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Please note that the reports and correspondence below were compiled by Claudiu
while he was living an out-from-under-control virtual freedom.
Editor’s note: to properly set the stage,
the first entries presented here are those shortly preceding the onset of
an out-from-control virtual freedom.
claudiu:
There is an extremely fine and high-quality purity appreciation that I am able to find, allow and increase. It is present now even ‘under’ or beneath what ‘I’ feel to be ‘my’ center.
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, 10 June 2024
claudiu:
Delightfully, a magical mirificence is readily available whenever I allow it.
The key now seems to be to latch onto it 24/7, each waking moment even when talking with people or thinking upon matters. This way it’s uninterrupted.
It seems odd to do at first, like it would interfere with the doing of said things … but the talking happens nevertheless and perfectly well too. But in a different way, less ‘me’ talking and more the talking happening.
This then may be the key to be fully out from under control?
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, 11 June 2024
claudiu:
What is needed to take the final step?
A few days ago it happened not once but twice on that same day that my experience of the fine and ambrosial appreciation increased and somehow ‘my’ being began to warp and/or pulsate along with it. There was a very distinct understanding that this could be it (ie self-immolation), but I pulled back!
I pull back every time — I suppose that’s the nature of it, every time but the last time one will pull back. What is needed to proceed though?
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, 14 June 2024
Excerpts of All-pervading Sweetness
claudiu:
It was a delight for me to read Vineeto’s “Excerpts of All-pervading Sweetness”, which she published specifically for:
For all those who experience an increased outpouring and/or embracing
and appreciation of the purity and overarching benignity of the infinite universe
(pure intent) and wonder where it might lead to
claudiu:
Link:
After reading them, I tentatively answer my
question of “What is needed to proceed though? ”
With the answer: find the thread to and allow that “all-pervading sweetness”, then, knowing it will lead to my demise, continue to allow it, more and more, to fill me fuller and further until that seamless transition between two worlds occurs once and for all!
Claudiu, DAO: 14 June 2024
Today was an odd day – the level of appreciation and purity I experienced has been less than other days and my experience has been at times more like how ‘I’ would normally be. However this came with the sincerity of seeing that ‘I’ really do have to actually give ‘myself’ up for this to happen. Ceasing to be me is exactly what self-immolation is. As I write this now I can say I have no doubts that this is sincerely what I want to do.
vineeto:
I can understand that the level of appreciation and purity waxes and wanes, as if ‘you’ want to return to the default position of feeling neutral as described in Richard’s copied article
from Sonja Lyubomirsky I do appreciate your sincerity, it makes it so much easier.
The only way to counteract this falling back will be if you make the deliberate decision, when feeling excellent and experiencing pure intent comes along, to commit to living out-from-under-control from then onwards. When ‘Vineeto’ got out-from-under-control after many ‘ums and ahs’ it was delicious but a few days later ‘she’ fell out of it and accepted this as a matter of course. But Richard didn’t. When ‘she’ told him about it, he said jokingly something to the effect of “stand in the corner until you are back into out-from-under-control”!
So post-haste ‘Vineeto’ invited Peter into the bedroom and after some delicious intimacy soon was back where ‘she’ had been, and then was more watchful and determined to in fact stay out-from-under-control. It worked. It does need your active and decisive input – until an actual freedom happens, then you can’t fall back.
I will also comment on the question you sent to the forum last night (my time), perhaps you find it useful.
What is needed to take the final step?
A few days ago it happened not once but twice on that same day that my experience of the fine and ambrosial appreciation increased and somehow ‘my’ being began to warp and/or pulsate along with it. There was a very distinct understanding that this could be it (ie self-immolation), but I pulled back!
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, 14 June 2024
vineeto:
Ha, I remember well when that happened the first time, at Richard’s kitchen table :)). You have been fatally attracted for a long time.
I think my first paragraph goes some way to answer that question – taking it step by step will be helpful, notching it up a gear (out-from-control) rather than taking the full jump approach. I just revisited Richard’s correspondence with on the difference between an EE and being out-from-control from August 15 2016 – in other words -
The vital distinction is the overarching benignity and benevolence inherent to infinitude – which has nothing to do with any affective felicity and innocuity – being dynamically
operative due to the *cheerful and thus willing concurrence* of the beer. {emphasis added}
Richard, List D, Claudiu, 15 August 2016
I pull back every time — I suppose that’s the nature of it, every time but the last time one will pull back. What is needed to proceed though?
vineeto:
Each time this pulling back happens, take note what the objection/fear is this time, it may be a different one each time. “Pushing” will not help and only gets ‘your’ heckles up – you can be very gentle and simply be pulled forward by the
experienced “fine and ambrosial appreciation” and overarching benignity of the universe.
Become more and more friends with ‘me’ in that ‘I’ agree on more and more points that ‘I’ am indeed redundant to the stage where ‘I’ joyously acquiesce to lay down ‘my’ burden (it is indeed experienced as a burden) and fulfil ‘my’ deep-down yearning to finally go into oblivion.
When there is no objection left there is only joyous anticipation and no fear at all.
All my blessings for your daring and adventurous endeavour to reach your destiny. Such a wonderful and pregnant time.
Vineeto
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, “That all-pervading sweetness”, 15 June 2024
After reading them, I tentatively answer my
question of “What is needed to proceed though? ”
With the answer: find the thread to and allow that “all-pervading sweetness”, then, knowing it will lead to my demise, continue to allow it, more and more, to fill me fuller and further until that seamless transition between
two worlds occurs once and for all!
Claudiu, DAO: 14 June 2024
vineeto [12:16 PM]:
I just re-read your entry on the Discuss Actualism Forum answering your own question and YES!, that’s it. That is what Vineeto did (despite the interruption by ‘her’ mutiny) – following the overwhelming sweetness and tenderness all the way to ‘her’ manumission.
In deep wonder about the magicality of the working of the actual world.
Yes! After I wrote it I went on a plane (travelling to Romania) and it became clear that the key is to go absolutely all out, put all efforts into doing this / allowing it to happen — which is done not by ‘pushing’ but by allowing that ambrosial sweetness !!
The mistake I made that got me to normal was in thinking I have to not put effort into it at all but “let it happen” — however such a backseat approach doesn’t deliver the goods.
The latter part of the plane ride I experienced a heightened magical sweetness that was more than at any other point in my life. I recognize it is of the same exact quality as I saw in your and Richard’s living room many years ago, but much more stable now as I didn’t pull back so quickly this time.
I take your last email under good advisement though, committing to that level of active engagement is a sensible next step rather than trying to self immolate and then letting my efforts falter when not immediately successful.
vineeto [2:07 PM]:
Indeed, pushing indicates that you expect resistance whereas allowing it to happen is the growing confidence that there might not be any resistance left …
It’s fascinating to read that your “heightened magical sweetness” as of the “same exact quality” that you saw in Richard’s and my living room many years ago, I don’t remember that you mentioned that sweetness when you were visiting.
It seems like you have a firm handle on your destiny and how to go about it.
I am well pleased, utterly delighted in fact.
Have a safe and most enjoyable journey.
Vineeto
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, “That all-pervading sweetness”, 15 June 2024
Claudiu: Got into a bit of a rut, and I was able to work my way out of it in a remarkably straightforward manner:
- I decided I had had enough of continuing down that path
- I saw that that was entirely sensible and possible thing to do – to have enough of it and
choose to do something else instead
- I re-read some of the recent correspondences to bring back that flavor of ambrosial sweetness
that has become so easily accessible
- And now I am back on track!
Editor’s note: On 14 June 2024, Vineeto published “Excerpts of All-pervading Sweetness”, specifically
for the benefit of “all those who experience an increased outpouring and/or embracing
and appreciation of the purity and overarching benignity of the infinite universe
(pure intent) and wonder where it might lead to”.
These can be accessed here:
For context about the surrounding events, as well as personal reports of those experiencing
said increased outpouring and/or embracing and appreciation of the purity and overarching benignity of the infinite universe,
see:
as well as: .
With the coming back on track was a remarkable appreciation of the simplicity and facticity of the actualist
approach to being alive. I saw that I had been going down a path of dissatisfaction and discontent with life,
and that this was simply not factual. It was exactly a choice of how to relate to life.
I saw with such a stark contrast how different
actualism
is to “positive thinking”. The positive thinking
approach is basically to ignore how you really feel about any given situation, not look into it at all,
and instead paste over a faux optimism on top, with platitudes and such.
With actualism, you look at that very core thing itself, how you feel about the situation, and then you see
that one doesn’t have to feel that way about it, whatever the facts of the situation are, it is silly to
let it take away from one’s enjoyment of being
alive.
