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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Kuba on Discuss Actualism Forum
KUBA: Wow yes I saw this just a few minutes ago, I was getting ready and looking in the mirror. I saw that where this body exists time has no duration, there is such an incredible safety to this. Whereas where ‘I’ exist, across past, present and future it is so precarious. It was so clear experientially that nothing could ever go wrong where time has no duration and yet intellectually ‘I’ cannot quite wrap ‘my’ mind around why. This is incredible because I could never quite grasp the eternity of time, space was somehow easier to comprehend and I previously glimpsed that the space of this universe is infinite, as in having no edges and no outside. But to comprehend that this moment is eternal, that time has no duration means finding something that exists outside of the real world time span altogether. It does not fit in with any descriptions revolving around the past, present and future because it exists outside of that construct altogether. It is in itself the actuality ascertained apperceptively and it is beyond wonderful! It reminds me of Geoffrey writing that ‘he’ saw the ‘known way’ as the dangerous and the unknown way as safe,
‘I’ am the danger, where ‘I’ exist precariously across past, present and future. This body exists so safely
where time has no duration. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is truly wonderful, “beyond wonderful”. The way feeling being ‘Vineeto’ eventually understood actual time was to compare it to space – an arena, like a large football field, where events happen but the field always remains. Actual time is the arena, events happen and ‘I’, being emotional/ instinctually engaged with the events, take them for time itself. Because ‘I’ do know that this body was born and will die one day, and ‘I’ desperately yearn for permanency, for immortality … ‘I’ am too important to ever not be here. Yet once ‘I’ go in abeyance it is patently obvious that ‘I’ am not the centre around which everything revolves but that there is this wide open actuality, infinite and eternal and utterly still and real-world time has no existence. It is utterly safe and still. KUBA: This is yet another reason why actualism is experiential because all words have been invented by feeling beings and therefore on their own they cannot quite convey actuality, they will simply go around in circles and never reveal the actual nature of this universe. Eternal will be taken to mean a very long lapse of time or infinite a very long stretch of space and yet the actual experience of infinitude is outside of those descriptions. All of those real world descriptions still infer some ultimate movement/distance to time/space. Whereas actual time and space exist within the stillness of infinitude. Even writing the word “within” seems to screw it up As in that stillness is the very infinite
and eternal nature of this universe. VINEETO: Yes, I had the same thought when I read it – the word “within” didn’t seem to be quite right and then your last sentence expressed it exactly. Only someone experiencing (or having experienced) actuality can say this with utter confidence. It is indeed experiential. SCOUT: May I ask – what does this mean? It feels directly in opposition to the Richard
quote you shared in Henry’s thread KUBA (to Scout): I’ll have a go at this in the meantime “You have all the time in the universe” is referring specifically to one’s experience as a flesh and blood body only, one exists where time has no duration. It is impossible to ever ‘run out of time’ as time does not move in actuality. Whereas as an identity ‘I’ am locked out of eternal time and instead ‘I’ exist precariously across the past, present and future. This is where ‘I’ am always managing, anticipating and running out of time. As it is always this moment, this body does not move through time like the identity moves across the past, present and future. Rather this body exists securely in eternal time. In eternal time there is no distance to be travelled between ‘then’ and ‘now’ as the immediate is the ultimate, whereas ‘I’ am forever shifting between these thin slivers of ‘real time’, desperately trying to hold, manage and anticipate each one. I think I have just answered in part my own question – of why is it that where time has no
duration there is such safety. Because all this painful psychological/psychic activity which comes from ‘managing
time’ (whilst being forever locked out of actual time) ceases when one exists in eternal time. Everything is in its
place already as one is not actually going anywhere or coming from somewhere. VINEETO: Yes, one can never run out of time in actuality, it is always now, and I am always here and the universe being perfect and pure everything is already perfect. To answer Scout’s question more in detail, here is a quote from Richard’s journal –
Cheers Vineeto
CLAUDIU: The other thing is I think I figured out a really key part of how to successfully self-immolate. If I approach it as ‘me’ ending, then there comes a point where it just feels impossible to proceed because I have myself firmly in mind and I can’t see what would happen next. So it is a dead end. But if I approach it more as me going “into the universe” or “more in the direction of the universe” (i.e. the one that actually exists) then the path is clear, especially when being receptive and aware of pure intent, the purity comes into perception and there’s a clear experience of getting closer to the actual world — and no limit in sight, just a matter of going further, getting used to it (as in the previous post), then further etc., and seems to be just a matter of doing this until it happens. Delightful questions also start to pop up like “wait actuality is already always here
(experienced as such) so how can I be going ‘into’ that which is already there? Where am I coming from such as to
go ‘into’ that? This place I’m coming from cannot actually exist can it…”, delicious to contemplate and
certainly a good sign in my book! KUBA: Hmm this is interesting because I have also been contemplating on those 2 modes.
