ALAN: Weird stuff has been going on this evening and I know none of it is real. Or rather it is real, very real, but only something ‘I’ am creating. From heart palpitations, pressure in the head (like it is about to explode), shivering, melancholy, floating sensations, light headedness – and underlying it all a nothingness, sense of meaningless, a vast doubt (knowledge?) that it is all just me making it up. Is this just ‘me’ trying to pretend there is a process going on or is there a process going on? Or is there a process going on and ‘I’ pretend to know there is a process going on, in an attempt to cover up the process going on.

VINEETO: It is interesting you should just now describe this experience! It reminds me of a weird and fascinating experience I had just two nights ago. I had had a light smoke, when I suddenly started to feel nauseous and very dizzy in the head. The physical symptoms came along with an acute fear to throw up, to black out, in short, to lose control over my body and my life.

While Peter kept inquiring if there maybe was also some fear involved, not just a physical reaction, I was desperately trying to obtain control over my body. At the same time I was, of course, suspicious that it was all a play up of the ‘self’ trying to survive, but didn’t know how to deal with it.

When I finally laid down on the floor and ‘surrendered’ to the option of being unconscious and was actually getting interested and thrilled by the possibility of observing the experience, it very quickly disappeared like a ghost. It left me astounded about the power of ‘reality’, the vividness of the experience that fear created with all the ingredients of a ‘serious’ disease, becoming unconscious.

Only by accepting it as an adventure and at the same time doubting its actuality it lost its power over me, leaving me battered but proud like after a victorious, well-fought battle. The next night it happened again but was all much less dramatic, the temptation was there to delve into the fear, the physical symptoms were ready to emerge again, but this time I didn’t believe in the actual danger and it quickly went.

Then appeared another temptation – to divert into a journey into the psychic world, with all its ‘deep and meaningful’ insights and glorious ‘enlightenments’. But I had explored that area enough, I wanted to see what actuality there is without fear and beyond or beneath the psychic world. What I found is a magic, a stillness, unemotional, without excitement and strangely enough without ‘form’. The best description I could come up with is the definition we have here for an idiot: ‘All the stubbies are there for the six-pack, but the plastic between them is missing that would keep them together!’

Senses are operating but nobody is seeing or hearing, and then there is no difference between me and the desk that I am seeing, no distance, no ‘I’. Last night I experienced life beyond ‘being’, in a strange way hollow, but very alive and sensate. Now I can slowly and diligently examine the ‘plastic between the stubbies’, what it consists of, because recognized and understood it disappears. Sometimes it consists of fear, sometimes a vague feeling, sometimes a sense of continuity, of having past and future and definition...

I am immensely fascinated by your experiences and look forward to your next mail.

*

VINEETO: This weekend I have been ‘busy’ on and off with being sick. Listless and a bit weaker I would have preferred not to have a cold. But then, as the weekend slowly went by being as delicious as ever, the walk on the beach as delightful I turned my attention to the famous sentence: How am I experiencing this moment of being alive? Now I this body is obviously very busy getting better, and isn’t it fascinating how it feels when inside the army is fighting in different places against the invading viruses ... and isn’t the pouring rain making a wonderful sound on the roof?! So then the complaint turned into an observing fascination without any emotion or wanting it different, just experiencing the facts and events of me, this body and my surrounding. Back here again!

*

VINEETO to Alan: A week later I had another strong fear-attack, which I observed fascinated and rather unemotionally. My whole upper torso became numb, blood drained out of my head, heart, chest and arms. There wasn’t enough blood in the brain, so my vision had blind stripes, very curious. It took me a minute to figure out what was happening. I went along with it at first, thrilled and fascinated by the prospect of watching myself, my body, die, but a short while later common sense started to set in. If this was the beginning of a physical heart-attack then this was the wrong way, a ‘dead-end’, as Peter just said. Upon this understanding, the symptoms slowly subsided.

Trying to understand those experiences in hindsight, I would say that on both occasions I had a certain pushy-ness, an almost violent attitude to progress at all costs, no matter what will happen, ‘I’ want freedom now and ‘I’ want to make it happen. I can see that this urging only increased the fear, making the obstacle bigger than before. I understood that the ending of ‘me’ has to be 100% voluntary, ‘I’ have to agree boots and all, and doubt or hesitancy cannot just be brushed over. So I took another look around for my possible objections.

