and sorrow, as this desire makes us prisoners at the very beginning.
I can also see very clearly that there can be a state of mind in which there is no change at all, but it can only come about when the mind is motionless and stable. Such a motionless state is a still mind, not a dead mind, and it knows neither impermanency nor permanency. It is a mind that is completely quiet. Such a mind does not demand change, and all its action springs from that silence. That is the only state in which the conflict of the worrying mind completely ceases. So, is it possible to move from here to there, but not in time?
When you understand the whole process of change, and thereby let it drop away from you, you will see that the mind is in a state of silence in which all movement of time has ceased, and that new movement of silence is not recognizable and therefore not experienceable. Such a state does not demand change; it is in eternal movement, and therefore beyond time.
Let us attack it from another point of view. Are you ever conscious of being silent? Have you experienced silence? If you have experienced silence, then it is not silence, is it? If there is an observer observing silence, then it is the projection of the experiencer – the experiencer wishing to be in a state of silence. Therefore it is not silence. Reality can never be experienced; if you do experience reality, then it is not reality because then there is the division between the experiencer and the experience. That division signifies duality and all the conflicts of duality. So silence can never be experienced.
A mind which is silent is not conscious that it is silent. So also with humility. If you are conscious that you are humble, then that is not humility. If I am conscious that I know, then I am ignorant. If I am conscious that my mind is silent, then there is no silence. So silence is a state of mind in which there is the absence of the experiencer. Can you listen in that state of silence, being unaware that you are silent?
Any experience which has continuity is based on envy, on the demand for the ‘more’; so the mind must die to everything it has learned, acquired, experienced. Then you will find that the mind is silent, and this silence has its own movement, uncontaminated by the past; therefore, it is possible for something totally new to take place.
We think truth can be experienced right away through doing certain things. You think there is a state which is permanent, and you want it, so you practice, discipline, do various methods or forms of exercise, but you will not get it. The mind must be free – it must have no borders, no frontier, no limitation, no conditioning. The whole sense of acquisitiveness must come to an end, but not in order to receive.
VINEETO: The ‘state of permanency’ you are referring to in your regurgitation of Mr. Jiddu Krishnamurti’s teachings is not at all what I was talking about when I said to No 16 –
The following links on the Actual Freedom Trust website can assist you in finding out in what way any and all spiritual teachings lie 180 degree opposite to an actual freedom from the human condition which can be temporarily experienced in a ‘self’-less pure consciousness experience.
If I were interested in teachings of Mr. Jiddu Krishnamurti’s, I would not rely on rewrites from his followers but I would read what the man himself said. However, in my 15+ years of 24/7 involvement in Eastern mysticism I have gathered enough experience and evidence to be certain that none of the highly revered teachings from the various masters does deliver the goods. What’s more, peace on earth is not even on their agenda. Mr. Jiddu Krishnamurti himself has made it clear to all who take his words to be the Truth that following his ‘Teachings’ will not result in any of his followers manifesting the ‘supreme intelligence’ he claimed to have had –
If you had not been so keen to peddle your borrowed wisdom on this list, you might have taken notice that the very first line on the Actual Freedom Homepage reads –
I admit one needs a certain amount of naiveté to take those first six words of the website at face value, given that there are a glut of snake oil sellers out and about advertising their otherworldly rehash of ancient superstition as being not only new but also non-spiritual. However, if you have come across this Actual Freedom mailing list because you are in some way disenchanted with Eastern mysticism then I suggest you study the contents of the website rather than waste your time preaching to those who have moved on.
RESPONDENT: How are you?
VINEETO: I am excellent, thank you.
RESPONDENT: So finally you’ve decided to show up!
VINEETO: It has obviously escaped your attention but I showed up a good while ago. I have been here on this mailing list since its inception – t’is you who are the most recent ‘new-gurus-buster’ in what is now a long line of a passing parade.
RESPONDENT: Thank you for welcoming me to this email-listing. I was curious to find out what you guys of the AF are ‘actually’ saying – presently, now, in this moment, quasi live. Your website is too old; it’s the past. So don’t direct me to it anymore, please. Be patient and kind and let us read your ‘actual’, ‘innate’ wisdom of this moment.