The fact of being alive itself is endlessly enjoyable
and appreciable, regardless what may be occurring, and one can always be enjoying and appreciating of
that fact.
When I put the insight into words it ends up coming out like nothing new or special than what has been
written before – and I suppose it isn’t, this indeed is not the first time I am writing this. I think
I haven’t conveyed the simplicity of seeing this and how wondrous it is to be able to appreciate that
simplicity.
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #155
“Allowing it to Happen” is not a Back-seat Approach
claudiu:
On June 13th I wrote to Vineeto:
Today was an odd day – the level of appreciation and purity I experienced has been less than other days and my experience has been at times more like how ‘I’ would normally be. However this came with the sincerity of seeing that ‘I’ really do have to actually give ‘myself’ up for this to happen. Ceasing to be me is exactly what self-immolation is. As I write this now I can say I have no doubts that this is sincerely what I want to do.
claudiu:
Soon after, Vineeto published the
Excerpts of All-pervading Sweetness,
and as I read them on June 14th I experienced again the ambrosial magicality – and then I saw where I had been going wrong!
As I wrote on that post:
After reading them, I tentatively answer my
question of “What is needed to proceed though? ”
With the answer: find the thread to and allow that “all-pervading sweetness”, then, knowing it will lead to my demise, continue to allow it, more and more, to fill me fuller and further until that seamless transition between two worlds occurs once and for all!
claudiu:
Vineeto’s response to this on June 15 was:
I just re-read your entry on the Discuss Actualism Forum answering your own question and YES!, that’s it. That is what Vineeto did (despite the interruption by ‘her’ mutiny) — folling the overwhelming sweetness and tenderness all the way to ‘her’ manumission.
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, 15 June 2024
claudiu:
My response to her response was:
Yes! After I wrote it I went on a plane (traveling to Romania) and it became clear that the key is to go absolutely all out , put all efforts into doing this / allowing it to happen — which is done not by ‘pushing’ but by allowing that ambrosial sweetness !!
The mistake I made that got me to normal was in thinking I have to not put effort into it at all but “let it happen” — however such a backseat approach doesn’t deliver the goods
The latter part of the plane ride I experienced a heightened magical sweetness that was more than at any other point in my life. I recognize it is of the same exact quality as I saw in your and Richard’s living room many years ago, but much more stable now as I didn’t pull back so quickly this time ?
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, 15 June 2024
claudiu:
To re-iterate then, the issue I had made is that I started feeling that the only “sincere” [sic!] thing to do is to not put any effort or engagement or energy at all into becoming free, that any sort of energy put into it would be “insincere” [sic!] somehow, and that the only thing to do was to “naturally” allow ‘myself’ to gravitate back to feeling good or going towards the magicality etc – in other words, a back-seat approach.
However that quickly resulted in me getting further away from that magical way of being, and in hindsight it is obvious why. The point is that yes, you must indeed put all energy possible into this! The key is that a “pushing” type of energy is not what will deliver the goods, but an active engagement, committment, and going all-out, is absolutely what is required, and it appears to be what brings me to experiencing that tintling appreciation and allows it to continue and flourish.
The following that Vineeto wrote to me on June 15th, after receiving my “odd day” email, also serves as corroboration for the above:
I can understand that the level of appreciation and purity waxes and wanes, as if ‘you’ want to return to the default position of feeling neutral
as described in Richard’s copied article from Sonja Lyubomirsky.
I do appreciate your sincerity, it makes it so much easier.
The only way to counteract this falling back will be if you make the deliberate decision, when feeling excellent and experiencing pure intent comes along, to commit to living out-from-under-control from then onwards. When ‘Vineeto’ got out-from-under-control after many ‘ums and ahs’ it was delicious but a few days later ‘she’ fell out of it and accepted this as a matter of course. But Richard didn’t. When ‘she’ told him about it, he said jokingly something to the effect of “stand in the corner until you are back into out-from-under-control”!
So post-haste ‘Vineeto’ invited Peter into the bedroom and after some delicious intimacy soon was back where ‘she’ had been, and then was more watchful and determined to in fact stay out-from-under-control. It worked. It does need your active and decisive input — until an actual freedom happens, then you can’t fall back.
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, 15 June 2024
claudiu:
I particularly appreciated reading this part as it shows that what the forum-goers are experiencing now appears to be par for the course!
When ‘Vineeto’ got out-from-under-control after many ‘ums and ahs’ it was delicious but a few days later ‘she’ fell out of it and accepted this as a matter of course. But Richard didn’t. When ‘she’ told him about it, he said jokingly something to the effect of “stand in the corner until you are back into out-from-under-control”!
claudiu:
She also wrote the following to re-iterate her advice which is that as a next step or ‘gear’, to commit to being out-from-control – which I now understand to be to *no longer fall below the baseline* of *actively experiencing* and *engagedly allowing* that *ambrosial magicality* to become *increasingly apparent* – rather than attempting to self-immolate directly:
I will also comment on the question you sent to the forum last night (my time), perhaps you find it useful.
What is needed to take the final step?
A few days ago it happened not once but twice on that same day that my experience of the fine and ambrosial appreciation increased and somehow ‘my’ being began to warp and/or pulsate along with it. There was a very distinct understanding that this could be it (ie self-immolation), but I pulled back!
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu's Journal #149, 14 June 2024
Ha, I remember well when that happened the first time, at Richard’s kitchen table :)). You have been fatally attracted for a long time.
I think my first paragraph goes some way to answer that question — taking it step by step will be helpful, notching it up a gear (out-from-control) rather than taking the full jump approach. I just revisited Richard’s correspondence with on the difference between an EE and being
out-from-control from August 15
2016. in other words –
The vital distinction is the overarching benignity and benevolence inherent to infinitude – which has nothing to do with any affective felicity and innocuity – being dynamically operative due to the *cheerful and thus willing concurrence* of the beer. [emphasis added].
I pull back every time — I suppose that’s the nature of it, every time but the last time one will pull back. What is needed to proceed though?
Each time this pulling back happens, take note what the objection/fear is this time, it may be a different one each time. “Pushing” will not help and only gets ‘your’ heckles up — you can be very gentle and simply be pulled forward by the experienced “ambrosial appreciation” and overarching benignity of the universe.
Become more and more friends with ‘me’ in that ‘I’ agree on more and more points that ‘I’ am indeed redundant to the stage where ‘I’ joyously acquiesce to lay down ‘my’ burden (it is indeed experienced as a burden) and fullfill ‘my’ deep-down yearning to finally go into oblivion.
When there is no objection left there is only joyous anticipation and no fear at all.
Claudiu, DAO: 20 June 2024
Claudiu: A family member has begotten an offspring a few years back, and I met them for the first time today.
Walking around a bit later, I marvelled at the wondrous complexity of the universe we find ourself in. This small creature was amazingly alive, curious,
engaged, intelligent, absorbing of all around them – a wondrous bundle of immeasurable complexity, alive and aware of being alive, and joyously living and
enjoying the process of learning how to take advantage of the propitious circumstance they find themselves in of being alive on this lustrously verdant and
bountiful planet.
And whence came this miracle? Out of nothing more than the vegetables, eggs, meat, and other foodstuffs eaten, water drank, air breathed, and sunlight
absorbed by their two progenitors, who effortlessly imbibed it all, the male using it to generate spermatozoa, the female using it to develop her
already-existing ovums, which on one destinal day fortuitously joined to form this new organism.
What a marvellous universe we live in indeed!
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #157, 20 June 2024
Claudiu: The purity of the actual universe is truly
mirificent. At the time many years ago in Richard’s living room/kitchen, I
experienced it as an unimaginable purity and richness.
When I experienced the ambrosial magicality on the plane ride many days ago, with its quality of immaculate sweetness, I could see
experientially that it was the same thing I was experiencing despite all the intervening years — merely much more stable and with an expanded appreciation
of it together with a more refined vocabulary with which to voice it!
I experienced it in a new way a few days ago at a restaurant after consciously again deciding to put all my energy into allowing the purity as much as
possible — it was like a potent and tangible refreshing/cooling breeze, a substantial stream of purity that flowed into my consciousness, clarifying
and rendering pure everywhere it flowed.
The key now seems consistency — consistently, constantly and continuously apply the appropriate amount of (maximal) energy and commitment to allow
this purity to become apparent as much as possible, and genuinely and sincerely engage with any objections or resistance as they arise!
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #159, 23 June 2024
Editor’s note: Claudiu’s personal report of this
experience, which happened in April 2012, is available here: .
Editor’s note: the following message was written shortly after an out-from-control virtual freedom began to
eventuate for Claudiu.
There is just this big ‘why not’ in front of me now, and I can’t really come up with a single
reason why not. Perhaps something along the lines of ‘it’s too good to be true’, some
version of ‘I don’t deserve it’. But it’s not just for me,
it’s for all of mankind.