1. Fear number one had been: what, if I get accidentally enlightened? For that exploration I went into this grand fuzzy feeling, observed how it expands in the chest, how it swamps the brain with waves of love and bliss until one loses all common sense and is convinced that one is one with it all. When I didn’t fall for the seductive power of this feeling the rush of glory subsided and plunged me into instinctual fear. But that experience to remain ‘unseduced’ was enough to give me the confidence that I won’t be struck by, or stuck in, enlightenment, whatever happens.
2. Fear number two was: will I be able to physically survive? Well, I knew that Richard did, and he had described some quite dramatic experiences in his time before enlightenment. But I also had my own peak-experiences which convinced me that I am very capable of surviving without the ‘support’ of the primitive survival mechanism – on the contrary! As I had described before, when the physical symptoms of the adrenaline rush were developing towards what felt like a heart-attack, my commonsense decided that this was silly, and I could easily decide not to follow that drama any further.

ALAN to No 7: ‘Exploring the basic instinct of fear is not only fascinating, it is probably an essential step on the way to an actual freedom, so I would not wish to discourage your investigation. However, it is not without its dangers. I reached a stage, not long ago, where proceeding further would, I am fairly certain, have resulted in my physical demise.’

GARY to Alan: If you would be willing to share this, I would be interested in knowing more about what happened to you of an adverse nature in your investigation into fear. My interest is also not only regarding the dangers of deeply investigating fear but also, along with it, there is the relation of physical health and virtual or actual freedom.

VINEETO: I like your question. I can tell you a bit about my experiences with my health in the process of the last three years compared to my beliefs about health in my spiritual years.

Although my general health was always good, I had a variety of discomforts mainly arising from stress, tension, anxiety and a poor and unhygienic diet in my years in India. In addition, being a strict vegetarian for ethical and spiritual reasons most likely caused some dietary imbalances that added to minor symptoms such as fatigue, general weakness of the immune system, digestion problems and food cravings.

Due to the overall superstitious atmosphere in the spiritual community and my own gullibility, I believed in and tried out many alternative healing practices such as Chinese medicine, acupuncture, Indian Aryuvedic medicine, pulse diagnosis, iridology, colour healings, kirlian photography, aura cleanings, kinesiology, chakra healing, homeopathy, energy readings, colonics, cranio-sacral massages, Aura Soma’s coloured waters, Bach-flower remedies, etc., etc. ‘Health experts’ were popping up weekly and whoever I booked a session with to check me out found a different thing wrong with me that needed fixing – blocked kidney meridian, feeble liver flow, weakened chi, overworked gall-bladder, food allergies, dirty charkas, subtly locked or twisted spine, weak intestines, black spot in the aura – you name it. As the diagnosed ailments varied with each practitioner, I became quite worried about my alleged health-problems. Most of these alternative practitioners professed to detect the potential for the ‘disease’ before it manifests as obvious physical symptoms and therefore there was no need to have any symptoms other than ‘low energy’ to be a potential patient who needed therapy and (natural!) medicine.

Well, when I came across actualism and decided to investigate my beliefs and emotions, the superstitions about alleged health deficiencies were the first to go, together with my belief in vegetarianism and being a health food freak. It was such a delight to hoe into a good piece of steak, fish, chicken or bacon, to enjoy the superb taste of fresh-brewed coffee without any guilt, to drop all the vitamin supplements that I had taken out of faith and fear, and to simply consider myself healthy unless there were demonstrable symptoms that indicated otherwise.

This story is not to be taken as a general statement against alternative medicine, which may well work for some people, it is merely a personal report about the benefits that I experienced when I replaced my beliefs and superstitions with an assessment based on what is silly and what is sensible.

The other major improvement of my well-being, both physical and emotional, was due to investigating my social identity and all the ensuing emotions, tensions and fears. Sure, sometimes while investigating a particularly fearful topic, I would have a stomach pain, a head ache or tense shoulders, but the more I got rid of ‘who I think and feel I am’, the more I also rid myself of the strain that the beliefs, feelings and emotions had on this flesh-and-blood body. With increased awareness and common sense I can now easily figure out which of the physical symptoms are psychosomatic, due to temporary emotional stress, and which symptoms need (scientifically proved) medical treatment. Further, I have learned that to be sick and then being fearful, upset, resentful or miserable about being sick would only make matters worse. Overall, I can say that the best I could do for my health was to get rid of my beliefs, superstitions, peer-pressure, societal influence, moods and feelings.

GARY: The investigation into the basic instinct of fear, which I have experienced as ‘nerve-wracking’, to say the least, must have inevitable physiological concomitants.

