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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Selected Correspondence Social Identity
SONYA: Didn’t realise how long it has been since I last wrote on here. Lately, I’ve been kinda stuck I guess. These are the things I’ve been really struggling with:
Both of these things means that I am a person that struggles to do things on my own. I never really think that I can do anything on my own. I usually rely on someone else encouraging me or holding my hand through it. For example, I’ve always wanted to start going to heels dance classes. But I couldn’t go on my own, I had to go with a friend. Or learning how to drive a manual car, I needed encouragement from Kuba. I struggle with the initial leap into doing something ‘scary’. It’s funny cause once I’m actually doing ‘it’, it’s never as scary. Now I go to classes on my own (even new ones, I also made new friends!) and I passed my driving test the first time as well as driving to London on my own multiple times. I know logically I have the capacity to do things, I guess I just always seem to want to make sure it’s ‘safe’ to do so first. So, regarding putting in the work in being happy and harmless. I’m really struggling lately to take it a step further. So here is my little tiny step I’m doing on my own so I can go further into this adventure into living what I really want deep down. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, Welcome back to the forum. If your self-respect allows, I would like to make one or two comments on what you wrote. I appears you are making good progress regarding your problem No. 2 and meet your fear of failing head-on – and you are succeeding. It’s really the only way to deal with such fear – look at it without blinking, so to speak, and you notice that its intensity will diminish right away, and then you can proceed to do what you want to do. No. 1 is more complex. First of all, you will perhaps be relieved to learn that every single feeling being deep down feels that there is something wrong with ‘being’ here, with being ‘me’. The reason is that ‘I’ as a feeling being am an impostor, a fraud, an alien entity, having taken charge over your flesh-and-blood body. This feeling of something being wrong with ‘you’ will not disappear except in a PCE or when actually free. What you can do is to diminish the strength and influence of ‘me’ in your daily life by enjoying and appreciating being here and thus reduce the identity-enhancing ‘good’ and ‘bad’ feelings and increase the identity-diminishing happy and harmless feelings. I don’t know how much you read of Richard’s writing, or how much you are interested to read – I can post some quotes here and you let me know if that is explanatory and beneficial for you.
Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: Well, well, I was literally astounded that this was so eye-opening for you. At
first, I thought it was too trite to write it out, it being the actualism method 101. What an effect a choice of a
different expressions can make! Perhaps it has something to do with the serious conditioning of mainly the
male of the species to not show or express fear of any kind – and therefore not to feel fear – whatever the
circumstances. [Emphasis by Kuba]. KUBA: Yes there is something of that kind exactly which I could sum it up with the admonition to – “keep yourself together”. I only have to go back to mine and Sonya’s wedding to demonstrate such a thing. That when the weight of the situation (it being a public event and the rest of it) begins to be felt there is the sense that Sonya could publicly express her potential anxiety or what have you, that perhaps it would even be seen as cute etc And then I as the man feel that I am to “be the rock”, that I must “keep it together”. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Thank you for your long and perspicacious reply. It’s a good way to sum up one of the major social identity rules for a ‘man’ – to “keep it together”, as a provider and protector. Given that this particular conditioning is rooted in the social identity, i.e. the whole image/ persona you have imbibed from childhood onward of ‘who’ you should be, it would make sense to dismantle this identity first. To explain, the social identity is overlaid over the instinctual passions attempting to curb the worst excesses but can be safely dismantled with an active pure intent in place. Even though one can become actually free without having dismantled the whole of one’s social identity – if aspects of it bother you now then now is the time to examine those and may remove a lot of your present ‘jitters’. It will also remove various obstacles/ concerns which you may come across exploring the full range of naiveté and being as close to innocence as a ‘self’ can be. There is a very useful and informative article on “The Formation and Persistence of the
Social Identity” I have also added a section in the “Basic to