One is to set ‘my’ sights on allowing perfection and purity more and more until ‘I’ disappear. I have been leaning towards the second one and it seems you are leaning towards the first one. KUBA: Funnily enough I had this exact thought happen when I had that PCE today. I saw that this body exists where time has no duration and there was this utter safety to this. I thought well why can’t I just remain here when this is all that genuinely exists. And yet this is the point that I am trying to make, that unless ‘I’ make the decision to
disappear completely then there will always be ‘something’ to come back to. KUBA: That is to say there will be an aspect of the unknown, of not being able to possibly go any further. That last bit to be bridged can only be done by ‘my’ extinction. It reminds me of Srinath’s report of becoming free. That he was as if Moses looking at the promised land and yet being forbidden from entry. This is exactly how I find it, that no matter how closely ‘I’ creep up to actuality, ‘I’
am still forbidden entry and this will never change. CLAUDIU: So too similarly with self-immolation — I go towards actuality with the intent of ending ‘me’, that it will be ‘my’ demise, a permanent ending of ‘me’ instead of temporarily. But practically it is a seamless transition between two worlds — brought about by being willing to go into that sweetness / giving myself up for that sweetness (to combine from a few reports of people succeeding). Indeed ‘me’ going into actuality doesn’t make sense. But “going into the direction of
actuality” seems to experientially work. VINEETO: Hi Kuba and Claudiu, What a delightful interaction to read this morning. The way I see it from the observer’s perspective, you both have made the decision to ‘self’-immolate a long time ago, when you both went out from under control. The only decision left, if you have any say in the matter given to have allowed the universe to live you, is *when*. Asking ‘how’ is inviting the ‘doer’ back into the picture and the ‘doer’ has no answers but to whole-heartedly and joyfully acquiesce to the long-awaited blessed oblivion. As Kuba stated, PCEs happen when ‘I’ am naïve enough to allow them to happen, and the same
is the case for ‘self’-immolation. ‘Vineeto’s’ experience was that when ‘she’ determined that now, this
very evening, was the best time because of the circumstances, all that was left ‘to do’ was a gay abandon to have
the time of ‘her’ life in utterly enjoying being here, with fun and frivolity and, of course, the very
appreciation of it all. To explain, you both have already decided *that* it is going to happen, and once you determined *when*, then there is nothing else to do but to party. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO (to Jon): You say that “pure intent is utterly
unhuman” because it is not in your human experience. But the word “intent” in this phrase is
the feeling being’s sincere intent to bring about the purity one has experienced (if you could only remember it) at
least one time in one’s life. The purity is of the actual world, the intent is from the feeling being wanting to
(eventually) live in the actual world. KUBA: Oh wow what a brilliant way to describe it, I now get it completely! That is why pure
intent is one’s active connection to actuality, because it comprises both the ‘human’ aspect which is the
intent and the aspect of purity which is outside of ‘humanity’. And naïveté is where ‘I’ can keep this
connection readily open. VINEETO: Thank you Kuba,
Cheers Vineeto
FELIX: Especially with the burnout it doesn’t even feel like
feelings it feels more like a “state”, and it’s unpleasant. KUBA: When I read this something stood out for me and I wonder if it may be what is happening for you. I remember when I was deep into Vipassana I eventually got to a point where I no longer experienced feelings as affective phenomena but rather only as physical sensations. Initially I thought this was a good sign, some kind of progress towards freedom from them. But later on I realised that it only made things worse, because it cemented the feelings as something that was now unreachable/unchangeable. For how could ‘I’ change a physical symptom, it’s not like ‘I’ can stop feeling pain or tell ‘my’ heart to slow down by choice. Years later when I began applying the actualism method I had to unravel this mess. I remember symptoms of feeling tight, tired, uncomfortable, painful etc. It was like ‘my’ whole body was infused with a disease. I remember experiencing daily these episodes of intense ‘physical discomfort’, later on these turned out to be affectively rooted though. The tip that allowed me to deal with this thing was Claudiu encouraging me to find the ‘affective flavour’ of the feeling. That instead of seeing only the physical symptom I could ‘taste’ that unique flavour of the emotion that was behind it (even though at the beginning it seemed the emotion was not there). What I did was develop the willingness to ‘taste’ and then fully ‘live’ the emotions which were at the root of this ‘physical discomfort’. It took a while of consistently chipping away like this (at times this
was quite intense too) but eventually they disappeared completely and same for any symptoms of burn out like constant