VINEETO: As Peter has laid out in his introduction to Actual Freedom and the actualist’s map, on the path to Actual Freedom it is vital to investigate and eliminate one’s social identity first, in order to be able to tackle the basic instincts of fear, aggressions, nurture and desire. Trying to investigate one’s basic instinct of fear without a thorough exploration and abolition of one’s moral and ethical values, one’s pride, virtue, shame, guilt and social and spiritual restrictions and superstitions is an exercise that can only lead to frustration, failure and more fear.

Further, one only needs to investigate feelings, emotions and deep-seated passions as they occur and arise in the process of running the question ‘How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?’ If one tackles the immediate issues that arise, the topics to be investigated and the discoveries to be made naturally occur in perfect order – the outer layers first and then one dives deeper and deeper, as more of ‘me’ is revealed. The next thing to look at always comes by itself, in perfect time, when ‘I’ am ready. This way, fuelled by my sincere intent, the unfolding of the process happens by itself rather than ‘me’ trying to control the process to suit ‘me’. The path to freedom abounds with serendipitous events such that the next issue, the next situation always occurs in time, on time.

GARY: As I am not free from fear, I can only imagine what happens to the body when it is expunged of instinctual fear. If fear is greatly reduced or diminished, through a state of Virtual Freedom, I would think there would be a tremendous benefit that ensues to the physiological organism. Whilst naturally there are diseases that arise of a viral nature or due to unhealthy life-styles, or even cancer, I am wondering what happens to people when the feeling-affective faculty has been expunged. I could further imagine that this might work both ways: both positive and negative. You seem to be pointing to some negative effects and dangers to the process.

VINEETO: In the process of investigating the Human Condition in oneself, one first and above all applies one’s common sense to each and every situation. Common sense will only operate when intelligence is freed of one’s beliefs about right and wrong, good and bad and spiritual virtues and values. In practical terms, common sense meant that I made sure that my physical needs such as food, work, comfortable living circumstances, sufficient money as well as physical safety and health were taken care of. From this solid basis I then could venture into the dark areas of my psyche and rock the boat of beliefs and emotions.

On a few occasions, when encountering intense fear, I have experienced light-headedness, nausea, almost fainting, numbness in the limbs, even heart palpitations – and within a safe range that is all part of the adventure of exploring the deep seated emotions. However, whenever I was pushing too hard for quick results, due to my desire, aggression and impatience, I noticed that it was the ‘I’ producing and increasing those symptoms and I then realized that did not make any sense to endanger my physical well-being. In our correspondence, Alan and I have called these symptoms the ‘drama queen’ in action, and once one has seen through such a scenario it is actually quite hilarious. Becoming aware that ‘I’ am creating, imagining and continuing the drama is bound to spoil the plot. This does not mean that I won’t fall for it when the ‘drama queen’ appears next time, but each time it will be a little bit less convincing. Encountering and exploring one’s psychological and psychic identity can produce weird symptoms, to say the least, and it is vital and sensible to remember that Actual Freedom is about freeing the actual physical flesh-and-blood body from the software program of the psychological and psychic entity inside. Therefore indulging in anything that endangers one’s physical health is certainly to be heading in the wrong direction. Life was meant to be easy.

As a rule of thumb one could say that it is always the ‘self’ that throws up the smokescreen of such physical symptoms in order to divert from the issue of the investigation, which is ‘me’, my beliefs, my identity, my feelings, my emotions and my instinctual passions. As Richard terms it, ‘I’ am lost, lonely, frightened and very, very cunning, and it is a fascinating ride to uncover all the trick and ploys that ‘I’ am capable of.

GARY: Any further information that you or others could impart would be greatly appreciated. If such information exists already in the archives, I would appreciate you directing me to it.

VINEETO: There is not much information about this subject on the web site yet. You can have a look at the glossary term ‘body’ and the related correspondence to see if you find some useful information.

Once one starts questioning one’s beliefs and emotions and replacing them with facts and an assessment of what is silly and sensible, any health issues will automatically be judged by the same criteria. To be actually here in this moment in time and to remove everything that prevents one from being happy and harmless now is simply the most sensible thing to do. This body and brain is very capable of looking after itself and ‘I’, the identity and ‘me’, the survival instincts can only spoil that healthy sensibility.

GARY: It seems like without adrenalin-fuelled reactions, one thinks much more clearly and rationally about sensible courses of action. Considered action to address the situation is then the result. One is then neither anxiously fleeing nor aggressively attacking the perceived locus of the threat. The more attentive I am at recognizing my own life situation and reactions to everyday events, the more I think that the ‘fight-or-flight’ reaction is totally unnecessary.