VINEETO: What I wrote 3 years ago is as valid today as what I write today. When I discovered actualism in 1998 it took me about a year of diligently applying the method of actualism to rid myself of the bulk of my social identity and then begin to explore the depth of my instinctual passions. Over a period of 5 years I have repeatedly reported my experience as to how actualism delivers the goods to make me happy and harmless. From numerous ‘self’-less, i.e. ego-less and being-less, pure consciousness experiences I have first hand knowledge that the splendour and effervescence of the actual world that far supersedes any affective or spiritual experience of freedom.
To dismiss what has been written before as being ‘too old’ is to be disinterested about what another human being has to report about their discovery of how to bring about peace on earth. Your dismissal of ‘too old, it’s the past’ particularly falls flat as you seem to have no problem holding valid what Jiddu Krishnamurti has said more than half a century ago. Vis:
I have moved on from the ancient wisdom, esoteric and superstition that is spirituality – the challenge for you now is, are you at all interested in something that is fresh and new?
RESPONDENT: The tone of your words are personal
VINEETO: Of course, my words are personal – I am talking to a fellow human being. I am having a personal communication about the adventure of being alive on this verdant planet.
VINEETO: If you had not been so keen to peddle your borrowed wisdom on this list, you might have taken notice that the very first line on the Actual Freedom Homepage reads –
RESPONDENT: [The tone of your words are personal] and harsh!
VINEETO: I read through my previous post to you very carefully and I did not find any harsh words – unless you felt it to be harsh that I am not interested in regurgitations of Jiddu Krishnamurti’s teachings.
RESPONDENT: Be careful, you can break your nervous system.
VINEETO: What you choose to experience as harsh is your business and has no effect on my nervous system whatsoever.
RESPONDENT: Relax, in freedom there is nothing to protect. But of course you are not free, you are committed to the new doctrine you have embraced [AF] which you believe delivers ‘the goods’. I have no idea what these goods could be,
VINEETO: Given that you consider everything written on the Actual Freedom Trust website as being ‘too old’ you will never know ‘what these goods could be’. I know that ‘not-knowing’ is highly valued in the spiritual world, but you do seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to remain ignorant about what we are talking about on this mailing list.
RESPONDENT: … my only guess is your experiencing ‘the stunning luminosity and perfection of the actual world in a ‘self’-less experience…’ which you are ‘all the more inspired and determined to do whatever it takes to live this experience 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.’ What are you talking about here? It sounds like an endless orgasm at any cost!
VINEETO: Don’t you think it would be a good idea to know a bit more about what you are planning to ‘bust’ before offering silly conclusions?
RESPONDENT: You believe that you have tasted these goods
VINEETO: I don’t ‘believe’ to have ‘tasted these goods’ – I have tasted them. A pure consciousness experience provides the experiential evidence of the actual world. If you were interested in reading more about the subject of what a ‘self’-less pure consciousness experience actually is, here is the relevant URL. By doing so you can begin to make your own evaluation of what is on offer here rather than hang on the coat tails of others – the ability to think for oneself is essential if one is ever to be free of the human condition.
RESPONDENT: …and now you are in the business of helping others to sample them!
VINEETO: I am not ‘in the business of helping others’ – what others are doing with my reports is entirely up to them. My business is to become actually free from the human condition and my being happy and harmless is entirely independent from anyone else.
RESPONDENT: The menu is fascinating, now bring us the food!
VINEETO: This is a sham comment – you have already declared that you are interested in neither ‘the menu’ nor ‘the food’. Vis –
VINEETO: I admit one needs a certain amount of naiveté to take those first six words of the website at face value, given that there are a glut of snake oil sellers out and about advertising their otherworldly rehash of ancient superstition as being not only new but also non-spiritual. However, if you have come across this Actual Freedom mailing list because you are in some way disenchanted with Eastern mysticism then I suggest you study the contents of the website rather than waste your time preaching to those who have moved on.
RESPONDENT: No doubt you guys are very ‘learned’ of JK writings (the new search engines help a lot on that). You all like to make propaganda of him, although in a negative way. Don’t bring dead people to the arena, it will be more valuable to you if you can see the ‘regurgitation’ of your own conditioning. Throw it out, get rid of it, so you can be decisively, permanently free and happy. Until then, to where are you seeing ‘those [your followers?] moving on’, where are they going? You are giving your ‘disciples’ the illusion of spiritual progress. You are ‘those’, don’t escape from yourself with ‘those’.