Full Freedom” * VINEETO: You said it well – “fear of the jitters” – it is the fear of fear which is the largest aspect of it, and once you allow the feeling itself without feeding it with fear of fear then what remains is mostly small potatoes. KUBA: And this is exactly it, again taking the wedding situation as an example, it is not that there is an issue with fear per se, it is rather that by admitting/ showing/ being seen to be afraid I am “not keeping it together”. VINEETO: Ha, there is a reason why an ongoing excellence experience is called Being-out-from-under-control – the control being determined by your social conditioning. KUBA: This is a pretty fascinating topic actually because I can see this being a very core feature of being a ‘man’, the rock, the protector, the one that has it under control etc. What ‘I’ fear more than fear itself is being publicly known to be afraid. And of course this just becomes a layer cake of fear and anxiety. As Claudiu wrote I do often experience it in the chest region and it seems it is exactly because of it becoming that “layer cake”, that if this fear is allowed then it is experienced in the belly area. But of course considering the kind of conditioning that has been enforced on men through history I can see just how strong this would be. That this would be one of ‘my’ worst fates as a ‘man’ – to publicly be known to be afraid. VINEETO: This is certainly a promising field of investigation, and you will be surprised how freeing it is when the various layers of this conditioning fall by the wayside when you discover how redundant all these aspects of ‘you’, the guardian, really are when pure intent is guiding you. KUBA: Of course it is not to do with publicly showing this or that, as it is about neither expressing nor repressing the fear and ‘being’ that fear without moving in either direction. But the most insidious outcome of this conditioning is that ‘I’ separate ‘myself’ from ‘my’ fear and thus lock it into that “layer cake”. Then ‘I’ can only crank up the aggression on ‘myself’ and fight this fear as if ‘I’ am fighting dragons and various other monsters. And of course in the process ‘I’ become callous, insensitive etc. What a fascinating thing it is to untangle all this, and as Richard said absolutely nothing can be swept under the rug – indeed it will come out sooner or later. So what I can see is that initially this way of dealing with fear is what ‘I’ did to fit into ‘my’ role as a man. But once habituated this became a problem in its own right, because the only thing ‘I’ could ‘do’ with ‘my’ fear was to turn it into a layer cake and then fight with it. VINEETO: It’s great that you see this because now your focus of attention has shifted to where the first problem is, not fear itself but the role you have accepted simply because you were born as a male flesh-and-blood body. KUBA: And this aspect of using aggression to cover up / deal with ‘my’ feelings, this can be observed as a very common coping strategy for men. That to be emotional equals being weak / not keeping it together. Now I am not proposing the opposite of this (which is quite a popular flavour of belief these days) that “true strength lies in vulnerability” etc. This would simply be to move from suppression to expression. VINEETO: It is more about untangling this whole mess and seeing that ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’, that whatever feeling is currently taking place in the affective faculty – ‘I’ am ‘being’ that feeling. And once this is seen (with any feeling whatsoever) it is remarkably freeing. Again, there is a third alternative – look at the specific morals and ethics and beliefs and attitudes and persona you have taken on board with their accompanying beliefs and principles and see if any of them is worth keeping (apart from paying lip service and obeying the laws of the land and social protocols).
KUBA: In fact it is as if now I understand the actualism method fully – In that I know there is not a single feeling that ‘I’ could experience which is not something ‘I’ am at the same time ‘being’. That is to say ‘I’ am no longer afraid of this and that feeling, they are not something coming from ‘out there’ to get ‘me’. And this applies without exception to anything at all that takes place in the affective faculty, which means ‘I’ always have a choice in how ‘I’ am experiencing this moment of being alive. And taking the above into account whilst knowing experientially what is possible for ‘me’ to live, of course it is ‘being’ naïveté that is the optimum manner in which ‘I’ can experience this moment of being alive – there is no reason at all not to live it each moment again. VINEETO: What I am suggesting, when I talk about the beliefs which make up one’s social identity is that when you look at a particular belief/ principle which includes a whole range of associated feelings, then once you are able to see through that particular belief and replace it with the factual evidence that it’s unnecessary, the whole range of associated feelings will also disappear. KUBA: I will just add the below too :
This really hit the nail on the head too, of course I don’t have to find it at all, in the same way I wouldn’t write something like – I can feel good some of the time so I need to find a way to feel good all of the time. It is the same way! If I can get back to feeling good once I can get back to feeling good every time. There is not a separate way for once and another for all of the time. VINEETO: Yes, there is no separate way for any of your feelings, but if they are kept in situ by a feeling-fed thought, i.e. one or more beliefs, then you look at the belief(s) first. You must be delighted to have found more puzzles to solve.