VINEETO: Yes, and it is remarkable how very little real threat to my both health and my safety there is when my perception is not clouded by instinctual ‘self’-preservation and when my life-style is not run by senseless pursuit of power, wealth, fame or excitement – in one word ‘self’-importance.

GARY: The only situation I can think of where adrenalin would serve a useful purpose would be some great calamity, where assistance or help is needed immediately: for instance, if I vehicle were to roll over someone and they were trapped and could not get out, someone under the influence of adrenalin might perform feats of superhuman strength, whereas the absence of this emotive force would require other measures that would not be readily available.

VINEETO: As I don’t know much about what chemical reactions happen in the brain, I looked up the Encyclopaedia Britannica –

‘Adrenalin has effects upon the nervous system, which are recognizable subjectively in man by feelings of anxiety and of increased mental alertness’. Encyclopaedia Britannica

From the word ‘effects’ I conclude that an increased output of adrenalin and other chemical neuro-transmitters does not necessarily require feelings of anxiety for ‘increased mental alertness’ to occur. In other words, the effects can be two separate effects and it is quite apparent that in a dangerous situation one functions better if the affective reaction can be eliminated. Richard’s report about his response to an emergency situation – ‘necessity provides all the calorific energy required’ – seems to confirm my hypothesis.

VINEETO to Gary: As I don’t know much about what chemical reactions happen in the brain, I looked up the Encyclopaedia Britannica –

‘Adrenalin has effects upon the nervous system, which are recognizable subjectively in man by feelings of anxiety and of increased mental alertness’. Encyclopaedia Britannica

From the word ‘effects’ I conclude that an increased output of adrenalin and other chemical neuro-transmitters does not necessarily require feelings of anxiety for ‘increased mental alertness’ to occur. In other words, the effects can be two separate effects and it is quite apparent that in a dangerous situation one functions better if the affective reaction can be eliminated.  Richard’s report about his response to an emergency situation – ‘necessity provides all the calorific energy required’ – seems to confirm my hypothesis.

RESPONDENT: I’ve said it before, but it’s one of my favourites, so ... The number one drug of abuse in the world today is adrenaline. It’s a natural food of the human condition.

VINEETO: The number one ‘abuse’ is the animal survival programming, the very source of the production of adrenalin. Therefore the salient point for an actualist is not about abuse of adrenalin, but tackling the drug-factory – one’s very ‘being’ rooted in the instinctual survival passions.

Richard’s recently related story makes it very clear that the hypothesis I was offering above was wrong and that the instinctual passions and the production of adrenalin are inextricably intertwined – no passions, no production of adrenalin.

Richard: A classic example of this occurred whilst strolling along a country lane one fine morning with the sunlight dancing its magic on the glistening dew-drops suspended from the greenery everywhere; these eyes are delighting in the profusion of colour and texture and form as the panorama unfolds; these ears are revelling in the cadence of tones as their resonance and timbre fills the air; these nostrils are rejoicing in the abundance of aromas and scents drifting fragrantly all about; this skin is savouring the touch, the caress, of the early springtime ambience; this mind, other than the sheer enjoyment and appreciation of being alive as this flesh and blood body, is ambling along in neutral – there is no thought at all and conscious alertness is null and void – when all-of-a-sudden the easy gait has ceased happening.

These eyes instantly shift from admiring the dun-coloured cows in a field nearby and are looking downward to the front and see the green and black snake, coiling up on the road in readiness to act, which had not only occasioned the abrupt halt but, it is discovered, had initiated a rapid step backwards ... an instinctive response which, had the instinctual passions that are the identity been in situ, could very well have triggered off freeze-fight-flee chemicals.

There is no perturbation whatsoever (no wide-eyed staring, no increase in heart-beat, no rapid breathing, no adrenaline-tensed muscle tone, no sweaty palms, no blood draining from the face, no dry mouth, no cortisol-induced heightened awareness, and so on) as with the complete absence of the rudimentary animal ‘self’ in the primordial brain the limbic system in general, and the amygdala in particular, have been free to do their job – the oh-so-vital startle response – both efficaciously and cleanly. Richard, The Actual Freedom Trust Mailing List, No 32 (25), 16.2.2003

RESPONDENT: Yesterday I was reading (in your selected correspondence on sex) where Richard said that chemicals ‘rise and subside’ but now he experiences them as a (meaningless) sensation, not an instinct or emotion. Is this accurate, that (with him) the sensory input still triggers chemicals but the meaning-association is cut off? Previously I understood him to mean the chemicals were cut off as well.

