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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Selected Correspondence Pride
VINEETO: It’s strange, I only wrote the sequence of the actualism method the way I did in order to give you confirmation that you are definitely on the spot by choosing sensuousness to concentrate on, whereas for you it “puts a dent in me thinking I am somehow ‘good’ at this.” CLAUDIU: Well there is more to it. I was thrilled to see that I was on the right track – which is indeed indicative of having a good grasp of what I’m doing. But what was injured was my… intellectual pride!! […] In other words my intellectual pride was injured, that it took me so long to see something that was so plainly written and so simple. Of course, thinking about it sensibly, it is understandable. The human condition is very weird and tricky and cunning indeed. But the reaction was valuable to really get this bugger by the throat! […] I’m actually having trouble thinking why I was holding on to this pride now. I eventually just saw that it was just a choice of if I want to continue being that way or not! And I decided that no, I don’t want to be. And that appears to have been the end of it haha. It really felt a lot more dramatic at the time but writing it now it sounds so simple. […] VINEETO: Hi Claudiu, Thank you for explaining the “dent” in detail, and I am pleased you found those features of your psyche to explore satisfactorily and also recognized how they were stacked on top of each other so that you had to discover/ resolve them in sequence. First, a dent in your intellectual pride … wondering why it took you so long to discover the significance of sensuosity.
Maybe you noticed when clicking on the link From this you can see the enlightened ‘Richard’ was similarly hamstrung by dominant passions to give sufficient attention to sensuousness at the time. Maybe this goes some way to at least restore your confidence, rather than pride, in your capacity for sagacity. CLAUDIU: But I was continuing to get frustrated and spinning out, and suddenly I realize that… I was resenting being alive! I dug into it more and I labelled what I was experiencing as that “basic resentment” that Richard talked about identifying way early on, on his path. I was able to compare that feeling of resentment with the superlatively mirificent recent PCE, and … was able to basically just totally reject and get rid of that resentment! […] I contemplated a lot about resentment, it’s not like I ignored the topic. But I really get the sense that I only got rid of this basic resentment now. […] And suddenly it clicked, I would not have admitted that so readily and smoothly if that intellectual pride was still in place! I would be trying to defend my pride instead. So perhaps this explains why I was never really able to get rid of that basic resentment before – because I’d have to admit I didn’t, and I would feel foolish (lol). […] There is a simplicity and peace that is the default now. In the past I always felt like I had to ‘work’ to some degree to stave off spiralling towards feeling bad. But that seems to have ended now. It’s really a lot simpler! […] VINEETO: Underneath this intellectual pride you found a feeling of so far undetected basic resentment, which could not have been discovered without getting rid of this intellectual pride first. And both of them were instrumental for not having discovered the significance of sensuosity earlier. Ha, someone recently compared the actualism method to peeling an onion. This in turn will increase your ability to being naïve because there is no more reputation to lose, or is there? Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO:
JESUSCARLOS: It has been wonderful to come home, after a weekend trip, and read this link you shared, Vineeto On the way back, I was talking to my partner about exactly this. After having read your feedback yesterday
(and Kuba’s VINEETO: Isn’t that wonderful. Yesterday Claudiu reported that he was dismantling his intellectual pride It is correct what you say about indignation and it’s easy to understand intellectually. Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ found it rather a sticky feeling with all its ‘noble’ connotations attached, and first ‘she’ had to acknowledge that there was nothing noble about being indignant and neither did anybody benefit from ‘her’ feeling indignant. JESUSCARLOS: What is truly useful to do is not to feel offended by those threats around me, but to prevent these intellectually unacceptable injustices from affecting me emotionally. And act objectively. Otherwise what is articulated in me is the feeling and desire to take revenge, or to defend myself, or to attack before being attacked. And those are the triggers of continuous stress in the work environment. VINEETO: Yes this is “truly useful” “not to feel offended”, and each time you do feel offended, there is another opportunity to discover something new about yourself. For instance why did what someone said offend you. What ideal is questioned by the other, what belief, even what ‘truth’, what ‘noble’ sentiment to defend? It is fascinating to detect, and then