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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Selected Correspondence Infinitude
KUBA: Wow yes I saw this just a few minutes ago, I was getting ready and looking in the mirror. I saw that where this body exists time has no duration, there is such an incredible safety to this. Whereas where ‘I’ exist, across past, present and future it is so precarious. It was so clear experientially that nothing could ever go wrong where time has no duration and yet intellectually ‘I’ cannot quite wrap ‘my’ mind around why. This is incredible because I could never quite grasp the eternity of time, space was somehow easier to comprehend and I previously glimpsed that the space of this universe is infinite, as in having no edges and no outside. But to comprehend that this moment is eternal, that time has no duration means finding something that exists outside of the real world time span altogether. It does not fit in with any descriptions revolving around the past, present and future because it exists outside of that construct altogether. It is in itself the actuality ascertained apperceptively and it is beyond wonderful! It reminds me of Geoffrey writing that ‘he’ saw the ‘known way’ as the dangerous and the unknown way as safe,
‘I’ am the danger, where ‘I’ exist precariously across past, present and future. This body exists so safely
where time has no duration. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is truly wonderful, “beyond wonderful”. The way feeling being ‘Vineeto’ eventually understood actual time was to compare it to space – an arena, like a large football field, where events happen but the field always remains. Actual time is the arena, events happen and ‘I’, being emotional/ instinctually engaged with the events, take them for time itself. Because ‘I’ do know that this body was born and will die one day, and ‘I’ desperately yearn for permanency, for immortality … ‘I’ am too important to ever not be here. Yet once ‘I’ go in abeyance it is patently obvious that ‘I’ am not the centre around which everything revolves but that there is this wide open actuality, infinite and eternal and utterly still and real-world time has no existence. It is utterly safe and still. KUBA: This is yet another reason why actualism is experiential because all words have been invented by feeling beings and therefore on their own they cannot quite convey actuality, they will simply go around in circles and never reveal the actual nature of this universe. Eternal will be taken to mean a very long lapse of time or infinite a very long stretch of space and yet the actual experience of infinitude is outside of those descriptions. All of those real world descriptions still infer some ultimate movement/distance to time/space. Whereas actual time and space exist within the stillness of infinitude. Even writing the word “within” seems to screw it up. As in that stillness is the very infinite
and eternal nature of this universe. VINEETO: Yes, I had the same thought when I read it – the word “within” didn’t seem to be quite right and then your last sentence expressed it exactly. Only someone experiencing (or having experienced) actuality can say this with utter confidence. It is indeed experiential. SCOUT: May I ask – what does this mean? It feels directly in opposition to the Richard
quote you shared in Henry’s thread KUBA (to Scout): I’ll have a go at this in the meantime “You have all the time in the universe” is referring specifically to one’s experience as a flesh and blood body only, one exists where time has no duration. It is impossible to ever ‘run out of time’ as time does not move in actuality. Whereas as an identity ‘I’ am locked out of eternal time and instead ‘I’ exist precariously across the past, present and future. This is where ‘I’ am always managing, anticipating and running out of time. As it is always this moment, this body does not move through time like the identity moves across the past, present and future. Rather this body exists securelyineternal time. In eternal time there is no distance to be travelled between ‘then’ and ‘now’ as the immediate is the ultimate, whereas ‘I’ am forever shifting between these thin slivers of ‘real time’, desperately trying to hold, manage and anticipate each one. I think I have just answered in part my own question – of why is it that where time has no
duration there is such safety. Because all this painful psychological/psychic activity which comes from ‘managing
time’ (whilst being forever locked out of actual time) ceases when one exists in eternal time. Everything is in its
place already as one is not actually going anywhere or coming from somewhere. VINEETO: Yes, one can never run out of time in actuality, it is always now, and I am always here and the universe being perfect and pure everything is already perfect. To answer Scout’s question more in detail, here is a quote from Richard’s journal –
Cheers Vineeto
ALEXANDER: This is off topic but I can’t find a post you made that I read recently where you were quoting Richard about infinitude. I always found the idea that you could experience infinitude perplexing but the quote you used made it much clearer. He was saying how everywhere is anywhere and anywhere is everywhere. And how stillness is the essential character of the universe. If you could share that again I would appreciate it. VINEETO: Perhaps this is the correspondence you are looking for
RICHARD: G’day Claudiu, You are, presumably, referring to this:
It is better explained in ‘Richard’s Journal’. Viz.:
Thus if you think of it, initially, as the vast stillness which is ‘everywhere all at once’ (as in, there is no centre to
physical infinitude) then, when following a train of thought about the audio-taped dialogue regarding the actual experiencing of that vast
stillness – where matter-as-energy is the source of everything apparent (i.e., matter-as-mass) – as being a flesh-and-blood body’s
essential disposition it will make more sense.