VINEETO: May I ask what is your personal experiential expertise for giving advice to others as how to conduct their lives? What of the wisdom you proffer has practically changed your life for the better in that it made you more happy and more harmonious in relation to your fellow human beings? So far I have only read that you practice being ‘tremendously aware of every movement of thought’ and that you practice ‘me listening to myself; like a mirror’. (To Richard, About Permanency, 29.9.2003). And your admonition to not bring dead people to the arena is odd given that it is you yourself who have come to this list offering the teachings of a LDM.
As for ‘those who moved on’, I was referring to myself and those few intrepid pioneers who have moved on from the ancient spiritual practices and philosophies and are interested in actually changing themselves, not ‘saving’ others. As Actualism is a method to be practiced entirely on one’s own; there are neither gurus nor followers nor disciples, so your jibes completely miss the mark on this list. I suggest reading a post from 7.8.2003 by No 47 on not ‘saving’ others (even though the term calenture is misappropriated here) as it might be useful to be aware of some responses to the other guru-busters and flamers who have come and gone before engaging in further foolishness.
As for the ‘illusion of spiritual progress’ – given that actualism is utterly and completely non-spiritual, as I have already explained in my last post to you – there is no such thing as ‘spiritual progress’. The progress lies in becoming more and more happy and harmless, more and more free from malice and sorrow and ever more delighting in being here. This progress is tangible, palpable and existing in fact.
RESPONDENT: You and I share the same consciousness field. We are like the rest of the world.
VINEETO: No, both of your statements are wrong. You and I don’t ‘share the same consciousness field’. You follow the guidelines of a died-in-the-wool spiritualist who described himself as God-realized while I have long ago rid myself of all spiritual beliefs – you and I are poles apart.
RESPONDENT: Don’t be so concerned with ‘pces’, ‘supreme intelligences’ or whatever names are given by those who believe have attained something. You are envious of them and their extraordinary experiences – you want to be as ‘special’ a being as they are.
VINEETO: There is a world of difference between a PCE and the ‘supreme intelligence’ of spiritual fame – 180 degrees opposite in fact (see ). Your statement is meaningless which makes your admonitions nonsense.
I certainly don’t want to be ‘as they are’ – I have studied the gurus, both male and female, both from afar and up close, and I didn’t like their lifestyle, I didn’t like how they were with their women or men and I didn’t like how they treated their fellow human beings. How can I be envious of them when I have found something far superior to spiritual enlightenment – the method to an actual tangible palpable freedom from the human condition, and the corroboration that the method works in practice – it has thus far produced a virtual freedom from malice and sorrow 99% of the time.
Has the thought ever crossed your mind, or should I say have you ever been aware of a movement of thought, that you might be wasting your time ‘busting’ what doesn’t exist here at all?
RESPONDENT: At last you’ve found the ‘mother-of-all-methods’ and its creator ‘the father-of-all-non-gurus’?
VINEETO: Given that you have no idea what this ‘mother-of-all-methods’ looks like in print, let alone how it works in practice, this statement is an inanity.
RESPONDENT: Your enlightenment will always depend on someone else. Haven’t you had enough?
VINEETO: Wrong again. I am not searching for enlightenment. Enlightenment is a delusional feeling state whereas an actual freedom is actual and irreversible, because ‘self’-immolation deletes the entire affective faculty once and for all. And what gave you the idea that I ‘depend on someone else’ – I am applying a method that frees me from malice and sorrow. Where is the dependency?
RESPONDENT: You cannot deny that you are the rest of the world, you are part of the human’s consciousness; one of its fragments. Consciousness is made up of all the things that have been collected by human beings as experience. This consciousness is divided and in permanent conflict.
VINEETO: Ah, here comes the hoary belief of a collective consciousness that ‘is divided and in permanent conflict’.
I no longer subscribe to any beliefs in a collective consciousness – such beliefs are only upheld by those who so desperately fear autonomy that they passionately cling to an imaginary collective. To uphold such beliefs is dependency writ large.