VINEETO: I don’t know if this is the piece of correspondence you are referring to – it is the only one in my selected correspondence on sex that contains ‘chemicals rising and subsiding’ –

[Vineeto]: I am reminded of Richard’s writing:

Co-Respondent: I’m not clear as to how one eliminates the instincts after one has become intimate with them and then has a 100% commitment. Does this happen on its own or is there something that I need to do?

Richard: It happens on its own in that, as ‘I’ am the instinctual passions and the instinctual passions are ‘me’, there is no way that ‘I’ can end ‘me’. What ‘I’ do is that ‘I’ deliberately and consciously and with knowledge aforethought set in motion a ‘process’ that will ensure ‘my’ demise. What ‘I’ do, voluntarily and willingly, is to press the button – which is to acquiesce – which precipitates an oft-times alarming but always thrilling momentum that will result in ‘my’ inevitable self-immolation. The acquiescing is that one thus dedicates oneself to being here as the universe’s experience of itself now ... it is the unreserved !YES! to being alive as this flesh and blood body. Peace-on-earth is the inevitable result of such devotion because it is already here ... it is always here now. ‘I’ and/or ‘me’ was merely standing in the way of the always already existing perfect purity from becoming apparent by sitting back and moaning and groaning about the inequity of it all (as epitomised in ‘I didn’t ask to be born’). How can one be forever sticking one’s toe in and testing out the waters and yet expect to be able to look at oneself in the mirror each morning with dignity.

The act of initiating this ‘process’ – acquiescence – is to embrace death. Richard, List B, No 39, 16.11.1999

To begin to experience embracing death is exquisitely delicious like an orgasm.

A death sought after, because of frustration with being here, can only lead to an Altered State of Consciousness because a strong negative feeling can only produce a strong good feeling as a chemical balancing act. A similar balancing act happened when my frustration with real life had lead me to fall in love with a spiritual master twenty years ago – I was desperate to escape the ‘real’ world, eager to seek a feel-good recipe to get out of ‘real’ life.

Self-immolation is different in quality, a more and more dispassionate, yet utterly sensate and thrilling experience. In the process of experientially understanding my tender and savage instinctual passions in operation they lose their grip, fire and reality ... and finally their credibility, until I simply observe a process of chemicals rising and subsiding.

What a marvel is the human brain! Vineeto, The Actual Freedom Trust Mailing List, Alan, 21.5.2000

As you can see it was me who observes ‘chemicals rising and subsiding’ when they express themselves as ‘my tender and savage instinctual passions’.

As for Richard – here is a story he recently related to No 32, which might throw some light on the hormone adrenalin in someone actually free from the human condition –

Richard: A classic example of this occurred whilst strolling along a country lane one fine morning with the sunlight dancing its magic on the glistening dew-drops suspended from the greenery everywhere; these eyes are delighting in the profusion of colour and texture and form as the panorama unfolds; these ears are revelling in the cadence of tones as their resonance and timbre fills the air; these nostrils are rejoicing in the abundance of aromas and scents drifting fragrantly all about; this skin is savouring the touch, the caress, of the early springtime ambience; this mind, other than the sheer enjoyment and appreciation of being alive as this flesh and blood body, is ambling along in neutral – there is no thought at all and conscious alertness is null and void – when all-of-a-sudden the easy gait has ceased happening.

These eyes instantly shift from admiring the dun-coloured cows in a field nearby and are looking downward to the front and see the green and black snake, coiling up on the road in readiness to act, which had not only occasioned the abrupt halt but, it is discovered, had initiated a rapid step backwards ... an instinctive response which, had the instinctual passions that are the identity been in situ, could very well have triggered off freeze-fight-flee chemicals.

There is no perturbation whatsoever (no wide-eyed staring, no increase in heart-beat, no rapid breathing, no adrenaline-tensed muscle tone, no sweaty palms, no blood draining from the face, no dry mouth, no cortisol-induced heightened awareness, and so on) as with the complete absence of the rudimentary animal ‘self’ in the primordial brain the limbic system in general, and the amygdala in particular, have been free to do their job – the oh-so-vital startle response – both efficaciously and cleanly. Richard to No 32 (25), 16.2.2003

I don’t know for a fact if for Richard ‘the sensory input still triggers chemicals’ or not – apparently in the above story there was a startle response upon seeing the snake that was sufficient to trigger the necessary life-saving response without any emotional reaction or any physical symptoms of an emotional reaction.