Kub933, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #161
Editor’s note: For Kuba’s reports on being out-from-control,
see: .
For Vineeto’s correspondence with Kuba,
see: .
Claudiu: There must be some specific objection, else it would have happened by now — it’s just a matter of patiently finding it !
On the plane ride I just got off of today, I was able to see that it’s a fact that it’s not really up to me how things go or turn out in the universe.
I have some degree of influence but ultimately the universe will do what it does. That is, as a fact I’m not really in control anyway!
Allowing myself to see and accept and appreciate this, has led to me being able to let go of the controls, as I wasn’t in control anyway. If I’m not
wrong then I’m now experiencing out-from-control virtual freedom proper. After a bumpy takeoff (metaphorically for me, not literally
for the plane ),
I am delighting in and increasingly enjoying that agency is now in the hands of the universe and not of ‘me’ anymore.
We shall see how it goes
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #162
Vineeto: Dear Claudiu,
On the plane ride I just got off of today, I was able to see that it’s a fact that it’s not really up to me how things go or turn out in the universe.
I have some degree of influence but ultimately the universe will do what it does. That is, as a fact I’m not really in control anyway!
Allowing myself to see and accept and appreciate this, has led to me being able to let go of the controls, as I wasn’t in control anyway. If I’m not
wrong then I’m now experiencing out-from-control virtual freedom proper. After a bumpy takeoff (metaphorically for me,
not literally for the plane ), I am delighting in and increasingly enjoying that agency is now in the hands
of the universe and not of ‘me’ anymore. We shall see how it goes.
Vineeto: Just magnificent. Reading this I had tears of immense joy and appreciation in my eyes.
And you are an ongoing inspiration for everyone on the forum, it is palpable and truly wonderful.
Yes, you are “now experiencing out-from-control virtual freedom proper” –
don’t let it slip away,
it is too precious to allow
“blind-nature’s default set-point”
to interfere at any time.
What a mirificent event heralding that ‘your’ days are numbered :))))
[…]
The purity of the actual universe is truly mirificent. At the time many years ago in Richard’s living room/kitchen, I experienced it as an
unimaginable purity and richness. When I experienced the ambrosial magicality on the plane ride many days ago, with its quality of immaculate sweetness,
I could see experientially that it was the same thing I was experiencing despite all the intervening years — merely much more stable and with an expanded
appreciation of it together with a more refined vocabulary with which to voice it!
I experienced it in a new way a few days ago at a restaurant after consciously again deciding to put all my energy into allowing the purity as much as
possible — it was like a potent and tangible refreshing/cooling breeze, a substantial stream of purity that flowed into my consciousness, clarifying and
rendering pure everywhere it flowed.
The key now seems consistency — consistently, constantly and continuously apply the appropriate amount of (maximal) energy and commitment to allow
this purity to become apparent as much as possible, and genuinely and sincerely engage with any objections or resistance as they arise!
Vineeto: I read this with joy and great admiration not only about the
mirificence you are experiencing but also how your writing skills are
getting better every day you post something on the forum.
If you have any idea or plans to publish some of it in a newly to be set-up section on the AFT website I am all open for it.
[…]
Again, congratulations for publicly acknowledging that you are now in a different way of being virtual freedom.
Big hug and all smiles
Vineeto
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, 24 June 2024
Claudiu:
Dear Vineeto,
On the plane ride I just got off of today, I was able to see that it’s a fact that it’s not really up to me how things go or turn out in the universe.
I have some degree of influence but ultimately the universe will do what it does. That is, as a fact I’m not really in control anyway!
Allowing myself to see and accept and appreciate this, has led to me being able to let go of the controls, as I wasn’t in control anyway. If I’m not
wrong then I’m now experiencing out-from-control virtual freedom proper. After a bumpy takeoff (metaphorically for me,
not literally for the plane ), I am delighting in and increasingly enjoying that agency is now in the hands
of the universe and not of ‘me’ anymore. We shall see how it goes.
Just magnificent. Reading this I had tears of immense joy and appreciation in my eyes.
And you are an ongoing inspiration for everyone on the forum, it is palpable and truly wonderful.
Yes, you are “now experiencing out-from-control virtual freedom proper” –
don’t let it slip away,
it is too precious to allow
“blind-nature’s default set-point”
to interfere at any time.
What a mirificent event heralding that ‘your’ days are numbered :))))
Claudiu:
Thanks for the encouraging words and the note not to “let it slip away” :))
It’s been a rather confusing day and am not actually entirely sure what’s currently happening. The odd thing is that I am feeling very resistant in a way, or I feel that “there is something wrong”. But I haven’t been able to put my finger on it yet. The best explanation so far is that I am afraid deep down, and this fear is manifesting as resistance. This makes sense as the feeling is one of wanting to withdraw and go back to how things were before. But, instead of doing that, I have been keeping my hands in my pockets and sincerely looking about and wondering, is there anything actually wrong that is happening right now? Is anything going wrong? Is there anything tangibly bad about it? And I come up with the answer that there is nothing wrong, nothing I can point to. So as far as I have been able to ascertain, the fear is unfounded.
It isn’t what I would have expected from being out-from-control hence it makes me doubt what I wrote earlier on my journal on the forum. Yet there continues to be the experience as what I wrote earlier that the controls are let go of, and the purity of the actual world is readily accessible, albeit this connection is obscured somewhat by my resistance. So I’m currently taking the approach to not go back but rather than trying to uplevel or go forward, to see that it is safe where I am now, and get used to it, and stabilize in it in a sense (although it is dynamic so it wouldn’t be stable in a ‘being stalled’ sense).
Does it sound like anything you’ve experienced or someone else has experienced in terms of being out-from-control? I suppose your publicized mutiny happened when you were out-from-control already, and Devika was out-from-control for a long while, so it sounds like it does not necessarily guarantee “smooth sailing”.
The best I can put it is that the key is that the goal is self-immolation entirely, in toto. Being out-from-control I am thus faced with the stark fact that I was never needed for control anyway — which is very much against my blind-nature-given plans of continuing to exist, survive, and procreate, harming whoever I need to in my blind instinctual quest to do so — and this spoils my plans . So it’s a matter of gently accepting the fact so I can proceed further.
The other thing is there seems to be nothing for me to “hang onto” as in a fixed point of existence as a feeling-being anymore (the purity itself is the clear answer of where actual existence lies) — except for this feeling of fear or resistance, hence it feels “safe” to do so or go back to it because it’s familiar. But in actuality there is no hanging onto anything, and I know from my PCEs and EEs that this is not actually a problem in fact. I am not sure why I would be experiencing it differently now, but perhaps it’s par for the course.
Part of it may also be that, soon after I allowed myself to let go of the controls, I was wonderfully delighting and reveling in it, and as my near-actual enjoyment and appreciation for it was growing, I felt an affective joy or ecstasy arising somewhere in the middle of my stomach. I increased and grew that ecstasy and had a sort of weird attempt to ‘connect’ it with the actual, and that resulted in a shift which I soon came to realize was an actuality-mimicking ASC. It was obvious right from the start because I felt disappointment right away, and that was one of the red flags I had pre-established for myself that it’s an actuality-mimicking ASC, feeling that disappointment after it happens. Yet even so I wasn’t entirely sure… it lasted for about 30 minutes before I sort of replayed what I had done with the ecstasy-joy-rising-and-filling, and I very tangibly got myself out of it. It felt like I had un-turned-myself outside-in back from the inside-out I had just done, and I felt a relief as it ended and I went back to the way I had been before, which was notable for the tangible re-appearance of pure intent that had been missing in the interim due to the ASC.
I know from the past times it happened that it’s somewhat of a traumatic event, so perhaps it is the hangover from that interfering with what is happening now. I don’t think it will happen again in that way as I know what not to do for next time but, perhaps it is making me a bit shy .
I read this with joy and great admiration not only about the mirificence you are experiencing but also how your
writing skills are getting better every day you post something on the forum.
If you have any idea or plans to publish some of it in a newly to be set-up section on the AFT website I am all open for it.
Claudiu:
I am intrigued by the idea! I certainly want to enable the increasingly-accessible purity to spread even further through human consciousness. For now I will mull it over and see how the latest developments for me shake out. The public report of my being in a different way of being, and the notion of publishing what I write on the AFT site, is a real test in a way. I get a bit shy and of stage fright about it, it would really be testing and challenging my integrity to live up to what I write, which is actually a good sort of pressure I think . Whatever the road to get there, the intent is clear — I will go all the way with this!!