tiredness, feeling painful, tight etc. Hi Kuba, What a fascinating story and a brilliant description of it! It strongly reminds me of Richard’s article about ‘Dissociation and Trauma’
Your description added another aspect to it – with deliberate dissociation (Eastern spiritual meditation) one creates a traumatic state which is very hard to escape from, once the dissociation has been successful. This is one of the awful side-effects of Eastern spirituality. I remember Claudiu talking about how difficult it was to extract himself from the effects of intensely practicing Dharma Overground meditation. Nobody who is promoting this stuff ever thinks of the consequences and ramifications their ‘good deed’ inflict on people. Thank you for providing this report how you reversed the detrimental side-effects of such spiritual practice … and now demonstrate the experiential success of the Third Alternative. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: It seems like the choice at this point is as Vineeto mentioned I find that if I bring this to my consciousness, that I will do it/it will happen now, things immediately start to change, like I am then on track towards my destiny and anything else is detracting from that. When I am on track towards my destiny I can see that there is indeed incentive in doing it, like
the universe has truly “sweetened the pot”. That it is a big sacrifice but the incentive is far bigger,
like a sweet song of impending oblivion. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Time to put on my dancing shoes, hey? Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Reading all these quotes it’s fascinating that I can relate to all that is being
described experientially like never before, which means I am on the launchpad, just need to press the button for take
off. However as per the quote that Vineeto sent :
[emphasis added]. 
(Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 94a, 30 December 2005)
The funny thing is that this – “they will not know what that is until it happens – and
when they do know what to do it will be too late to stop the happening” is exactly what happened in the dreams! Lately the way I am seeing the human condition is like I as this body have been here all along and ‘I’ only imagined/believed that ‘I’ existed. Which is very bizarre because ‘I’ must self immolate and at times ‘I’ can feel like ‘I’ weigh a tonne, and yet those other times ‘my’ existential status is so very flimsy that really it never had any substance to being with. So looking from one side it is so very difficult for ‘me’ and then from the other side it’s like it’s all over nothing. Also from one side ‘I’ am giving up everything and from the other side there is nothing there of substance to give up other than an illusion, which by it’s very definition has no substance!
KUBA: I didn’t reply to this, not because I disregard the message, rather it seems the only way I can reply with integrity and appreciation is by action, and there is only 1 action left now! It’s becoming quite a fascinating/ exhilarating thing to look for, this button that exists
within ‘me’. And to know that once found ‘I’ will have already pressed it. I am certain this button exists,
just waiting to be pressed. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I didn’t expect a reply but I was skipping from the back deck to the kitchen (which is not very far) when I had read you previous post. It is such a delicious joy to read your posts and those of all the others who report success and getting closer and closer to their destiny – my appreciation for this happening right in front my eyes is immense. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Wow indeed, contemplating your post has put ‘me’ in dangerous territory, dangerous for ‘me’. IAN: Part of the illusion is the feeling that there is a tie or anchor or root or a binding
structure that keeps it there. KUBA: ‘I’ anchor ‘myself’, there is actually nothing substantial anchoring ‘me’ other than ‘myself’. This pin that keeps ‘me’ in place can be pulled out so that ‘I’ unravel. It seems such a little thing to do and yet the implications are scary. Scary not in the sense that there is any genuine danger but rather because of the magnitude of the shift, of the fact that all of ‘me’ disappears, and then there is nothing but that magical perfection and purity welling up in all directions. It’s like am I ready to be this very magical perfection and purity experiencing itself as a flesh and blood body, that is rather extreme! Not that it makes ‘me’ stop in ‘my’ tracks, in fact ‘I’ know this is exactly where ‘I’ am to proceed. But apprehending oblivion and also the magnitude of what lies after ‘my’ annihilation is daunting and alluring at the same time. […] It’s like things would shift from ‘me’ existing as this tiny ‘I’ and instead this body would be the very infinite and eternal universe experiencing itself, that is such a huge shift. Then there could not be any boundaries between this body and the rest of infinitude, the perfection and purity which wells up in all directions could not be contained into a neat box or somehow hidden from. Perhaps this is exactly what happens with the newly free state. 