be able to decline, these newly discovered stumbling blocks … and you will see how quickly they diminish to a fraction of what there was at the start of your investigations. After each time discovery you can act more objectively and interrupt the otherwise endless cycle of ‘tit-for-tat’. JESUSCARLOS: How fun it would be not to be affected, and just act from consideration for any human being, looking for the best solution, from the operation of free intelligence. But without becoming emotionally depressed if it is still not possible to achieve the best solution, because we are dealing with human beings with instincts and passions operating. To see the problem objectively, factually and not personally. How fun and beneficial and naive it would be to start dismantling the way of doing politics,
where every means justifies the end. Instead of this ancient wisdom, appreciate and enjoy this only moment of being
alive, as we work to solve the problems of urban management (or anything else). VINEETO: Mmh, yes that is fun and beneficial and naïve, and it is eminently possible to be that … Presently it is wishful thinking but it gives you a wonderful motivation to be attentive to how you feel and what diminishes your feeling good each moment again. JESUSCARLOS: We’ll see how it goes tomorrow! Thank you! VINEETO: It’s a pleasure to talk about my favourite topic. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: Mmh, Richard talks about a “redemptive straw” or “one of several doomsday straws” in combination of a deep foreboding… …I don’t know if this applies. KUBA: Yes it is interesting that resistance, anxiety, stress, fear, dread etc. all these play
little to no role lately, and I got a rather big mouthful of those at one point. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You reported lots of explorations into strong fear, it is excellent that “all these play little to no role lately”. KUBA: So driving home just now I realise that this whole problem only exists because ‘I’ still take ‘myself’ to be the epicentre of existence. That ‘I’ am that important for the whole world to notice that ‘I’ disappeared – here comes the messiah again lol. Looks like there is more to that pride, ‘I’ want to be seen, to be important, and so ‘I’ cement ‘my’ existence. I can see that it is possible to be anonymous, in fact the world wouldn’t even notice. It is more that ‘I’ have a stake in being “someone in particular”. ‘I’ do not wander off into exile because ‘I’ want to remain a ‘someone’ in relation to ‘others’. Going into the wonderland there is only anonymity. VINEETO: More than anonymity, you will no longer exist which includes all ‘your’ emotional and imagination-fuelled memories. The anonymity is an aspect of living in the actual world. ‘You’ will not only cease to exist but when I became actually free I knew I had always been here as me, this flesh-and-blood body – it’s a seamless transition. KUBA: It looks like this is it – ‘I’ am not ready yet to no longer be a ‘someone’. VINEETO: Ha, I can hear you saying that, over and over. But ‘your’ days are numbered nevertheless. KUBA: Of course this makes so much sense, ‘I’ need ‘humanity’ to affirm the ‘who’ that ‘I’ am. In that wonderland there is no one to do that anymore. This is rather silly and yet it seems to be the reason – pride and humility – ‘I’ don’t proceed into exile
because ‘I’ want to be a ‘someone’. VINEETO: Pride and humility are a rich field for investigation, aren’t they. KUBA: But it seems this is not just about vanity, it is more that ‘my’ very existence requires such a mirror. It is like Richard wrote that – Pride and humility stands in the way of ceasing all self-centred activity. But this self-centred activity of maintaining ‘myself’ is a burden for ‘me’. I am happy that I have managed to get this bugger by the throat now. I noticed that even resolving this whole business around being out from control removed some of this burden, with no label to live up to ‘I’ was freed to be more sincere and more naive. VINEETO: This is excellently put “with no label to live up” – and you said it well the other day –
KUBA: Now I see that it is possible to be anonymous – that choice is freely available. VINEETO: Maybe it’s just the way you phrased it – ‘your’ future is not to be living in anonymity – upon becoming free ‘you’ will disappear like Santa Claus in ‘your’ world vanished into thin air many years ago. Santa Claus is not “living in anonymity”. KUBA: Yesterday I had these very fascinating glimpses of what it means to be anonymous, it clarified what the goal is, what actual freedom is like. It is not like what ‘I’ have been imagining at all. It is the end of all self-centred activity, a blessed release into anonymity. VINEETO: Ha, that’s great – it put an end to ‘your’ future imaginings. Just don’t add any new ones such as “the anonymous messiah”. KUBA: Whereas as the messiah, actual freedom would be like ‘my’ final form of recognition
– of ‘being’ – of course this is the completely wrong direction. VINEETO: Yes, it would be, the ultimate feather in ‘your’ cap.
Isn’t it wonderful and confidence-inspiring that actuality is so pure that nothing dirty can get in?
Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: You probably noticed that the way to become more immune to “emotional ups and downs” – both yours and hers – is to be paying particular attention to the seductive lure of affectuous intimacy – JESUSCARLOS: Yes! And I’m having a little trouble here, understanding more clearly the distinction between that sweetness and the “direction of love and its affectuous intimacy (due to a self-centric attractiveness towards feeling affectionate)”. Maybe a good parameter is to detect that sweetness doesn’t require a retribution, it’s all in itself, and love always require payment in back. Am I correct? VINEETO: You probably meant reciprocity because “retribution” means punishment, justice, revenge and tit-for-tat. I agree that love, unless it’s the delusional state of Love Agape, requires mutualness and possessiveness to maintain itself because being a feeling it requires affirmation and confirmation. Whereas when you experience the felicitous advent of naïve intimacy and delight in the pervasive proximity, or immanence, of the other, this very experience is fulfilling in itself and this intimacy is autonomous and unilateral.
JESUSCARLOS: Lol! Don’t know if I get this one right (sometimes I have difficulties in the translation to Spanish, my mother tongue), but it means something like losing all fear or shame of being as one is and letting others see that, despite the risk of being classified as what in modern psychiatric terms means total narcissism? Of course I understand it doesn’t mean let passionate impulses run free across the meadow. It refers rather to allowing oneself to think about one’s own well-being in absolute terms, regardless of the desires or whims of others. VINEETO: You have to remember that Richard in the above quote was referring to a fully deluded enlightened ‘being’. Hence what he described was that ‘he’ then gradually recognized the utter ridiculousness of upholding ‘his’ dignity in the light of the narcissistic nature of his passionate feelings of grandeur – being the Absolute and thus the latest saviour of humankind. It does not mean “losing all fear or shame of being as one is and letting others see
that, despite the risk of being classified as what in modern psychiatric terms means total narcissism” What it can mean for you, practically, is to recognize that whatever your egocentric good and bad feelings – such as feelings of pride/ humility, self-importance, feeling hurt/ insulted – want you to believe, acknowledge that they are just feelings and not facts – and when you are back to feeling good you can verify this fact for yourself and move in the direction of being less ‘self’-centric. For instance –
It is rather the last two point (5) and (6) which are applicable for everyone – a sense of humour and “a delightful resurgence of the earlier felicity/ innocuity which again brought about, in combination with sensuousness, an outstandingly ingenuous sense of amazement, marvel and wonder”. JESUSCARLOS: Thank you so much for the full quote. I didn’t know it before. It’s wonderful, especially considering how difficult it was for Richard to emerge from enlightenment. And as always, thank you so much for your retro and support V. It is invaluable. VINEETO: You are very welcome. I posted the quote more for fun and historic reference. It was indeed extremely difficult to emerge from enlightenment but now a precedent has been set so that nobody needs to follow in Richard’s footsteps, and the danger of becoming fully deluded could well have disappeared from the horizon. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto, Firstly, I am starting to look at the “why” would be so invested in rejecting effort over time when mastering anything? Is it simply a two year old tantrum? Without actually being originally a tantrum? I think it’s in the class of all those primordial type feelings and morals which form into religion, as you were writing about. This is such a powerful paradigm to see all of the elaborate stories I tell myself about who I am! VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Ok, you found “all those primordial type feelings and morals which form into religion” – firm beliefs that look like the unviable truth. Yet when you say “I think”, which is not the same as saying ‘I know’, you show that your contemplative exploration can go further until you reach the point when you can say “it clicked” – possibly even when such a “clicked” realisation can lead to the disappearance of the hold that these firm beliefs have on your life. ANDREW: It seems to me that it’s in the class of feelings which are very egalitarian, giving rise to the injunctions of humility etc. Being excellent at something naturally can’t be helped, but trying and practicing and putting in effort seems to be cheating. It sounds ridiculous, because it is ridiculous! VINEETO: Perhaps you are not sure (“it seems”). Keep exploring until you get to the bottom of it. Regarding those so-called “egalitarian” feelings such as “humility” – these words describe virtuous feelings, part of the ‘good’ desirable feelings, those that are loving and trusting and virtue-signalling. As you have probably been finding out during your life so far, those are just as detrimental to your (and others’) wellbeing as those more easily detectable hostile and fearful feelings. Here is Richard’s comment on humility, which is merely pride standing on its head –