Consciousness is a function of each individual human brain and simply means the condition of being conscious, as in awake, aware, sentient, responsive, alert. Given that I have investigated my beliefs and feelings that arise from being a social identity and have become aware of my instinctual passions, as and when they arise, my consciousness is now neither collective, nor ‘divided’ nor ‘in permanent conflict’. It is utterly delightful not to be part of humanity’s mad and sorry consciousness.
RESPONDENT: If you want to change it will be just one of its fragments trying to change the others.
VINEETO: Ah, another psittacism, from the spiritual teachings specifically designed to ensure that those who are spiritualists remain within the fold – the spiritualist’s resistance to any and all change is legendary, both in the West and in the East. This psittacism was one of the first I had to throw out in order that I could even consider that I could actually do something about my feelings of malice and sorrow. I found out that it is in fact possible to free oneself of the shackles of the human condition. It is possible to change human nature.
RESPONDENT: You want a method? Try this: slow down. Slow down until you stop completely. No more desires, therefore no more frustrations and fears. No one to enjoy the peace. And in that quietness nothing is, the new inevitably is, ‘nothing’ is always new. You don’t have to beat your head trying to find the correct meaning of ‘new’; simply put: it’s the unconceivable. There is nothing mysterious or spiritual on that, is there? ‘You’ have to die for the new to be. Is there a method at all? Any method will give continuity to ‘you’. To die to memories, to the yesterday and the tomorrow, is surely to live with death, and in that state there is no fear and all the absurd inventions which fear creates.
VINEETO: Been there, done that.
As someone who sincerely and persistently practiced this twaddle for 17 years I know that the method you propose (and then denied that it was a method) does not work to rid one of malice and sorrow – the only thing it can produce is a delusionary state of dissociation. I wanted better than that. I wanted to live with a man in peace and harmony and I wanted genuine peace.
Actualism delivers, but one first has to get off one’s butt, get one’s head out of the clouds, and want to actually change. Nothing less will do.
RESPONDENT: Your turn Vineeto, loose your horses…
VINEETO: You lost me here, what ‘horses’ are you talking about? We have had others who see their sparring as ‘good sport’ – if that’s what you are referring to – but from this side of the fence I simply see that they are wasting a serendipitous opportunity.
RESPONDENT: Best regards,
No 56 (the new-gurus-buster)
VINEETO: You are not the only one who has come along and declared actualism to be yet another spiritual cult and then blithely bashes away at his or her own invention. In Australia we call it the ‘tall poppy syndrome’ – anyone reporting success or achieving success is bound to have to run the gauntlet of others. It’s all par for the course, but I do suggest reading up on what you have set out to destroy – it looks rather silly when you never hit a target, don’t you think?
RESPONDENT: To Richard – While my previous email is ‘marinating’ – so to speak – until an answer erupts from that mindless FBB [flesh and blood body] of yours, perhaps you would know why Vineeto, No 23 and No 50 are not answering to my emails? I wonder if by any chance you told them ‘leave <Respondent> with me; he’s mine, only mine’ or something of the sort? Just a thought :).
I am particular interested in Vineeto’s eagerness to get more of your ‘goods’ and your inability to deliver to her enough of ‘your goods’. Can’t you satiate her? This is an old question that still remains unanswered. So please click on the ‘reply’ button the moment you finish reading this email and give me an immediate straightforward answer. It’d be interesting to conclude this subject while at the same time observing how you react without much excogitation! Come on, do it now. You got nothing better to do; your pension provides all your needs.
VINEETO: Your reply is still in process ... it’s being savoured in the making, baked at 180 degrees and simmered slowly for a few days.
VINEETO: Here is your eagerly awaited answer, ready for consumption. Enjoy.
RESPONDENT: You could win any contest in matters of ‘enlightenment’!
VINEETO: As I said to you ‘I have found something far superior to spiritual enlightenment’ – it seems strange you could come up with this response. Has it ever occurred to you that you and I are talking about two different things? You talk about spiritual enlightenment, an illusionary freedom from an illusionary reality, and I talk about an actual freedom from the human condition.
RESPONDENT: The amount of experiences you have had over the years are impressive.