Best regards & hugs,
Claudiu
Claudiu, E-mail to Vineeto, 24 June 2024
Claudiu:
Dear Vineeto,
Just a brief update — I had a PCE while showering and it helped me to see that I’m essentially going in the right direction
In the broad strokes it is the same issue as ever — ‘me’ mucking things up. And I saw again how safe actuality is and that it’s safe to enjoy and
revel in it
Editor’s note: The emoji ‘’ is called
‘man dancing’ and was used here to signify exuberance and delight, as in of spontaneously
bursting into dance.
From that clear pure perspective I was able to see I wasn’t going awry, and actually the difference between the PCE and outside the PCE was smaller, the gap between me and actuality is less now!
So now I have a spring back in my step and off I go but now traipsing about
Cheers,
Claudiu
Claudiu, E-mail to Vineeto, 24 June 2024
Vineeto: Dear Claudiu,
It’s been a rather confusing day and am not actually entirely sure what’s currently happening. The odd thing is that I am feeling very resistant in a way, or I feel that “there is something wrong”. But I haven’t been able to put my finger on it yet. The best explanation so far is that I am afraid deep down, and this fear is manifesting as resistance. This makes sense as the feeling is one of wanting to withdraw and go back to how things were before. But, instead of doing that, I have been keeping my hands in my pockets and sincerely looking about and wondering, is there anything actually wrong that is happening right now? Is anything going wrong? Is there anything tangibly bad about it? And I come up with the answer that there is nothing wrong, nothing I can point to. So as far as I have been able to ascertain, the fear is unfounded.
It isn’t what I would have expected from being out-from-control hence it makes me doubt what I wrote earlier on my journal on the forum. Yet there continues to be the experience as what I wrote earlier that the controls are let go of, and the purity of the actual world is readily accessible, albeit this connection is obscured somewhat by my resistance. So I’m currently taking the approach to not go back but rather than trying to uplevel or go forward, to see that it is safe where I am now, and get used to it, and stabilize in it in a sense (although it is dynamic so it wouldn’t be stable in a ‘being stalled’ sense).
Vineeto:
My guess is, and it’s only a guess, that what ‘feels wrong’ somehow is that you are not like you used to be and the brain itself, not just the feelings, needs to rearrange itself to accommodate to the new way of being in accord with your realisation that you are not actually in control anyway. It’s a big shift and things will fall in place eventually — as your second email confirms. Take is slowly, don’t push forward, just allow what is happening without letting yourself slip back to the old familiar ways.
Does it sound like anything you’ve experienced or someone else has experienced in terms of being out-from-control? I suppose your publicized mutiny happened when you were out-from-control already, and Devika was out-from-control for a long while, so it sounds like it does not necessarily guarantee “smooth sailing”.
Vineeto:
Yes it does compare somewhat, according to memory and whatever I have in writing. For instance —
Vineeto:
Many weird and whacky, as well as magical and wonderful events happened, which I won’t relate here because they were only relevant for the first two pioneers of the direct route to an actual freedom. What I can say, however is that being-out-from control, living on the actual freedom side of the wall of fear, enabled an ever-increasing apperceptive attentiveness that allowed me to breeze through one of the most intense panic attacks I ever experienced. Richard has described one of those panic attacks during his own out-from-control period as experiencing himself as if ‘sitting on a huge mountain of dread with his hands in his pocket whistling a tune’.
I fully concur with his description as far as my own experience of this particular panic attack was concerned. Despite the physical contractions and the racing of panicky thoughts there was an overall (…) background awareness, aka apperceptive attentiveness, that all is well and that the material universe is indeed utterly benign.
Direct Route, No. 5, 17 January 2010
And yes, the mutiny+panic attack happened while I was out-from-control, and Devika’s turn-about also happened while she was out-from-control. They were entirely different reasons, and for ‘Vineeto’ the facts of Richard's writings and the fact that an actual world exists were never in doubt but ‘she’ lost her head temporarily anyways, while Devika decided to slip fully back into the human condition.
The best I can put it is that the key is that the goal is self-immolation entirely, in toto. Being out-from-control I am thus faced with the stark fact that I was never needed for control anyway — which is very much against my blind-nature-given plans of continuing to exist, survive, and procreate, harming whoever I need to in my blind instinctual quest to do so — and this spoils my plans . So it’s a matter of gently accepting the fact so I can proceed further.
The other thing is there seems to be nothing for me to “hang onto” as in a fixed point of existence as a feeling-being anymore (the purity itself is the clear answer of where actual existence lies) — except for this feeling of fear or resistance, hence it feels “safe” to do so or go back to it because it’s familiar. But in actuality there is no hanging onto anything, and I know from my PCEs and EEs that this is not actually a problem in fact. I am not sure why I would be experiencing it differently now, but perhaps it’s par for the course.
Vineeto: And from a different perspective this “stark fact” is really a relief from the burden to having to control life, and going by your second email you are already seeing this. Perhaps it’s also a shock which needs time for mental and emotional readjustment. It certainly confirms that ‘being out-from-under-control’ is indeed a different state of being and that this is not a temporary EE :))
The benefit from being out-from-control is this —
In effect, the actualism process is what ensues when one gets out from being under control,
via *having given oneself prior permission to have one’s life live itself (i.e., sans the controlling doer)*,
and a different way of being comes about (i.e., where the beer is the operant) – whereupon a
thrilling out-from-control momentum takes over and an inevitability sets in – whereafter there is no pulling back (hence the reluctance in having it set in motion) as once begun it is nigh-on unstoppable.
Then one is in for the ride of a lifetime!
Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 January 2016 [emphasis added]
And both out-from-control ‘Pamela’ and ‘Vineeto’ stated that —
In fact, in her period of being out-from-control Pamela commented on how much better this experience (of being out-from-control) was than her 5-months PCE and she explained that her PCE was a static experience while being out-from-control was exemplified by the progress of coming closer and closer to the actual world.
I could not agree more.
Vineeto, Direct Route, No. 5, 14 January 2010
And again —
This experience of ongoing intimacy was so much better than any PCE I ever had, and of course better than any excellence experience I enjoyed because it was dynamic and effervescent, moving closer and closer to my destiny, encouraging me to take the decision to allow the last, final and irrevocable step to happen.
Vineeto, Becoming Free
Part of it may also be that, soon after I allowed myself to let go of the controls, I was wonderfully delighting and revelling in it, and as my near-actual enjoyment and appreciation for it was growing, I felt an affective joy or ecstasy arising somewhere in the middle of my stomach. I increased and grew that ecstasy and had a sort of weird attempt to ‘connect’ it with the actual, and that resulted in a shift which I soon came to realize was an actuality-mimicking ASC. It was obvious right from the start because I felt disappointment right away, and that was one of the red flags I had pre-established for myself that it‘s an actuality-mimicking ASC, feeling that disappointment after it happens. Yet even so I wasn’t entirely sure… it lasted for about 30 minutes before I sort of replayed what I had done with the ecstasy-joy-rising-and-filling, and I very tangibly got myself out of it. It felt like I had un-turned-myself outside-in back from the inside-out I had just done, and I felt a relief as it ended and I went back to the way I had been before, which was notable for the tangible re-appearance of pure intent that had been missing in the interim due to the ASC.
I know from the past times it happened that it’s somewhat of a traumatic event, so perhaps it is the hangover from that interfering with what is happening now. I don’t think it will happen again in that way as I know what not to do for next time but, perhaps it is making me a bit shy .
Vineeto:
You are having quite an interesting time, *and* the exquisite awareness to catch an oncoming ASC
right from the start so that you could get yourself out of it so quickly. Again is shows
the importance and beneficience of always relying on the guidance of pure intent,
which
Alan
or
Milito
had a lack thereof.
Editor’s note: For details on Milito’s claim of becoming actually free, and what unfolded afterwards, the
reader is encouraged to visit the following link, scrolling up and down for further context and detail as
needed: .
I guess it all was an existential experiment on your part to determine that although it felt like
“there is something wrong”
that it was in fact the alternative, which was the wrong way to go, and this allows you to find your balance in pure intent again.
Just a brief update — I had a PCE while showering and it helped me to see that I’m essentially going in the right direction
Vineeto: Apperceptive awareness doing its magic, yet again. It’s just wonderful to see it in action.
In the broad strokes it is the same issue as ever — ‘me’ mucking things up. And I saw again how safe actuality is and that it’s safe to enjoy
and revel in it
Vineeto: You can be gentle with yourself, now that you have given yourself prior permission to have your life live itself, and eventual occurring wobbles are just par for the course. Remember, even the ‘beer’ has a deep-down yearning for oblivion and will eventually agree to your manumission.
From that clear pure perspective I was able to see I wasn’t going awry, and actually the difference between the PCE and outside the PCE was smaller, the gap between me and actuality is less now!