KUBA: What a fascinating experience I just had! I can’t sleep now following it so I thought I might as well write about it. So I was in that half-asleep state in bed about 15min ago and I was enjoying a very fascinating
journey through the psyche. It was as if ‘I’ was taken on a journey through the entirety of ‘my’ life but the
key aspect was that it was clear that ‘I’ have been nothing but a marionette pulled by the strings of
conditioning. It was a very fun journey and ‘I’ was definitely enjoying it in a fascinated way. And so as ‘I’ was moving through the journey ‘I’ eventually got to the very start of it all, the beginning – ‘I’ was astounded to find no-one at all. There was no god, no ‘higher intelligence’, no ultimate meaning etc. What ‘I’ discovered is perfectly described by the words – blind nature. In that indeed the conditioning is pulling on the marionette and yet there is ‘noone’ or ‘nothing’ ‘behind it all’ – it is all simply a set of blind instinctual patterns. Now this might not seem as big as I initially made it out. But the ramifications are huge! It means that there is absolutely no purpose or meaning at all to suffering, it means that all those people who suffered or sacrificed or died for any of the causes which flow from the conditioning – it all happened for absolutely nothing at all. It means that no matter how noble or sophisticated the various belief systems, it is all over absolutely nothing at all. ‘I’ still remember the surprise that ‘I’ experienced, to find ‘noone/ nothing’ at
all ‘behind it all’, simply a set of blind instinctual patterns – of course ‘humanity’ has turned these
into something rather romantic and made a ginormous hoo-ha out of it all, and yet it is all over absolutely nothing,
no meaning or purpose ‘behind it’ at all. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Isn’t this a great discovery! This apperceptive insight lived experientially is the end of believing any and all principles and concepts, axioms and ideals, tenets and illusions (as long as you comply with the legal laws and observe the social protocols). Now there is nothing (credible) in the way to altruistically allow, with supreme confidence, the very core of ‘being’ itself – the selfish instinct for individual survival – to disappear into the same “‘nothing’ ‘behind it all’”. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Yes indeed! And what a contrast I see now, there is ‘me’ who naturally feels/believes to be ultimately precious and intrinsically important and now that very same ‘me’ has been exposed to be nothing but an expression of a blind instinctual pattern. No wonder Geoffrey had such a laugh over all this, all this seriousness, all the sophistication over something that is a piece of crude instinctual programming. I always had various glimpses of this but this time it was seen so clearly, so totally. The instinctual programming was naked and exposed… Seen for the crude and blind pattern that it is. And as such it is worth absolutely nothing, ‘my’ precious is worth absolutely nothing. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Ha, I figured you can now make the connection to Geoffrey’s report. When everything is swept out from under the carpet, there is nothing left to hide, to defend, to hold precious, or to fear. Simply stillness – the stillness of infinite space and eternal time. PS: But isn’t it amazing and miraculous that this “crude and blind pattern” has evolved human being to being sentient, sensible, sensuous, intelligent human beings capable of apperception and thus able to free themselves of the dictates of blind nature’s software and discover the actual world with all its wonders!