ALEXANDER: And I was wondering if infinitude was something you experienced as soon as you
became actually free or if it happened when you became fully free? VINEETO: From ‘Vineeto’s’ PCEs I knew that the universe is infinite in space and eternal in time.
However, to experience this in its full extent I had to lose a few more boundaries in consciousness in order to
experience the full extent of this infinite and eternal universe. I have written about it in “From
Basic Freedom to Full Actual Freedom (3)” Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: So, if I can frame this as just “having a chat”, instead of what it actually is, a public declaration, (this is searchable public post, and not a private conversation), if I could for the sake of what I am going to type, pretend mutually that it’s a “safe space” (which it is not) then, we can read what I am about to write as if tomorrow neither of us will remember it, because we usually have conversations to be heard and to connect, rather that leave with a dossier on “he said this, and thus… I am on his side, or the other side.” Preamble out of the way, here is the central thought: This iteration of the universe sucks. I really felt genuinely whole saying and thinking this today. A few who know me from before the 2015 trip (which I skipped) will potentially remember how obsessed I am about the words “infinite” and “eternal”. A long time before Actualism, these were the two words that shaped my core ideas. It dawned on me today that this is not the ultimate form of the universe. There is no ultimate form. (This is not a declaration, imagination is key here; we are just chatting). There is, by definition of “infinite” and “eternal” no ultimate form. I felt whole just saying out loud, this universe (this manifestation of infinite and eternal existence) sucks. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, As you would know, actualism is experiential. When there is no identity, either in a PCE or when actual free, the universe is experienced as it factually is – infinite and eternal. It is ‘you’, the identity which creates and experiences the self-centric limitation and boundary to then fill this limited experience with imagination and beliefs/ concepts. As such your “by definition” statement is without substance – it is either philosophical or imaginary, or both. ANDREW: I pushed back at Vineeto about the statement “what I can eat, and what could eat me”. I understand the reference, but found it absurd. I know I can kill and eat chickens. Fish. Give me a sharp stick, and I can have a go at rabbits, sheep, all sorts of creatures. I can kill them and eat them. Yesterday, as I thought about this, I felt completely “whole” when I said out loud “that sucks”. VINEETO: By now, you made it clear that your whole message is an emotional reaction to what I wrote to you six days ago –
I understand from your ‘non-declaration’ that when you say “I pushed back at Vineeto about the statement” means that you do not question the fact of how instinctive/ instinctual passions operate but that you strongly express your displeasure/ resentment about the fact that it is so. You are riling against the way the universe, in this case sentient beings, operate and function. ANDREW: So, what is the point? It’s the infinitude! The infinitude is what is fundamentally enjoyable. This particular express of the infinitude does suck. But, the infinitude itself, the fundamental and essential existence of existence, is essentially what Richard called “pure intent”. Something fundamentally beyond the fact that the “red in tooth and claw” “dog eat dog” “what can I eat and what can eat me” circle of “life” in this out folding of infinite possibilities, is enjoyable. It is able to be experienced perfectly. Even though this current universe requires me to eat other living things, the infinitude itself, is not “tied to” this way of existence. It is existence. It is infinite and eternal existence. VINEETO: There is a fundamental misunderstanding of what infinitude means [infinitude: infinite extent, amount, duration, etc.; a boundless expanse; an unlimited time; (Oxford English Dictionary)] – there is also a fundamental misunderstanding of what pure intent means but that is a topic for another conversation. This short quote from Richard might explain infinitude (there is more in Richard’s selected correspondence on the topic) –
As you say at the beginning of this message “this iteration of the universe sucks”, what you consider infinitude is ‘your’ imagined “iteration” of infinitude, experienced and expressed through the lens of your identity and resentment. The actual physical infinitude, boundless in expanse and time, does not have “iterations”, where suddenly different laws of physics operate, imagined perhaps of the nature that you wouldn’t find objectionable. As such your statement “the infinitude is what is fundamentally enjoyable” is altogether a product of your imagination, an ‘infinitude’ which has enjoyable “iterations” and those which “suck”. ANDREW: Now, so this post has some depth, rather than me (in typical fashion) fill in the gaps in my own head, assuming everyone else is in my head, let me spell it out; I will die, this is the only life that I will ever have. This universe does suck, it suck a lot! But, the infinitude