VINEETO: Well, it was never my thing to sit on the fence and watch or criticize what others are doing. When I was a spiritualist I jumped in boots and all and thus gained a lot of valuable experience – mainly insights about what doesn’t work.
RESPONDENT: You are superior; you deserve a Phd.
VINEETO: If you think that I am superior, that is between you and yourself but I am curious as to why you think I ‘deserve a PhD’ in matters of ‘enlightenment’? Are you a dean of the university of Mysticism or the honorary professor in the College of Enlightenment staging ‘contests in matters of ‘enlightenment’’? Besides, as far as I know, a Philosophy Degree is not given for practical hands-on experience but only, as the name indicates, for philosophical and theoretical elaborations.
RESPONDENT: You have been everywhere!
VINEETO: No, not everywhere but I have gained enough experience both in real world enterprises and in the spiritual world to know that the answer to the meaning of life is not to be found there.
RESPONDENT: What a burden you are carrying!
VINEETO: I wonder where you got that idea? My life-experiences have taught me what doesn’t work, i.e. each time I discovered that a line of pursuit didn’t work I dropped it – a sensibly lived life is a process of diminishing burden, not accumulating it.
RESPONDENT: However, you have to sweep all that load from your brain –
VINEETO: So much for winning any contest and deserving a PhD, hey.
RESPONDENT: – be an innocent child again –
VINEETO: This advice is strangely at odds with something you wrote earlier to Richard –
RESPONDENT: – if you want to enter ‘the kingdom of the heavens’.
VINEETO: You too quickly dismissed something that I wrote in my first letter to you –
To spell it out more clearly – ‘the kingdom of the heavens’ has no existence outside of people’s passionate minds.
RESPONDENT: You must stop putting labels in everything you see.
VINEETO: As I don’t ‘want to enter ‘the kingdom of the heavens’’ I have no use for Jiddu Krishnamurti’s method of denial and dissociation. Besides, it is such a liberation in being able to call a spade a spade and a not man-made, manually-operated, leverage-principled digging machine.
RESPONDENT: You’ll never be able to distinguish the ‘actual’ from falsehood while your eyes have a screen of images.
VINEETO: I wonder why you insist on giving me advice as to how to become enlightened when I have clearly said (twice) that I have moved on. Vis:
Is your oversight maybe due to the fact that you have difficulty in listening to what others are saying because you practice, as you say, ‘me listening to myself; like a mirror’? Re: About Permanency, 29.9.2003
RESPONDENT: Richard is your ‘actual’ hope.
VINEETO: The expression of an actual hope is an oxymoron, evidence that your ‘actual’ clearly means something different than ‘existing in fact as evidenced by the physical senses, in action or existence at this time, existing in act and not merely potentially or apparently.’ Oxford Dictionary. As for hope – I have abandoned hope, faith, belief and trust a long time ago, along with doubt, disbelief, distrust and despair.
This is what actually happened – I was intrigued by Richard’s discovery because I had lost hope in ever finding peace and happiness via spiritual methods. When I applied the actualism method it produced immediate tangible results and repeated success and now I am way past the point of return and the ending of ‘me’ is a sure-fire inevitability. An over-weening confidence based on tangible results and repeated success beats hoping for some future release from the dreary continuum of earthly life hands down.
RESPONDENT: You learned well, if you didn’t sign your email I would believe it was Richard’s.
VINEETO: You must be kidding, Richard’s expressive prose is one of a kind. But if you are talking about the content of the words rather than style, then you will naturally find many similarities between what Richard and I report because we both talk about the same actuality. Besides, the objections you put forward are so one-dimensional that they don’t leave much choice in answering – how many different ways can one point out that an actual freedom from the human condition lies 180 degrees opposite to all spiritual pursuits, Jiddu Krishnamurti’s teachings included?
RESPONDENT: The only difference between you and him is the permanency …
VINEETO: Yes, that’s right.
RESPONDENT: … that you believe he has and you haven’t, of that ‘stunning luminosity and perfection of the actual world in a ‘self’-less experience’.
VINEETO: I don’t need to believe that he is permanently free of the human condition, I know it for a fact. If you would get yourself to read, with both eyes open, what Richard has written in his correspondence with you, on this mailing list and on the website, you also wouldn’t need to believe what he and I are saying, you would know it yourself.