Vineeto: Here you are experientially confirming what a correspondent was asking me about in an email just yesterday —
This penultimate out-from-under-control/ different-way-of-being is barely distinguishable from a pure consciousness experience. (It was from this ongoing excellence experiencing that pure consciousness experiences occurred on a near-daily basis – sometimes two-three times a day – for the identity
inhabiting this flesh and blood body all those years ago).
Richard, Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Destinal Virtual Freedom
So now I have a spring back in my step and off I go but now traipsing about
Vineeto: This is so wonderful to hear, Claudiu soon you will be skipping about.
I am fascinated by your detailed report and much appreciate what you have told me. I am vitally interested how the process unfolds.
[…]
Big hug and appreciation.
Vineeto
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, "Claudiu’s early days out from under control", 25 June 2024
Vineeto: Dear Claudiu,
[…]
If you have any idea or plans to publish some of it in a newly to be set-up section on the AFT website I am all open for it.
I am intrigued by the idea! I certainly want to enable the increasingly-accessible purity to spread even further through human consciousness. For now I will mull it over and see how the latest developments for me shake out. The public report of my being in a different way of being, and the notion of publishing what I write on the AFT site, is a real test in a way. I get a bit shy and of stage fright about it, it would really be testing and challenging my integrity to live up to what I write, which is actually a good sort of pressure I think . Whatever the road to get there, the intent is clear — I will go all the way with this!!
Vineeto:
Personally I have no doubt that your connection to pure intent will prevent you from saying or writing anything untrue. You are already writing publicly and I can see your pure intent in action — but you have to confirm that yourself in action, of course, in order to be more and more confident.
You are familiar with all the disclaimer notices on top of ‘Peter’s’ and ‘Vineeto’s writings before they became actually free — just to inform people to take everything with the disclaimer box at the top with the due precaution and you can make one for your own writings as well.
Claudiu:
Whatever the road to get there, the intent is clear — I will go all the way with this!!
Vineeto:
Yes, I am quite confident that you will! And that you won't waste time either. :))
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, 25 June 2024
On the plane ride I just got off of today, I was able to see that it’s a fact that it’s not really up to me how things go or turn out in the universe. I have some degree of influence but ultimately the universe will do what it does. That is, as a fact I’m not really in control anyway!
Allowing myself to see and accept and appreciate this, has led to me being able to let go of the controls, as I wasn’t in control anyway. If I’m not wrong then I’m now experiencing out-from-control virtual freedom proper. After a bumpy takeoff (metaphorically for me, not literally for the plane ), I am delighting in and increasingly enjoying that agency is now in the hands of the universe and not of ‘me’ anymore. We shall see how it goes
claudiu:
Time for an update! In short: it is going swimmingly
I am definitely experiencing a different way of ‘being’. I’m currently becoming accustomed to and acclimatizing to this new way of experiencing being alive.
The most amazing and wondrous aspect about it is… nothing is ever going “wrong”. Especially at the beginning, I experienced alarm and worry or fear that I was doing the wrong thing, or on the wrong path – and I was fully experiencing them as emotions as they otherwise would be (hence I know I’m not in an emotion-suppressing ASC). However, when I contemplated on what exactly is wrong, or what is going wrong, what facts about being alive would lead to this fear being substantial or credible? I couldn’t find anything.
It is like Vineeto described here (emphasis added):
Many weird and whacky, as well as magical and wonderful events happened, which I won’t relate here because they were only relevant for the first two pioneers of the direct route to an actual freedom. What I can say, however is that being-out-from control, living on the actual freedom side of the wall of fear, enabled an ever-increasing apperceptive attentiveness that allowed me to breeze through one of the most intense panic attacks I ever experienced. Richard has described one of those panic attacks during his own out-from-control period as experiencing himself as if ‘sitting on a huge mountain of dread with his hands in his pocket whistling a tune’.
I fully concur with his description as far as my own experience of this particular panic attack was concerned. Despite the physical contractions and *the racing of panicky thoughts* there was *an overall […] background awareness*, aka apperceptive attentiveness, that *all is well* and that the material universe is indeed utterly benign.
Vineeto, Direct Route, No. 5, 17 January 2010
claudiu:
What really sealed the deal of confirming I’m on the right path was a PCE I had whilst taking a shower. I saw that the anxiety and fear about whether I’m on the right path, was no different to any other emotional issue that I have had – it was ultimately ‘me’ mucking things up. And I saw that there was no weirdness or ASC quality of what I was experiencing, because all of that would have gone away in the PCE, and I didn’t notice anything disappearing like that which would bring it in stark contrast.
Instead, I experienced it during the PCE as if the regular gap between ‘me’ and actuality was *smaller* than before – I distinctly recall at the time that the difference was smaller, as in, I was by default closer to the actual world.
It is like Richard wrote here (emphasis added):
(…) The virtual freedom being referred to in ‘Richard’s Journal’ is, of course, the full-blown experiencing of it: an out-from-being-under-control and, thus, different way of being nowadays known as an ongoing excellence experience.
(This ongoing excellence experience is what the methodological aspect of a virtual freedom – a persistent and diligent application of the actualism method – can morph into whenever that current-time awareness method has been applied to a sufficiency for that to occur/ have happen).
This penultimate out-from-under-control/ different-way-of-being is *barely distinguishable from a pure consciousness experience*. (It was from this ongoing excellence experiencing that pure consciousness experiences occurred on a near-daily basis – sometimes two-three times a day – for the identity inhabiting this flesh and blood body all those years ago).
Richard, Selected Correspondence, Dynamic Destinal Virtual Freedom
claudiu:
I am truly astounded as to what is happening because it isn’t like I imagined it would be. This is obvious in hindsight – just as you can’t know what a PCE is like before having or remembering a clear one, you can’t know what being out-from-control is like. What I would say now is that a large part of the uncertainty at the beginning stemmed from me having an idea or picture in mind of what actually walking the next steps towards actual freedom would be like. And thus, implicitly, of course I was trying to walk that (imagined) path. But being out-from-control, I see now that it is rather about *allowing it to happen* in the way that it does happen, and accepting that. In other words, the key is control, and continuing to allow myself to be out from under it – which I do gladly and with great vitality, endorsement, and appreciation.
The quality that stands out the most is an almost complete lack of concern (as in, a carefreeness) about anything outside of what is happening here and now. My mind, thoughts, and emotions, simply don’t drift towards those things they usually would. In other words it is perfectly easy to simply and thus contentedly be here.
And yet, I am perfectly able to take care of all of the things I used to. It’s not like I have become forgetful. And the things that do need doing, I do and follow up on. But the ones that don’t, it is simply obvious and sensible not to really expend any energy on them.
Interestingly, I realize that this is completely different to how I was before, but the experience of it is that it really isn’t that different. How delightful .
When I do find myself in a habitual thought or feeling patterns, and I catch myself doing it, now it’s almost like I am just ‘pretending’ to still do those things. It is very easy to cease and continue on the good/carefree path.
I am much more easily able to appreciate things and especially other people. Watching my partner puzzling over where to place some new decorative tiles she purchased – I see that she is doing it out of caring, a caring that our home looks nice and is a pleasant place to be – how wonderful! When I attended a dinner which entailed a singer with a three-piece band in the local style – glancing upon the singer’s face as she prepared and then launched into a heartful singing, I deeply appreciated how involved and invested she was, and indeed how much she cared, to put all of her practice and training to use and focus it all in this moment so she could deliver a performance the audience would like!
The purity I experience now is of a much finer quality than I was experiencing before, yet I can tell experientially that it is the same purity, just experienced more directly. It seems the more intense feeling of it was due to it being filtered through my experiencing of it, which there is less of now. So at first glance it seems like it is “less” than before, but as I contemplate and allow it I actually see that it is “more”, more refined that is! It has the delightful quality of anhedonic pleasure as I previously experienced it in PCEs that there is no “cap” to it, it can never be “too much”.
The other amazing thing is that this purity is always there, whether I am more consciously experiencing of it or less. There is a remarkable stability, a permanence to it. And I can see that me attempting to go into it further is not the way to go. My efforts prior to being out-from-control were more about getting me to commit and go into that direction, but now my efforts are more along the lines of allowing myself to go further into that purity, as I see that the way forward will not be of my doing, but rather the doing of that purity.
This way of being is remarkably stable yet dynamic at the same time. I do not need to maintain it in the way that I had to maintain feeling good/great/excellent or a connection to pure intent before. The default has shifted. At the same time, I get the sense that if I slack hard enough for long enough I could
still fall out of it and back into my old ways, hence the “allowing myself to continue” is
an active engagement, not a
back-seat approach.
Interestingly much of what I’m experiencing now I would have thought would be only happening once actually free. I can only conclude that actual freedom will be even more magnificent and wonderful than I previously thought it might be .