As is demonstrated in the diagrams of the The Actual Freedom Trust Library, it is the psychological ‘self’ in the neo-cortex and the instinctual ‘self’, which automatically triggers the Amygdala’s response, that is of concern for an actualist. What ‘I’ need to do is instigate a continuous process of unbiased attentiveness and this process itself will incrementally diminish the overarching influence of my ‘self’ on the sensate and reflective processes in the brain and then the output of chemicals takes care of itself. Some chemicals will still be operating, while others will cease to be produced.

While I am idly curious about the exact procedures that happen in my brain when I think, feel, act or when my mind is in neutral, neuro-science is still in its infancy and furthermore is considering our instinctual programming as an unchangeable given. For me as an actualist it is sufficient to know that ‘the instinctual passions that are the identity’ are the focus of my ongoing observation and investigation. After all it is ‘I’, as an identity, that needs to ‘self’-immolate in order for this body to become actually free from the human condition.

RESPONDENT: If I may ask you a question, pertaining to diet; is not an actualist supposed to be harmless, but eating meat won’t he still be participating in harmfulness? I say this because of my background, particularly with animals ... for example, I know of a parrot which expresses pain linguistically; and I’ve always been fond of ‘Leonardo DaVinci’ and ‘Socrates’ who both were, to my knowledge, vegetarians.

VINEETO: When I watch the various reports, travel logs and news clippings on television, I am always surprised how most human beings care much more about animals than they care about their fellow human beings. An enormous amount of money is spent studying and protecting an ever increasing number of so-called endangered species of animals in all parts of the world whereas in other parts of the world human beings don’t have enough to eat to survive the next week.

I have been a vegetarian for half of my life for spiritual reasons – I believed that eating meat would pollute my soul with the karma of ‘innocent’ animals. In hindsight, I regard this belief as providing an easy pretext to feel harmless by sparing animals while ignoring the difficult task of tackling the malice I was feeling, and the harm I was doing, towards my fellow human beings. My choosing to take the moral high ground of being a vegetarian did not make me harmless at all – I was still quarrelling in my relationships, I was at times mean and competitive, arrogant and spiteful, aggressive and argumentative. I enjoyed nasty gossip, I took advantage of others for my own gain, I enjoyed power over others, I was raged by jealousy – in short, like everyone else, I nourished malice in my bosom.

As for choosing what to eat – when you look at life on this planet, every living thing is feeding on other living things, be it bacteria, fungi, plants, insects, birds, reptiles or mammals. The very basis of the sustenance of life on this planet is that life feeds life – it is the way it is and there is nothing anyone can do about it. What I can do as a human being, however, is address myself to the task of being actually harmless towards my fellow human beings – not molluscs, fish, chickens, cows, pigs, kangaroos … or fungi and plant life for that matter.

If you are interested, here are two links to Richard’s conversations on this topic.

RESPONDENT: Do you mean that since one’s sense of self is totally absent there is no possibility of any planning for the future in this state? (the planning entity gone)?

VINEETO: Good, you are taking up the investigation of what this ‘life without self’ means.

It is not that I don’t plan when I need to – for earning money, or going shopping – but the feeling of worrying is gone, planning is simply a practical and delightful activity of my brain. So most planning does not happen, it has become redundant when the fear about the future disappeared.

RESPONDENT: Also, do you feel like the body is doing something and there is no entity controlling, censoring your actions?

VINEETO: With the body it is curious – the difference for me becomes most obvious in sex. The pleasures of the senses lead me on to the next movement or holding still or shifting position or pace – and there is neither a controller nor an examiner in the head, supervising the event. In the beginning it was quite uncanny and I went back into control and then out from control many times, until I dared to just be the senses. When there is no sorrow or malice nor any sex-drive happening, there is no need for a controller – nothing can go wrong. Further, there is always awareness about what I am doing, so there is no danger that I could be hurting Peter or myself.

*

RESPONDENT: As a side note, according to Richard’s understanding of the egoless state of being, there is no imagination possible in an egoless state because one is totally busy living the life as it is happening moment by moment. As a consequence, there might be no concern about the future. If there is a total dis-concern for the future and one is living – as the body – in the world inhabited by other people, will not the physical safety be in danger? Or is the very idea of ‘danger’ emotionally driven and even when a dangerous situation occurs, the body will be busy living it and hence there will be no hard feelings against the situation.

VINEETO: (...) My ‘concern about the future’ goes as far as covering the basic necessities for my physical survival – a place to live, spending money, clothes, food and obeying the law of the land. For work I found it sensible to keep a car, so I take care that it is registered, insured and running well. Neither a fearful nor hopeful imagination about the future nor feelings, beliefs, morals, values and instinctual passions interfere with this simple and solely practical ‘concern about the future’ and life is easy and carefree.