VINEETO: Hi Kuba, When you say: “But apprehending oblivion and also the magnitude of what lies after ‘my’ annihilation is daunting and alluring at the same time” – I can understand the first part of the sentence but that you have a “daunting” “apprehending of what lies after ‘my’ annihilation” is really not ‘your’ concern. ‘You’ are arrogating …um… ‘responsibility’ for something which is clearly outside ‘your’ domain. I won’t divulge how you already know where the pin is, it might be too thrilling … ⁽*⁾ Ah, life is such a magnificent adventure! Cheers Vineeto ⁽*⁾
KUBA: The other side of this experience is that I can see that the universe will not force me to be happy and harmless or to self-immolate within this lifetime, infinitude is already complete and so it is in no rush in that sense, ultimately it is completely down to me. Furthermore I can see that the universe is not ultimately concerned with individual life, again because of it’s absoluteness as per the previous posts, so there is no guarantees for this flesh and blood body made by the universe, the universe is too grand to have to play these kind of games. In the past I saw this as a sign of a malevolent universe, “why doesn’t it care about ‘me’?” But this line of reasoning only applies as long as ‘selves’ are in existence, because ‘we’ are separated from infinitude, we are these contingent little bubbles. The suffering caused by ‘being’ a ‘self’ is because of ‘my’ contingent nature. ‘I’ look at the infinite and eternal universe as if it is a bully, it does not care about the things that ‘I’ do, it does not play the games that ‘I’ am invested in. But this is not due to malevolence but rather the fact that infinitude simply has no need for these games, it is far too grand for that. It’s fascinating that all these facts of life are ‘baked into’ perfection, as in
it could not be any other way. Only an infinite and eternal universe can be perfect (without compare) and the rest of
the above simply flows from this. If ‘I’ was to demand the universe to change in line with ‘my’ needs then it
would no longer be perfect, it would be a contingent universe, a desperate universe, it would be just like ‘me’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You are right, one can’t give the universe anthropomorphic qualities, such as caring for me or not, and your ultimate conclusion is spot on. It is brilliant reasoning – if the universe would cater to ‘me’ it would no longer be perfect. And that also beats any interfering/ obliging god by a country-mile. This very insight/ observation is the end of any possible resentment. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So sitting out in the garden having a cigarette just now it clicked that ‘I’ cannot self immolate ‘myself’, I can see this clearly that it would mean that ‘I’ remain by the end. I saw this when ‘I’ thought let ‘me’ just try really hard to self-immolate now, like ‘I’ would be the agent doing the self-immolating with great effort and of course it immediately became clear that this is a dead end. It’s like ‘I’ would be the one shifting this heavy load that is ‘myself’ but then of course ‘I’ would remain. It would literally be a case of ‘me’ trying to lift ‘myself’ up by ‘my’ bootstraps. I can see how this kind of ‘trying hard’ (as if ‘I’ am lifting a heavy load that is ‘me’) cannot work and in fact it could lead to actuality mimicking ASCs. In a way that is good news though! To see that ‘I’ could not possibly do it means that ‘I’ don’t have to worry about that. I am reminded of Claudiu writing prior to stepping out from control that “allowing
it is not a lacklustre approach” So ‘I’ can channel all ‘my’ affective passionate energy towards agreeing to get out of the way permanently. It is not about channelling all that energy towards ‘me’ becoming as if a prime mover to self immolation happening. ‘I’ can channel all of ‘myself’ towards allowing ‘my’ own ending, the doing of it is not for ‘me’ to worry about. Since that experience VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is such an enjoyable post I can’t help replying. Since you have seen that ‘you’ cannot immolate ‘your’ self and also because you and Claudiu were wondering how it will be after it happens, I just found the perfect quotes earlier today for both questions –
It looks like with all those wonderful excellence experiences and PCEs you are indeed acclimatising yourself. And you will find that you already know, have always known, the actuality of an actual freedom –
KUBA: Initially when I saw that the universe will not force ‘me’ to self-immolate as it
is already complete, ‘I’ thought well then why do it? Like if things are already perfect then does it really
matter? And ultimately for the universe it does not matter, which is why one does it for this body, that body and