To sum: it is wonderful, truly wonderful, and I invite any and all actualists to join me and go out-from-control themselves so as to enable themselves to reach their destinies sooner rather than later
(Kuba I’m looking at you!!)
As for any advice for how to have someone do it: I actually don’t really know. All I can say is that for myself, the key was realizing that ultimately I’m already not in control anyway. The universe ultimately dictates what will happen, I can only really pretend to greater or lesser degrees what my say in it is. Hence it is safe to allow the controls to be let go of, as you do not have that control anyway. It can seem scary at first, but, truly wonderful once one gets used to it!
Cheers,
Claudiu
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #165
claudiu:
Hi Vineeto,
Just a brief note to thank you for your advice and guidance, which came at a critical point :)
I’ve written an update on what’s been unfolding for me, you can read it here:
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #165
.
It is all truly wonderful indeed!
My guess is, and it’s only a guess, that what ‘feels wrong’ somehow is that you are not like you used to be and the brain itself, not just the feelings, needs to rearrange itself to accommodate to the new way of being in accord with your realisation that you are not actually in control anyway. It’s a big shift and things will fall in place eventually – as your second email confirms. Take is slowly, don’t push forward, just allow what is happening without letting yourself slip back to the old familiar ways.
claudiu:
I think this was basically it. I wasn’t used to not being in control, so it felt wrong – I think it was mostly an anxiety-type of thing at an emotional level. Cognitively it has been pretty straightforward – I see that I’m not really doing things all that differently than before, i.e. what needs to get done still gets done, so that I don’t really need to be in control for things to get done.
I also think part of the shock of it reactivated some old conditioning from my meditative days. I recognized the way I was experiencing myself reminded me of how I was experiencing myself near the end of my meditative trip – particularly, I had conditioned myself to respond to the constant anxiety that meditation had induced in me, with suppressing that anxiety with the cognitive “noting” technique, that had become wordless at that point. So part of the problem was I wasn’t allowing myself to feel that fear and anxiety. Once I did that it became a lot easier to figure out what was happening and for things to smooth over. I’m not sure why that old conditioning was reactivated in particular at this juncture, but it resolved itself rather quickly!
And from a different perspective this “stark fact” is really a relief from the burden to having to control life, and going by your second email you are already seeing this. Perhaps it’s also a shock which needs time for mental and emotional readjustment. It certainly confirms that ‘being out-from-under-control’ is indeed a different state of being and that this is not a temporary EE :))
claudiu:
Indeed :))
You can be gentle with yourself, now that you have given yourself prior permission to have your life live itself, and eventual occurring wobbles are just par for the course. Remember, even the ‘beer’ has a deep-down yearning for oblivion and will eventually agree to your manumission.
claudiu:
That is great to hear :))
Also as a matter of curiosity and interest: I had quite the reaction when I read those words you wrote “your manumission”. It struck me that you were addressing the actual Claudiu, since that is who will be manumitted. Yet at the time I also experienced it like you were talking… to me . The process of me (as in ‘me’) self-immolating so as to free me (as in actual Claudiu), is very odd and funny at times haha.
[…]
Cheers!
vineeto:
Hi Claudiu,
This is all very wonderful indeed and I am pleased that my advice and guidance was of help to you.
I read your forum message with delight before I even found your emails. Definitely something that is worth recording and preserving.
‘Vineeto’ has written precious little about her own out-from-control period (so much was happening in this time!) and you are now reporting it from day one!
I think this was basically it. I wasn’t used to not being in control, so it felt wrong – I think it was mostly an anxiety-type of thing at an emotional level. Cognitively it has been pretty straightforward – I see that I’m not really doing things all that differently than before, i.e. what needs to get done still gets done, so that I don’t really need to be in control for things to get done.
vineeto:
That is a sound observation and a reassuring report in itself, especially for those who are intending to follow in your footsteps.
I also think part of the shock of it reactivated some old conditioning from my meditative days. I recognized the way I was experiencing myself reminded me of how I was experiencing myself near the end of my meditative trip – particularly, I had conditioned myself to respond to the constant anxiety that meditation had induced in me, with suppressing that anxiety with the cognitive “noting” technique, that had become wordless at that point. So part of the problem was I wasn’t allowing myself to feel that fear and anxiety. Once I did that it became a lot easier to figure out what was happening and for things to smooth over. I’m not sure why that old conditioning was reactivated in particular at this juncture, but it resolved itself rather quickly!
vineeto:
This is fascinating – apparently this conditioning was so ingrained that is became part of your ‘automatic pilot’ (as for instance the movements of driving a car are) and has thus avoided being noticed until now. It should be so much easier now to recognize anything in
the direction of “fear and anxiety”
if it does occur again and the whole package should soon be a thing of the past.
I would say the reason
“why that old conditioning was reactivated in particular at this juncture”
is because you had previously realized that you are no longer in control of what actually happens, and keeping in control and
“fear and anxiety”
go hand in hand. All your conditioning will eventually be triggered, before or after becoming actually free, for you to examine it and turn it into a
silly/sensible assessment.
Editor’s note: The reader is encouraged to read the following links to refresh their memory as to what it
is that “a silly/sensible assessment” entails:
.
You can be gentle with yourself, now that you have given yourself prior permission to have your life live itself, and eventual occurring wobbles are just par for the course. Remember, even the ‘beer’ has a deep-down yearning for oblivion and will eventually agree to your manumission.
That is great to hear :))
vineeto:
You confirmed this yearning for oblivion yourself when you wrote to me (unless I misinterpreted it) –
I found a deep-down desire that I already have anyway to self-immolate, and nothing but ‘me’ standing in the way, as I just wrote in my journal:
Fascinating: deep down I find a remarkably powerful desire to self immolate. Above this is me putting the brakes on— because I see that allowing that already-existing desire to flourish to its full power would be the end of me!
Actuality-mimicking ASCs thus have a very clear etiology: they are a self survival mechanism.
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #141, 30 April 2024
Claudiu, E-mail to Vineeto, 30 April 2024, 9:47 PM WEST
Also as a matter of curiosity and interest: I had quite the reaction when I read those words you wrote “your manumission”. It struck me that you were addressing the actual Claudiu, since that is who will be manumitted. Yet at the time I also experienced it like you were talking… to me . The process of me (as in ‘me’) self-immolating so as to free me (as in actual Claudiu), is very odd and funny at times haha.
vineeto:
Yes I was – in fact, I always talk to the actual Claudiu and only give lip-service to the identity, but I also sense that the actual Claudiu is only thinly veiled now and eventually the ‘beer’ will barely have
any choice but to undersign your
“release from
bondage”.
I agree, it is very funny at times, because ‘me’ does not exist in actuality.
And this ‘sensing’ of the actual Claudiu shining through was confirmed when you wrote on the forum –
[…] but now my efforts are more along the lines of allowing myself to go further into that purity,
as I see that *the way forward will not be of my doing, but rather the doing of that purity*.
vineeto:
It is so deliciously wonderful that I have tears of appreciation each time I read this sentence – and I have several times.
Cheers Vineeto
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, 28 June 2024
claudiu:
Life is funny
The main doubt I have about whether what I am experiencing can be called out-from-control virtual freedom is due to the following:
It is more than a trifle odd for someone who self-describes, publicly, on the same day as this recording
(i.e., 22 Jan 2016 in Message № 21740) as being ‘out from control’
as per actualism lingo – as well as writing of having an ‘extensive experience’ of pure consciousness experiences (PCE’s), of having an ‘extensive knowledge’ of the actual freedom writings, of having ‘spoken extensively’ with Richard, and of being thus ‘well prepared’ for the ‘Intimate Ambience Experiment’ which these recordings are a product of – to not have a current-time awareness of how they are experiencing this moment of being alive, each moment again, when the primary descriptors of being out-from-control is that it is of the nature of either an ongoing, and thus constantly dynamic, excellence experience (EE) or a similarly dynamic intimacy experience (IE).
In other words, someone genuinely out-from-control *is constantly (i.e., consistently) ‘feeling excellent’, come-what-may, by the very nature of what that term refers to*
[emphasis added]
Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 24 Jan 2016
claudiu:
That is, I wouldn’t say I am consistently feeling excellent per se, as I have been feeling much fear which is not pleasant by the nature of what fear is.
But then again, a panic attack and “sitting on a huge mountain of dread with his hands in his pocket whistling a tune” do not sound pleasant either,
Many weird and whacky, as well as magical and wonderful events happened, which I won’t relate here because they were only relevant for the first two pioneers of the direct route to an actual freedom. What I can say, however is that being-out-from control, living on the actual freedom side of the wall of fear, enabled an ever-increasing apperceptive attentiveness that allowed me to breeze through one of the most intense panic attacks I ever experienced. Richard has described one of those panic attacks during his own out-from-control period as experiencing himself as if ‘sitting on a huge mountain of dread with his hands in his pocket whistling a tune’.