RESPONDENT: How many times a day (week or month) does this experience happen to you,
VINEETO: Often enough not to let me forget the brilliant sparkle and magic coruscation, the innocent purity and vast stillness that is missing once ‘I’ reclaim centre stage.
RESPONDENT: … and what do you think it’s missing for you to live this experience 24 hours a day, 365 days a year?
RESPONDENT: You are right if that state is not staying and the old stuff keeps recurring, you may as well take LSD or any hallucinatory drug.
VINEETO: I don’t know who you are agreeing with – a virtual freedom from malice and sorrow can never be achieved by ‘LSD or any hallucinatory drug’ and becoming virtually free of malice and sorrow is an essential prerequisite to becoming actually free from the human condition.
Your suggestion demonstrates yet again, that you have entered this arena without the necessary preparation.
RESPONDENT: I am not extending this email today because I’d like you to CONCENTRATE ON THIS QUESTION and give me a straightforward answer.
VINEETO: There is no need to capitalize – when I correspond I always do it with full attention.
RESPONDENT: Forget about the ‘the new-gurus-buster’; I am no buster of anything. I was just testing your sense of humour;
VINEETO: It was a joke indeed. In order to bust something you would need to know at least something about what it is you are trying to bust. Coming to an actual freedom mailing list and trying to bust supposed gurus and disciples by using methods copied from a spiritual teacher can be likened to trying to find penguins in Hawaii. Have you considered a career in comedy?
RESPONDENT: hope AF allows humour,
VINEETO: When humour is freed from its malicious and sorrowful components it’s absolutely delightful. Or to put it another way – when one is free of malice and sorrow, being alive is great fun.
RESPONDENT: … or is it to holy already?
VINEETO: What part of the word non-spiritual is it that you do not understand?
There is nothing holy nor sacred nor blessed nor consecrated nor hallowed nor revered nor sacrosanct nor devotional nor sanctified nor divine to be found in actualism. It would make for a far more interesting conversation if you could bring yourself to get off the one-way single-minded spiritual track you are fixated upon and actually take notice of what your correspondents are saying.
RESPONDENT: I am serious when I say I am interested in knowing more about your ‘goods’ [PCE or whatever name you like] …
VINEETO: Let me remind you what you wrote about ‘PCE or whatever name you like’ –
Why should I think you are serious about wanting to know more about something you already claim to know about and have already scorned? You obviously make a distinction between being serious and being sincere.
RESPONDENT: … and the method to get them.
VINEETO: This is what you wrote about ‘method’ only a few days ago –
Why should I think you are serious about wanting to know more about the actualism method when, whilst championing your own method, you have already dismissed any and all methods?
RESPONDENT: I am not kidding.
VINEETO: O.K., ignoring your previous responses and taking your curiosity at face value I suggest going to the map of the Actual Freedom Trust website and clicking on the revolving multicoloured ball. You will then arrive at a page devoted to the topic of how to become free from the human condition, replete with multiple links to correspondences from Richard and practicing actualists.
RESPONDENT: Could you kindly explain to me in simple words? Simplicity is the communication’s key in any type of relationship.
VINEETO: You had a similar request to No 50 –
Actual Freedom is so explicitly simple that most people fail to understand it, and seemingly particularly hard to understand for those trained in Eastern Mysticism. Yet there is one simple key that can open the doors to understanding, and experiencing, all Richard conveys, but most adults have lost touch with it. Unless you rediscover this quality first even ‘simpler, lesser sentences’ won’t do the trick. It goes without saying that sincerity and integrity are prerequisites to rediscovering this magic quality.
Here is another hint – you could begin by contemplating the meaning and the implications of the word ‘non-spiritual’.
RESPONDENT: Suppose I am someone you find on the street, without a computer.
VINEETO: Going by the experience of communicating with you so far I can only assume that if I did meet you ‘on the street’ I wouldn’t have a chance to get a word in edgeways.
RESPONDENT: Even if I had one, you can’t just ask people ‘go read my website and the mailing list’!
VINEETO: Why not? The Actual Freedom Trust website is where anybody who is interested in becoming free of the human condition can find out how to do it for themselves, by themselves.
RESPONDENT: You nuts, do you realize the amount of bla-bla-bla in there?