As far as ‘the world inhabited by other people’ is concerned – there are some practical safety measures to be considered. When appropriate, I will keep my mouth shut and not talk about Actual Freedom, because people seem to get really upset when their dearly held beliefs are questioned. The Internet for instance, is a much safer place to have a conversation about Actual Freedom. But most of what is considered ‘danger’ is, in fact, merely emotionally perceive and disappears with the thorough investigation of one’s emotions, feelings and instinctual passions – the actual world is an imminently safe place to be.

RESPONDENT: Another side note: in the ego-less state there might be no planning and ‘control’ executed by the ‘I’ but it might nevertheless happen because of the brain’s instinct (??) of the body-preservation? Or is the instinct of the prolongation of the life also gone in the ego-less state and one is not concerned when death approaches?

VINEETO: I don’t know and I don’t really care. ‘Body-preservation’ without the instincts is none of ‘my’ business because ‘I’ won’t be here anymore...

Once the ‘self’ is as weakened as it is now, I am simply doing what is happening. ‘I’ am not needed to keep this body alive, on the contrary, ‘I’ had been continuously interfering with my physical well-being by worrying and fighting, dieting and indulging, being stressed or depressed, fearful or driven. My health and well being are now better than ever, I have stopped worrying about vitamins or minerals, starch or protein, vegetarianism or health-dieting, natural or homeopathic medicine long ago. Also I take it that the medical technology in this country is so advanced as to give me a good chance of staying healthy as long as possible ... and when my time is over I can surely say that I had had a perfect life, every day, 24 hrs a day, for years and years and years.

With the ‘self’ the fear of death also dies. Once ‘I’ am gone there won’t be anybody left to be afraid of death. Of course I can still jump out of the way of an approaching car or an attacking dog. Intelligence and apperceptive awareness together with the physical startle-response are enough to keep this body alive as long as is possible. It is the psychological and psychic fear of death that casts shadows of fear and doubt into our lives and prevents us from experiencing the safety, magnificence and abundant perfection of the actual physical universe.

So, don’t let your doubts and fears take over and stop you from investigating your psyche – there is much magic to be discovered.

PS: I found a little quote from Richard that might give you further encouragement ...

Co-Respondent: The strong survive and the weak die. That is the law of the jungle.

Richard: Not so ... it is the fittest that survive: ‘survival of the fittest’ does not necessarily mean (as it is popularly misunderstood) that ‘the strong’ (most muscular) always survive. It means ‘the most fitted to the ever-changing environment’ (those who adapt) get to pass on their genes. If the most muscular are too dumb to twig to this very pertinent fact they will slowly disappear of the face of the planet over the countless millions of years that it is going to take via the trial and error process of blind nature. One can speed up this tedious natural process in one’s own lifetime and become free ... now. Richard, List B, No. 21, 29.5.2000

RESPONDENT: In fact, if you spent 10-20 years with Osho and/or eastern religions and you missed the bottom-line, which is no different from what Richard is saying, don’t blame Osho or eastern religion or any other religion. But blame yourself that you missed it!!

VINEETO: I spent 17 years with Osho, I listened to almost every of his discourses and I thoroughly and intensely tried to make sense of what he was saying and apply it to my life. I did a lot of therapy and meditation groups to deepen my understanding. But after 17 years I was not happier that when I had started, I still had all my emotions intact, meaning, they would pop up once in a while and give me a hard time. And none of my friends had ‘got it’ either. I cannot see where I missed the bottom-line, because the bottom-line was meditation. The very bottom-line was transcending this world, including all the senses, and rise into ‘Consciousness’ where you are detached from everything that is happening to you or other people – including the wars, rapes and murders. The bottom line is ‘you are not the body, but eternal Consciousness’, and thus we were all trying to do the impossible – meditate and still live in the marketplace, be happy and transcend it all, ‘have’ a body and not be in it.

Once I stopped blaming myself for the failure of those unsuccessful years, which had not brought me closer to the purity and happiness I was looking for, I was shocked when I started to see the vastness of the spiritual plot, that traps people in their misery. Alan put it very well when he said:

[Alan]: ‘because [the gurus] have not eliminated the Human Condition in themselves and they continue to perpetuate the misery, sorrow and malice, while telling all and sundry they are the embodiment of peace on earth.’ Alan to The Actual Freedom Trust Mailing List, 8.1.1999

Maybe you want to consider for yourself that it is not your fault that you missed it – unless you got it? – and start to question the revered teachings, so insidious instilled in all of us. In the beginning it is hard to see the forest for all the trees, but it is well worth a turn-around, in fact 180 degrees in the opposite direction of what Osho and the Eastern religions are trying to sell us.