I fully concur with his description as far as my own experience of this particular panic attack was concerned. Despite the physical contractions and the racing of panicky thoughts there was an overall […] background awareness, aka apperceptive attentiveness, that all is well and that the material universe is indeed utterly benign.
Vineeto, Direct Route, No. 5, 16 January 2010
claudiu:
What is certainly true is that despite feeling often-intense fear, I would say there is indeed a background awareness of the purity of the universe, which informs me that everything is actually entirely well in the world. During the midst of it at one point I was able to step back such that I was closer to that/was more that background awareness and see that essentially the process that is happening is me working through the various conditionings and objections that remain.
What is also true is that whenever I consciously decide to “rememorate the PCE”, easily and effortlessly I am experiencing that purity more. It is like I figured out how to swim from here to there and I can very easily swim over to there now.
So it is sort of amusing, I’ll feel like I feel bad and that I must be a fraud because I feel such fear about what is happening, and then the next minute I feel fantastic and that everything is well in the world and there is no real issue at hand.
I write all this to describe my experience accurately so as to not mislead or present misconceptions about what I’m experiencing.
What is definitely true is that I have certainly become obsessed with continuing this process. I am essentially spending all my conscious efforts on it.
What is also interesting is that the content of my objections have nothing to do with the particulars of my life anymore. Any such objections actually get resolved really quickly. Like for example, I felt deflated and disappointed that we missed a boat (literally) for a boat tour, we were rushing to do it and I thought we had made it but my partner didn’t see a few missed calls and they gave our seats away to someone else. My partner apologized and I said it’s ok, I just felt deflated and disappointed because we were rushing to do it and I thought we had made it, and we hugged and there was no lingering resentment, annoyance or issue whatsoever, just completely resolved issue with no aftermath (and no hesitation to voice (and not vent) what I was feeling!).
What is very strange is that my objections currently essentially amount to it being impossible that the universe can really be so perfect and that there really can be nothing wrong. Like, really, the universe is already perfect? Nothing is wrong? I don’t have to do anything but allow this perfection? That’s it? Somehow I am having these wild reactions that things are too perfect. It is really bizarre, but I suppose a lifetime of conditioning will lead to bizarre things. So I simultaneously feel like I have more to go than I thought, but also that there is really not much left.
I have this analogy in my head of a frightful dog that enjoys hugging but is too fearful. So, they would enjoy cuddling with their human, but when their human cuddles them they become uncomfortable and afraid and dart away. It is a matter for that animal to realize it is safe to cuddle and it’s ok for them to enjoy it, and then it would be better for them as there is no actual danger and they do actually like cuddling. So too with me and the universe
Cheers,
Claudiu
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #169, 1 July 2024
[The main doubt I have about whether what I am experiencing can be called out-from-control virtual freedom is due to the following:]
[…] In other words, someone genuinely out-from-control *is constantly (i.e., consistently) ‘feeling excellent’, come-what-may, by the very nature of what that term refers to* [emphasis added]
Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 24 Jan 2016
That is, I wouldn’t say I am consistently feeling excellent per se, as I have been feeling much fear which is not pleasant by the nature of what fear is.
But then again, a panic attack and “sitting on a huge mountain of dread with his hands in his pocket whistling a tune” do not sound pleasant either,
claudiu:
Ah possibly figured out the disconnect here. I was reading “constantly (i.e., consistently)” to mean 24/7, every second of the day, 100% of the time. But “consistently feeling excellent” doesn’t necessarily mean every single second, but rather, on a consistent basis. So there is no contradiction.
Given the below I am more confident that I continue to qualify
So it is sort of amusing, I’ll feel like I feel bad and that I must be a fraud because I feel such fear about what is happening, and then the next minute I feel fantastic and that everything is well in the world and there is no real issue at hand.
claudiu:
I think a good sign also is if I just drop any worrying about the proper term for what I am experiencing and just figure that whatever it is, how do I go forward from here? I see that nothing really changes. So I don’t sense that I am making an effort to try to shoehorn definitions so I can say that I qualify for this or that. The only thing that really matters is going forward and, of course, achieving the goal!
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #171, 1 July 2024
This is interesting, what you describe is exactly in line with what I have been experiencing for a while now, in varying degrees.
It’s like I will enter this ‘mode’ where I phase in and out of excellence for a few days, when in this mode it seems effortless to allow perfection as soon as I orient myself towards it, but then it’s not 24/7, because even when in that mode I will retreat back into normal for a few hours, when back in normal mode there is very clearly something missing, even when things are ok, that dynamic/magical aspect is not present.
claudiu:
Interesting! Reading what you write here helps to clarify things for me actually. I would say I can relate to what you write here as how I had been experiencing things before the
June 23rd plane ride, but the difference now is that the dynamical/magical aspect is never absent any more.
Also before there would be a certain amount of striving or reaching for that and some effort (in hindsight) needed to be experiencing the magical aspect, but now it’s not like that anymore, it’s like there is a backdrop of purity that is actually at the root of everything.
It’s an interesting one, how to proceed from this place. Whether it is simply about acclimatising oneself to perfection more and more. I suppose even when squarely back to normal this might be an opportunity to review some of the last objections that ‘I’ have as an identity.
claudiu:
Vineeto’s advice to me on June 15th, which she published on the AFT by now, was:
Today was an odd day – the level of appreciation and purity I experienced has been less than other days and my experience has been at times more like how ‘I’ would normally be. However this came with the sincerity of seeing that ‘I’ really do have to actually give ‘myself’ up for this to happen. Ceasing to be me is exactly what self-immolation is. As I write this now I can say I have no doubts that this is sincerely what I want to do.
I can understand that the level of appreciation and purity waxes and wanes, as if ‘you’ want to return to the default position of feeling neutral as described in Richard’s copied article from
Sonja Lyubomirsky.
I do appreciate your sincerity, it makes it so much easier.
The only way to counteract this falling back will be if you make the deliberate decision, when feeling excellent and experiencing pure intent comes along, to commit to living out-from-under-control from then onwards. When ‘Vineeto’ got out-from-under-control after many ‘ums and ahs’ it was delicious but a few days later ‘she’ fell out of it and accepted this as a matter of course. But Richard didn’t. When ‘she’ told him about it, he said jokingly something to the effect of “stand in the corner until you are back into out-from-under-control”!
So post-haste ‘Vineeto’ invited Peter into the bedroom and after some delicious intimacy soon was back where ‘she’ had been, and then was more watchful and determined to in fact stay out-from-under-control. It worked. It does need your active and decisive input – until an actual freedom happens, then you can’t fall back.
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, 15 June 2024
claudiu:
What I had realized at the time is that more effort was needed – allowing it to happen
is not a lackluster approach.
What seems to have really done the trick in terms of shifting to this new way of being, the most immediate cause,
was seeing that
I wasn’t in control in the first place anyway. It is tempting to say this latter realization is what did the trick but it is more likely that all of the above contributed to it.
It really has been a bigger shift and adjustment than I thought it would be. I thought it would just be an EE but more easy or smooth in a way. But the implications and ramifications of what it means are bigger than I realized and it seems like it takes some getting used to.
What a wonderful discussion for us to be having here! It is truly a wonderful time to be alive. I wouldn’t trade being alive now for any other time.
Cheers,
Claudiu
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #173, 1 July 2024
vineeto:
Hi Claudiu,
[…]
I read your report with delight – so much more new and detailed information which ‘Vineeto’ didn’t write about, or didn’t experience at the time. Your report gives everyone not only encouragement to take the next step but also allows them to relinquish doubt when suddenly intensive feelings resurge because some issue is being triggered and needs to be sorted or it simply seems all too good to be happening (like Kuba mentioned a few times as well).
Like, really, the universe is already perfect? Nothing is wrong? I don’t have to do anything but allow this perfection? That’s it? Somehow I am having these wild reactions that things are too perfect. It is really bizarre, but I suppose a lifetime of conditioning will lead to bizarre things. So I simultaneously feel like I have more to go than I thought, but also that there is really not much left.
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #169, 1 July 2024
vineeto:
It could be that it’s not only that you “don’t have to do anything but allow this perfection?” but also, ‘your’ very existence is in question because ‘you’ were the ‘doer’, the controller, the apparent initiator – and now this is recognized, sometimes almost instantaneously, as all having been a silly illusion. It does take a while to fully digest its ramifications!