KUBA: Ok so got some movement on this front, at least the indignation part for sure. I realised that what is needed is not merely looking at various concepts such as justice or fairness but an altogether different paradigm, the clue being in the word benevolence. Basically it is about stepping out of that old way altogether, of right and wrong, punishment and justice, score-keeping, expectations etc. With benevolence there is no calculation to decide if one is deserving of beneficence, there is only beneficence, rooted in fellowship regard, and this is just a far better way of living, actually it’s very charming. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Indeed. There is an actual benevolence as well as equity and parity, magnanimity and generosity – nothing is missing when any of the rigid real-world principles and virtuous/ sinful concepts are being abandoned (as long as you live by the legal laws and social protocols of the country you are residing in). Besides –
Isn’t it a wonderful and innocuous aim to become free from animosity and anguish –
KUBA: There is some movement on the thrills part too although it is not resolved. My mum the other day told me of some old stories when I was young and I got some new roller blades. I actually skipped school the following day and rode right up to the school entrance during lunchtime to show off. Now she mentioned this story as part of a point she was making that she has always nurtured my individuality. However I see now that what she was actually nurturing was licentiousness. And indeed I have come to associate license with freedom, and freedom to be ‘me’ as ‘I’ am is nothing at all like what the words actual freedom refer to. So it is like I am untangling this slowly, of this weird association where ‘I’ have been habitually giving free reign to self-centred urges and thinking that this means freedom. But the ‘freedom’ of licentiousness is more like anarchy, and this is where the hook is, ‘I’ get to operate without bounds and there is this thrill associated with it. Actually I should probably clarify that my actual behaviour certainly does not verge into anything like anarchy or antisocial behaviour, but that is what the energy of those thrills is all about. VINEETO: Even though you don’t act it out, this is a good insight to never confuse freedom with licentiousness. Anarchy is born of resentment against the restrictions of one’s social identity (and as such merely the other side of the coin), whereas benevolence and magnanimity inherent to the perfection and purity of the infinite universe, experienced as pure intent, allows one to safely dismantle all the rules and concepts of the social identity, one by one. KUBA: It’s funny because yesterday I wrote that I need to decide what I want to do with my life, but the truth of it is that I already know, actually it’s not even an option that it could go any other way than towards the ending of the human condition. But this modus operandi of giving reign to self-centred urges, this is a major stumbling block in that it is impossible to be happy and harmless whilst it remains. In fact, to link it back to benevolence, this is like trying to mix oil and water, to give reign to self-centred urges and to be benevolent is literally 2 different directions. Yesterday as I was working a hen do this really clicked on a deep level, the group had such a
great time that they were naively jumping about and squealing by the end of it all. And it was so lovely to observe
this, but all throughout this particular job I was well aware of how ‘my’ self-centred urges would only dirty this
and so they played no part. When I got back in my car I could really see that these are 2 different directions to
travel now, that if I want to enable more of what I saw during that job then ‘my’ self-centred urges will have to
be left behind. VINEETO: Excellent – now with this unambiguous clarity you can act, i.e. set out to whittle away at the addiction for excitement, thrill and buzz with an ongoing affective attentiveness, whenever and wherever the temptation arises –
It is such an exciting adventure in itself to be a pioneer in pursuing something so new to human consciousness – what other thrill do you need! Cheers Vineeto
CHRONO: Hi Vineeto, VINEETO: What you really mean by “being a ‘man’” is what you consider the role of a man, the social identity aspects that you swallowed hook, line and sinker (like everyone else). And it is well worth looking at these expectations/ obligations enshrined in the human condition what put so much pressure on you. CHRONO: Yes I have seen these expectations/ obligations featured in many aspects of my life. In relation to male friends (primarily), it could be that I must maintain some outward appearance of confidence, being nonplussed, being “skilled”, being of high status, etc. With my partner, it feels like that I must be a place of safety and comfort for her (backed by the feeling of responsibility and seriousness) and that if I don’t then I have failed or am a failure. At work, it feels like I must always be excelling and must always know the answer. It could all come under some guise of being an ‘authority’. If I had to go a little further, I could say that all of that is about projecting power. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Well said. Having recognized this you can now decline “projecting power” and experiment with allowing the naiveté which you talked about in your last message –
VINEETO: While you are doing that you can also pop your head around the corner, so to speak, and recognize that in actuality you are already a man, a male human being, and in actuality this is already perfect. So when ‘I’, the identity, comes back in with all ‘my’ demands how ‘I’ should be, there is a salubrious actual perspective which allows you to look at those ‘problems’ in more naïve way and makes it all much less serious. CHRONO: When I think on this, I can understand it intellectually. But in society it doesn’t seem enough. I think it’s about showing ‘my’ usefulness to society. Otherwise I could be discarded. Which means being ostracized, lonely, punished in some way. Everything that I am being perhaps in this entire journal is being kept in place by this fear of retribution from society and humanity. Perhaps another dare. VINEETO: The dare is to become autonomous, less and less dependant on other people’s opinions and