ANDREW: However, there is the aspect that excellence of skill for the purpose of feeling better than others, or seeking love, fame, recognition, also goes against some primordial “levelling” morality. An ancient “tall poppy syndrome”. Perhaps it’s just the modern version. I am Australian after all. VINEETO: Ah, I understand now the uncommon directive that “putting in effort seems to be cheating” and that only natural excellence is permitted. It is there to prevent pride – of course, if you never achieve anything by not putting in effect, you have never anything to be proud of! What you can do instead of repressing your pride by being ineffective in your actions is to gain some dignity and autonomy by choosing a different path to the Tried and Failed altogether with the intention to become happy and harmless. Then remember to pat yourself on the back whenever you succeed in finding and dismantling an obstacle to feeling good and discovering how you tick –
The beginning of this correspondence also clarifies the issue of pride and humility. By the way, there is no such thing as a “primordial “levelling” morality” – the “primordial morality” is the law of the jungle. Morals and ethics were put in place to curb the worst excesses of the instinctual passions. I highly recommend reading both “the Formation and Persistence of the Social Identity” It can help you to take another look at your “class of feelings which are very egalitarian” including their impractical “injunctions” and possibly replace them with more sensible options. While equity and parity prevail in Terra Actualis, these clearly don’t happen via repressing pride or stifling sensible action, but by enjoying and appreciating being alive and being naiveté (liking yourself and liking one’s fellow human beings). Please remember, only when pure intent is dedicatorily in place – as an overriding/ overarching life-devotional goal which takes absolute precedence over all else – can you begin whittling away of the otherwise essential general societal/ cultural conditioning. Else it would be both harmful to you and others to haphazardly switch around your morals/ethics from one “ridiculous” lot, as you called them, to another.
ANDREW: Thanks for the encouragement. It is really giving me the
space to look at this from a new perspective. VINEETO: You are welcome, Andrew. There is so much more to discover about the wide and wondrous path, and you seem now to be ready to clear the workbench and start afresh … and already have some success. Cheers Vineeto
JON: Back to the better
part of our conversation. I feel a renewal lately. At 48, I am experiencing a mid-life crisis. It is too late for me
to be a family man and a successful professional or businessman. It seems taking pride in always being mirthful and
never feeling pressured takes the sting away from missing out on having kids and not having a big network of friends
or enough luxury money to travel on the drop of a dime or just completely retire right now if I wanted. Without that
sting, which can cause some gloominess, it is easier to feel blithesome. VINEETO: Well, if pride is the source of your ‘blithesomeness’ then with this motivation only actualism is not for you – the actualism method is designed to diminish all ‘good’ and bad feelings in order to experience the felicitous and innocuous feelings. Pride is a ‘good’ feeling, whilst hurt pride or unfulfilled pride leads to feeling bad. I recommend Richard’s article “Peace on Earth in this Life-Time” Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: I recommend Richard’s article “Peace on Earth in this Life-Time” (snipped by Jon: “as an introduction for what actualism is about, and perhaps other of Richard’s articles JON: Will do. VINEETO: Hi Jon, A waited a couple of days before my reply to give you time to read, digest and perhaps comment on Richard’s articles I had recommended. * VINEETO: Well, if pride is the source of your ‘blithesomeness’ then with this motivation only JON: Emphasis added. How blithe could the feeling be if pride was any part of its source? Maybe none. Idk. Maybe a tad. Not sure. But if pride was a motivating factor into resetting so as to allow happiness and harmless then is that not a different story? Here is the full text of what I said –
You clearly said that you want to “cultivate a sense of being behooved to be happy and
harmless” and “valuing happy and harmlessness as a virtue to be proud of might help”. Perhaps a re-read of the correspondence Richard had with you about pride 13 years ago might assist in understanding. Richard explains in intricate detail the difference in progress regarding consciousness versus progress in materialistic success. (Heavily edited for brevity) –
I added the emphases because I noticed your tendency to summarize what you read only at a glance, which more often than not leads to you not comprehending of what is being conveyed. When wanting to understand about a brand-new paradigm in human consciousness, an actual freedom from the human condition, quick summaries are useless because you merely paste the template of materialism/ spiritualism over what you read. Such incorrect summaries rather signify a lack of vital interest. Cheers Vineeto
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
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