everybody. It is still quite weird though because those bodies are ultimately no different than the universe itself
and yet they are capable of experiencing the meaning of life, that is what is ultimately at stake. That “invitation to paradise So then I was thinking, coming so far out from ‘humanity’, is the motivation to allow self-immolation going to come from this side (actuality) or from the other side (‘humanity’). It’s like the ‘humanity’ side is a place of utter desperation and the actuality side is a place of magical perfection and purity. I am not sure if it can come from the ‘humanity’ side because ‘humanity’ will be left behind ‘back there’ along with ‘me’. ‘They’ will not be saved when ‘I’ self immolate, in fact ‘they’ will be left in progressively dwindling numbers, huddling in desperation. Ha so just like the universe is seen to be an uncaring bully by those looking from within the
human condition, to abandon ‘humanity’ and proceed to paradise will equally be seen as a betrayal. VINEETO: You will certainly have to consider yourself a traitor to humanity, but don’t worry, nobody will notice. Feeling beings have the uncanny ability of automorphism to fill the gaps where you don’t provide the psychic and affective requirements to be recognized as one of them. Animals will notice, though, they are neither afraid nor attracted because of the missing vibes. Your question regarding where the motivation comes from is answered here “An actual freedom happens of itself only when one is fully ready, and not before.” ‘You’ are motivated to get “fully ready” then “an actual freedom happens of itself”. As for “the universe doesn’t ultimately have anything at stake here” – that
is for you to discover experientially when you are the universe experiencing itself as a flesh-and-blood body sans
identity. I see that you answered your question already in your next post Ah, it is such fun. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: … although it wasn’t an anxiety for
me it was more like being faced with just how meaningless ‘my’ life is. Of the fact that ‘I’ will dissolve and
would have ultimately meant nothing. It was like ‘I’ couldn’t turn in any way to avoid this seeing, eventually
‘I’ simply allowed it to do it’s thing. It was like acclimatising ‘myself’ to being/always having been
redundant. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, It looks like you looking on the not-so-bright side just now. You forget that when it’s ‘done’ it was ‘you’ and only ‘you’ who did it, so that your body and the people around you can have a ball. And one can still count the pioneers on two hands. So, stop complaining ! :) Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: What the universe is is perfection and purity but this perfection and purity can only “do human things” as a human being. So this is what is at stake, not the universe itself, that’s like trying to save a rock. It is the fact that as a human being this perfection and purity can be aware of itself, this is what is so very precious, this is what is at stake and this is unique to human beings only. So although as a flesh and blood body I am this very universe there is something unique there, in
that only as a flesh and blood body is the universe aware of itself! VINEETO: Yes. “What is at stake” here is the universe being able to be apperceptively aware of its own infinitude as unmediated human consciousness, and this is truly wonderful. Here is my favourite piece of Richard’s Journal, I just couldn’t resist to post it again – it bring tears of appreciation to my eyes each time I read it –
* CLAUDIU: It does seem like the key at this final stage is sensuousness. I reread Geoffrey’s report A naive sensuousness is what led to my rock solid PCE that removed any remaining doubts. Sensuousness is the “thing to do” with all my freed up energy. Sensuousness is the gateway into actuality. Sensuousness points and orients me to the actual world. I don’t have to worry or fret about self-immolating or “making progress”. Instead I can be carefree, assured it will happen, so long as I do my part which is revelling and delighting in sensuousness! But I don’t have to do anything other than that, is the point. I don’t have to worry about it, the universe will do it. It doesn’t mean I can ‘relax’ as in going back to my old ways. That takes me further away.
But I can go forward via sensuousness.
– I don’t know precisely the mechanism of how I will self-immolate but I am
really pretty sure that sensuousness will lead to it happening! KUBA: Hehe yes that seems a good idea, ‘I’ instead decided to mourn ‘my’ meaningless
existence. VINEETO: “meaningless existence”, my foot! lol. Cheers Vineeto
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