itself, is enjoyable. DNA, Stars, the entire brutality of 4 kelvin being the temperature of the measurable universe, the absence of life in general, and the brutality of the life we know; it’s just one of an infinite potential ways the infinitude can exist. We already know this. We can already imagine a far better way of existing. I could rattle of a handful of ways this universe could be better. I would have to limit myself to a handful. What is the point? This brutal existence, with creatures eating each other, is just another of the infinite ways the universe can … universe. VINEETO: To say “We already know this. We can already imagine a far better way of existing” in one breath is an oxymoron – just because you can imagine something does not mean it is factual. It does not mean you “know this” for a fact, else there was no need to imagine. You already have filled in “the gaps in my own head”, suggesting that the universe you experience is “just one of an infinite potential ways the infinitude can exist”. In other words, you find your idea of infinitude “enjoyable”, while you find the emotional/ passional reality which ‘you’, the identity, experiences, anything but enjoyable. This quote might be informative –
ANDREW: We get the opportunity to free ourselves in this moment, from the very simple and
apparent fact this example of the universe, sucks. VINEETO: Whenever you allow your emotions full reign, as in this post, intelligence doesn’t get much of a chance to operate. By starting with an imagined premise that there are “infinite potential ways” of ‘universe-iterations’ you just dive deeper into imagination and metaphysics. There is indeed “the opportunity to free ourselves” for those who are interested – allow the current strong feelings of resentment subside by neither pushing them away (repressing) nor feeding them (expressing) until you get back to feeling good. Then intelligence will get a word in edgeways. Here is what Richard has to say about dealing with resentment [resentment: an indignant sense of injury or insult received or perceived, a sense of grievance … (Oxford Dictionary)] – best read when feeling good –
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Also I think I have got the flavour now, of pure intent, it is exactly as those words describe – “a genuinely occurring stream of benevolence and benignity that originates in the perfect and vast stillness that is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe”. Although I don’t know if ‘I’ can experientially tell (maybe in rare glimpses but not in general) that second part – “that originates in the perfect and vast stillness that is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe”. As in ‘I’ can experientially detect a “genuinely occurring stream of benevolence and benignity” which is not of ‘me’ in any kind of way, but ‘I’ am not experientially aware of the infinitude of the universe to clearly know that it is coming from there. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, When you experience “a genuinely occurring stream of benevolence and benignity” generally ‘you’ are temporarily in abeyance, hence the vital importance of the golden clew (the intimate connection to pure intent via rememoration) when ‘I’ return. However, nowadays pure intent can also be experienced from within the human condition (i.e., as a feeling ‘being’) when pure intent is experienced via that purity personified (i.e. those fully free human beings), reported by ‘Peter’, ‘Vineeto’ and ‘Pamela’ as “a sweetness that was palpable” – plus how ‘he’/ ‘she’ was “literally being bathed in this sweetness”.
In regards to “the perfect and vast stillness that is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe”, I remember feeling being ‘Vineeto’ only had a few PCEs in which “the vast stillness that is the essential character of the infinitude of the universe” were experienced but it was enough to make it indisputably clear to ‘her’ that there is no higher power operating inside or ‘outside’ the universe (it also made it obvious from the start that freedom is in ‘my’ hands alone – that there is no entity/ presence/ deity which will set me free. You can probe into the vast stillness yourself – best when having a ‘self’-less experience – and explore going deeper into the vast stillness by appreciating in wondrous amazement the fullness of this stillness. Richard explained “the actual experience of the infinitude of space and time is to be ‘everywhere all at once” this way –
As you can see, “the last one – being limitless as an actuality – remained unconsummated” until 28 August 2011. KUBA: Either way there is this genuinely occurring stream of benevolence and benignity which is not of ‘me’ and as such it is completely unpolluted by ‘me’. And it’s weird because the experience of it is indeed like a benefaction or a blessing, so when ‘I’ am experiencing that flavour there is no question at all that it is a safe thing to pass the baton to. VINEETO: What you call “to pass the baton to” is ‘you’ giving permission to let life live you by allowing the ‘doer’, the ‘controller,’ to go into abeyance and allow the naïve ‘beer’ to be ascendant (agreeing to being out-from-control).
Cheers Vineeto
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
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