VINEETO: Ah, so much for ‘I am serious when I say I am interested in knowing more about your ‘goods’ … I am not kidding’. Then again, someone ‘me listening to myself; like a mirror’ is bound to say something like that.
RESPONDENT: Is that the well of knowledge you are so proud of?
VINEETO: No, the Actual Freedom Trust website is a well of experience about how to live in peace and harmony with one’s fellow human beings and I am well-pleased to have contributed.
RESPONDENT: You and I can never meet each other through that gibberish.
RESPONDENT: If your husband or companion asks you ‘Do you still love [or care for] me darling?’
VINEETO: Love has no place in the intimacy we share.
RESPONDENT: Do you reply ‘What I said 3 years ago is as valid today as what I say today’?
VINEETO: It was perfect three years ago and it is perfect today.
RESPONDENT: Always committed to the past! What is freedom then?
VINEETO: As it is your idea that I am committed to the past, your rhetorical question is irrelevant.
Besides, I wonder why you judge my report of how to become virtually free from the human condition, something entirely new to human history, as being ‘too old’, yet you consider Jiddu Krishnamurti’s tried and failed bronze-age Advaita-Hinduism as being relevant today. It’s the second time I am asking this, maybe this time you could be so kind to answer?
RESPONDENT: May silence be with you.
VINEETO: Talking about silence … in your conversation with actualists have you ever, even for a single moment, considered listening to anybody but yourself? I only say this because you have amply demonstrated that your ‘silence’ is full of empty words whereas the vast stillness here in this actual world is unimaginable – it has to be experienced.
RESPONDENT: I am going to travel to the old continent on Monday. I did my bit in this forum, now I bid farewell.
I thank Vineeto and No 23 for their reply. Everything has been said. The only person that is making sense in this group is No 44, who is doing a great effort to show you guys something worth looking at; all others are huge egos dreaming!
RESPONDENT No. 50: HA! That’s amazing how that works!
RICHARD: It is indeed ... and yet so simple too. And, speaking of simplicity, this may be an apt moment to provide the reminder that, by having already established feeling good (a general sense of well-being) as the bottom line for moment-to-moment experiencing then if, or when, feeling happy and harmless fades there is that comfortable baseline from which to suss out where, when, how, why – and what for – the feeling of being happy and harmless ceased happening ... and all the while feeling good whilst going about it.
Furthermore if, or when, there is a sinking below the bottom line, and feeling bad (a general sense of ill-being) is the moment-to-moment experiencing then, rather than trying to suss out where, when, how, why – and what for – the general sense of well-being (feeling good) ceased occurring, it is far more useful to first get to a stage of being neutral, because, when in the feeling bad position, feeling good can appear to be so, so far away ... indeed, at times, feeling good can seem to be but a dream, a fancy, a chimera, a will-o’-the-wisp, from that position, and what’s the point anyway, that method didn’t work either (of course), it’s all stupid, life sucks, and ... and all the rest of those self-pitying, self-justifying, defeatist assertions.
Plus, as already mentioned previously, any analysing and/or psychologising and/or philosophising whilst one is in the grip of debilitating feelings usually does not achieve much (other than spiralling around and around in varying degrees of despair and despondency or whatever) anyway.
Needless is it to add that the step from being neutral to feeling good is not such a big step?
RESPONDENT: Delirium n : a state of excitement and mental confusion often accompanied by hallucinations
Hallucination n : illusory perception; a common symptom of severe mental disorder Source: Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
VINEETO: Ah … actualism is not about silly academic word games, it is a hands-on enterprise. I’m playing for keeps, the real McCoy. Beware, the wide and wondrous path is a one-way street, ‘I’ am instigating my own disappearance for the benefit of this body and that body and everybody.
No wonder, you perceive this as ‘delirium’ and ‘hallucination’. From the perspective of those within the human condition the door to an actual freedom has a warning sign on it which says ‘insanity, do not enter here’.
But once I had seen through and through, over and over, the madness of what is called sanity, this warning no longer holds sway. Funny, today I perceive the instinctual battle between human beings as ‘delirium’ and the search for a spiritual Higher Self as a particularly mesmerising ‘hallucination … a common symptom of severe mental disorder’.
Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.