demands. It happens when you gradually find out that there is something better than having the fickle approval and
praise from your contemporaries. There is an actual world right here, right now, and right under your nose. You may
enjoy this story from Richard * VINEETO: Indeed … you may even discover that behind the idea of a “being a man” needing “‘sexual prowess’” is hidden a yearning for intimacy. After all, a near-actual intimacy is something so new, it has to be lived to be discovered. CHRONO: Yes, this hidden yearning is what I’m currently trying to locate. Which perhaps may only come about if I abandon the sexual drive as well. I am wondering if that drive has any role to play at all in any of this. I sometimes struggle to see how it could not arise at all unless one is already actually free. VINEETO: Not so fast. You cannot abandon the sexual drive – it is an instinctual passion. It will only completely disappear when the whole identity becomes extinct. Any attempt to abandon the sexual drive will necessarily lead to suppression and repression. This is the old way which both Western and Eastern religions promoted for thousands of years, and if you only know a little bit of history you already know where it leads to. What you can do is sincerely examine each of the various aspects of your acquired identity as a man, and if it interferes with being happy and harmless aim for as much naiveté as you dare, which already had such fortuitous outcome. Here is a short excerpt from feeling being ‘Peter’ regarding male identity –
This correspondence may be useful as well –
As you might see, loyalty plays a big part in keeping the social identity in place. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Thank you for sharing the quote, this resentment that I carry though it has a slightly different flavour, or that’s what it looks like to me anyways… It’s like – “meh, everything is stupid”. To give an example, the other day I was excitedly telling Sonya how the cool art pieces she made with her friend look great on the wall, and as I sat back on the sofa to do so I knocked a cup of tea that was on the arm rest, an accident. But I do not leave it as just an accident, rather it was a result of a “stupid system”, and off I went to create a more “efficient system” for the cups to rest on the sofa. Now the sofa has 2 wooden trays fixed to the arm-rest… Although writing this now it’s something like this – I am uncomfortable with the feelings
which arise when an accident happens or a mistake is made and in an attempt to escape those feelings I desperately
try to create these “perfect systems”, it’s like a coping mechanism. Of course this is far from living
naively, and I am not like this all the time but rather when something happens to trigger anxious feelings. Not to
turn this into a therapy session but my mum was indeed severely punishing of mistakes made when we were young. Hmm, I do recall exactly that feeling when the cup fell, it’s the anticipation of punishment and very quickly I flip this around into finding the fault with the set up, and then I can desperately design a system where no fault will ever be made. And after a lifetime of doing this I have now projected that drama onto the world, now “everything is stupid”. But it does all seem to be a rather elaborate scheme to avoid the feeling of blame from another, it’s why I emotionally reacted to Sonya’s post the other day too. It’s like I am allergic to being blamed! That feeling of being blamed carries a promise with it… that something bad is to happen. Aah and now I understand why I have always appreciated talking with you so much Vineeto, it’s
like I said a while back that I know you will never ever ‘bite’. This 'bite’ is terrifying to me it seems. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You are right – men in general tend to want to fix problems often before assessing all the causes, including the feelings which might have caused the problem.
Once you are aware which feeling is causing your feeling bad when ‘accidents’ happen (label it), the next thing is to look for the pattern. The way you describe your symptoms it sounds like it’s time to abandon your internal ‘mother’, in other words, the moral and ethical rules, dogmas and concepts, which she has both inherited and passed onto you. It would also explain what you called being a ‘high achiever’ and perhaps why you have difficulty to both be a friend to yourself and to put everything on a ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis. The resentment is the result of the fact of never, ever being able to be perfect. But wherefrom comes the demand of having to be perfect. And why do you still value this rule/ concept when it keeps making you miserable? Again, it’s to look at both sides of the equation – the bad feelings you don’t like and ‘good’ feelings you want to hang onto. KUBA: Looking at the above I can see that I initially intellectually understood what Richard’s quote was pointing to. Then I first thought that my resentment was unique, but even as I typed out the post it became clear I was describing the same thing. But then the main ingredient was still missing – which is acknowledging the fact that I will
never physically be a child again. Those hurts along with my reactionary responses are echoes from the past, they
have no relevance in my life now other than the one I habitually give them. VINEETO: Indeed, your physical mother will not punish you anymore but you have already internalised her moral and ethical values to the extent of now doing the punishing (blaming) of your own accord. Someone else’s blame is not the original problem, it only aggravates your own pre-existing blame. Blaming the system is a variation on the theme of blaming the fact that humans are born with instinctual passions (the biblical original sin) and therefore can only ever try to be morally good and ethically right but overall are bound to fail whilst being alive – unless/until you cease ‘being’. In the meantime there is a way to by-pass all this serious judgemental business –
Cheers Vineeto
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
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