And now that the ‘doer’ is effectively in abeyance, the ‘beer’ itself can existentially sense its diminishing importance too and the natural reaction can be a strong emotion, in your case perhaps mainly bouts of fear – but they are impotent,
because there is “a background awareness of the purity of the universe, which informs me that everything is actually entirely well in the world”.
I am confident that this is simply a natural way of getting used to the
“background awareness of the purity of the universe”, which will more and more come to the foreground as you settle into this new and different way of being.
Ah possibly figured out the disconnect here. I was reading “constantly (i.e., consistently)” to mean 24/7, every second of the day, 100% of the time. But “consistently feeling excellent” doesn’t necessarily mean every single second, but rather, on a consistent basis. So there is no contradiction. Given the below I am more confident that I continue to qualify.
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal #171, 1 July 2024
vineeto:
You certainly do – all your reported reactions since you first publicly announced being out from under control confirm this. You would not have those reactions if you were still in control.
[…] The only thing that really matters is going forward and, of course, achieving the goal!
vineeto:
It’s not far now … and remember what Richard always reminded us of, “it will be now when it’s happening”.
As you said before – “the way forward will not be of my doing, but rather the doing of that purity.”
Cheers Vineeto
Vineeto, E-mail to Claudiu, 2 July 2024
claudiu:
Hi Andrew,
Editor’s note: For Richard’s correspondence with Andrew, between 2013 to 2016,
see: .
Claudiu I am glad you could see past your moralistic application of a observation by Richard about Alan whom had consistently misappropriated Actualist term to describe his previous bi-polar inspired enlightenment.
[…]
Morality and religion are the life blood of our identity. Imagining that Richard was talking about you, and not Alan, is one of the hallmarks of religion.
claudiu:
I found your message a bit odd. I of course knew that in the January 24, 2016
message I quoted,
Richard was talking about Alan’s state of being on January 24, 2016, and not Claudiu’s state of being seven-and-a-half years later on July 1st, 2024.
The way of being known as “out-from-control” is of course something that is possible in human consciousness in general, and thus its qualities and descriptors will not differ due to which particular person is being evaluated as whether they are out-from-control.
As such, I was taking a descriptor that Richard gave of a quality of being out-from-control – namely that “someone genuinely out-from-control is constantly (i.e., consistently) ‘feeling excellent’, come-what-may, by the very nature of what that term refers to” and seeing if it applied to me, so as to make my evaluation of my own current state of being.
I can’t think of a less moralistic approach than this – looking at precise definitions and terms and objectively (and consistently) applying them to see if they hold.
The key, of course, was that “constantly” has a different (although related)
meaning than “consistently”. Funnily enough, I realized this due to a conversation I had where I joked to my partner that we needed a “constant gardener”. And my partner pointed out that we need a “consistent gardener”, i.e. not one there 24/7 (our garden is not so big as to require that level of attention), but rather one that comes on a regular basis (which need not be one of being there 24/7). I initially demurred on the vocabularistic distinction but then came to see that she had a point.
Put that together with other common descriptors of virtual freedom such as the following and the picture coalesces:
If one is not happy and harmless now, then one has something to look at to discover why not … and one keeps on looking until one is back on track. Being ‘on track’ means a general sense of well-being … a grumpy person has no chance whatsoever of becoming free. Once one has established this base, one up-levels the ‘feeling happy and harmless’ experience to ‘feeling the sheer perfection of being alive here and now’. It is possible to experience this for ninety-nine percent of the time … and the other one percent provides very little trouble. I call this a virtual freedom.
Richard, Selected Correspondence, Contemplation
claudiu:
That is, it is not that one is virtually free 99% of the time, then stops being virtually free 1% of the time, then resumes being virtually free once that 1% is over – rather, one is virtually free, which entails a mere ~1% of disruption.
Combine all that with the reasonable understanding that there may be more issues at the start while one is adapting to and adjusting the new way of being, and it all makes perfect sense.
The ongoing experience of it is what brings me a continuing confidence. It is really very different than normal. I have experienced old issues which used to bring me great consternation, and initially it feels like I am experiencing them at the same level of intensity, yet then I realize there there is no “teeth” to it anymore, there is no deep, core worry anymore – and I’m able to easily keep my hands in my pocket and work my way through it, sometimes as it’s happening and sometimes after the fact.
It is truly wonderful, and I whole-heartedly recommend it!
Cheers,
Claudiu
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, 7 July 2024
claudiu:
*Journal Entry*
On July 2nd I had quite the initially-disorienting experiential realization.
I was sitting at my desk at work, allowing the purity of actuality to manifest in all its wondrous magicality, and as I got further into it, I perceived more and more the core of ‘me’, and as it went deeper, I saw that at ‘my’ very core was… a core and essential “hopelessness”!
An utter hopelessness that nothing will ever truly work out, an intrinsic fatalism, a woven-in defeatism.
I was shocked to find it there, and together with seeing it there I also saw that it was simply not needed anymore – and this became rapidly disorienting as I experienced that part of myself unraveling. I experienced it like this core hopelessness was tying ‘me’ together, and now ‘I’ had split off into these four or five separate fragments with nothing tying them together anymore.
This brought an intense fear – it seems part and parcel of this process of dismantling myself is fear – and so I put my foot down so as to not proceed further until the ramifications of this were sorted out. There was an undercurrent of fear for a while and I was very aware it was because of what I saw there.
The wonderful thing is that now I am able to be aware that this core hopelessness has utterly lost its power! I can perceive the palpable absence of it. If I do catch myself generally worrying about something, I can now see that there is ultimately no reason to worry – because what is actually at the ‘root’ of everything is that palpable purity and benevolent existence, not a hopeless defeatism.
Looking at it now I would say the hopelessness was due to ‘me’ accurately feeling that there is no way ‘I’ can ever be whole or complete. There is no way for ‘me’, staying as ‘me’, to be completely fulfilled and satisfying. If there were no alternative (i.e. actual freedom) then hopelessness would be the proper response. However now that I not only know there is, but have also committed to having it happen for me sooner rather than later, there is no longer any need for such a hopelessness.
Combine the above with another realization on that same day that being happy and harmless is not a burden, as in something I have to do on top of my normal duties and requirements, but rather something I get to do as a bonus when all my basic needs of survival have been met (and they are very readily and easily met), which bonus derives directly from the purity of actuality – and the reader can get a sense of just how delightful things are turning out to be.
Cheers,
Claudiu
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, 7 July 2024
I was shocked to find it there, and together with seeing it there *I also saw that it was simply not needed anymore*
This has also been my experience with some of the last dramas which have been tying ‘me’ together. They are still there to some degree but somehow they have lost their sting. For example this morning with it being Monday I woke up with some of that familiar feeling of resentment around work. But there was 2 important differences. One was that I have already committed to no longer going back to ‘normal’ and the second was that this drama was merely a shadow of its former self because of the perfection and purity that is accessible all around.
It’s like the perfection and purity, once committed to, makes the rest ‘my’ dramas redundant. So it seems then it is a case of allowing ‘myself’ to continue being unraveled in this way.
Kub933, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, #179
Actually it’s interesting to contemplate what it means to go back to ‘normal’. I can experientially tell the difference very easily, it is very clear that when back to ‘normal’ I am in some kind of a ‘cell’ of ‘my’ own making, the very structure of the ‘cell’ is what creates the unbearable feeling of separation that epitomises being a ‘self’.
But when allowing perfection and purity it’s as if those boundaries of the ‘cell’ have disappeared and now ‘I’ am still here, situated still in the ‘centre’ but all around is perfection and purity. Which means that ‘I’ am being actively worked on by this perfection and purity, like ‘I’ have allowed it to peek through into ‘my’ core.
When I consider this it makes sense to me what an out from control virtual freedom is about, it is the abeyance of the ‘doer’ (that very ‘cell’) and now the ‘beer’ (the remaining ‘centre’) is left freely exposed for the perfection and purity to dynamically do it’s thing.
Kub933, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, #180
claudiu:
Yea! Sounds like what my experience of it is too.
So all you have to do is – not go back to normal
It is very freeing in a way. Before, I would need to maintain an EE to some degree, and in a sense there was sort of a restriction of just what I could look at, as the EE would fade if I rocked the boat too much.
But now the boat is stable and it seems like I can freely explore anything and everything with this reliable rock-solid foundation of purity that remains unshakeable regardless. Thus I can freely explore the depths of ‘me’ without any fear or concern that the out-from-controlness will fade.
That being said I can see there is a way ‘back’ to normal if ‘I’ really wanted, and I continuously re-affirm remaining the way I am now, this new way of being, as it is better than anything that came before and I (sincerely) think to myself that I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Claudiu, DAO: Claudiu’s Journal, 8 July 2024
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless
Claudiu, Vineeto & Richard’s Text
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Claudiu’s Reports, Part 2...