*

RESPONDENT: There is an undercurrent of fear/sadness still there. I am going against it head on two ways: first, going to the daily life situations in which I would have dreaded to go into, 3-5 years ago, and apprehensive of going for them about 1-2 years ago. Second, keeping my eyes open to look for causes which brought this fear in the first place.

VINEETO: This is how I started to tackle fear after I had understood that fear is the very substance of ‘me’, the ‘self’:

Each time I encountered fear, I would do the reality-check, that is, check out the actual dangers of the situation. ‘What is the worst that can happen’? was always a good question. And in discovering that most fears are only in my head – or guts – and had nothing to do with actual danger, I could go ahead and face them. The other part of the approach was to find out the cause of that fear. Since my favourite pet-excuse, childhood traumas, had proven to be a myth, I started to look for other reasons, closer to here and now. What I mainly found were beliefs that formed my identity – beliefs, when threatened in certain situations, caused the same reaction in me as if I was physically threatened. The ‘self’ doesn’t distinguish between an imaginary danger to the identity and an actual danger to the body. As such, a threat to one’s beliefs is as passionately felt as a threat to one’s life.

Then the real discovery started. By investigating and dismantling one belief after another, this identity became thinner and thinner, fewer situations would threaten the existence of the ‘self’. I had dismantled so many beliefs myself that my fear of people, who could question my beliefs, diminished considerably. And whenever such a fear arose, there was something for me to discover, there was another cause for fear to be removed. After the first successes started to show, I more and more enjoyed the game – finally I had a method that worked, and I could do it all by myself. Neither Guru nor therapist needed.

*

RESPONDENT: My need-for-love is, I think, based on need to be nurtured at the age of 3 years and younger. Since I have no memory before the age of 3 years, it especially makes it hard. I am not sure what to do. Until recently I used to think that to solve these kinds of problems, eg. need-for-love in me, I need to know their source/origin, but may be there are other ways to solve them too. I can’t say much at present as I am in the middle of it and trying to get rid of need-for-love and fear associated with the similar causes. I agree with you, however, that this need-for-love is quite insidious

VINEETO: As I said before, in my experience, working out childhood or past-life situations is a dead-end road, in that one will never get to the bottom of all the real or imagined hurts, resentments, exasperations or fears. The same is the case for the need-for-love. It is part of the instinctual package that we are born with. Just now, I watched a film-report made by the famous Jane Goodall, where a 6 year old monkey died of grief three weeks after his mother was killed. He couldn’t survive, missing his source for ‘love’ and care. Everybody, whatever childhood they had, is troubled by their need for love, troubled by their instincts, inflicted with the Human Condition.

Only by examining my beliefs supporting love as well as my (imagined) fears of what would happen if I wasn’t loved, could I dismantle this instinct for being loved, which is common to all human beings. In the actual world there is neither love nor need for love. I-as-this-body know perfectly well how to physically survive, how to enjoy being alive and, without the burden of separation and loneliness that the presence of the ‘self’ inevitably produces, simply delight in experiencing the universe around me.

It is the ‘self’ that is the culprit – ego and soul combined. This genetically inherited and collectively reinforced passionate imagination of a separate self in each human being is responsible for every single feeling and act of sorrow and malice on this planet.

And now it is possible to get rid of it, to become free from the Human Condition. And isn’t it a worthy and thrilling adventure to devote one’s life to! I immensely enjoy the virtual freedom that I have already gained from investigating into the Human Condition.

RESPONDENT: Could this PCE that is used as the goal be just a state brought on by delusion of some spiritual teachings including Richard’s? I.e. I want it so I’ll invent it.

VINEETO: Once you have experienced a PCE you don’t have to ask that question. A PCE is characterized by the – temporary – complete absence of any ‘self’ whatsoever, including your faculty of feeling and imagination. You can’t invent the actual world – it is already here. A tree is a tree, I can’t invent it. I am this flesh and blood body, and it is obvious that I can perfectly live without a ‘self’. After feeling and imagining has ceased completely, the actual world becomes apparent. A bit like taking one’s grey and rose-coloured glasses off and seeing the world for the first time. One experiences perfection and purity, no separation from the things and people around, but neither love nor bliss are felt as in the feeling-induced spiritual experiences.

RESPONDENT: But it is still a bit tricky to hear you referring to ‘I’ even after all this ‘self’ annihilation you’ve been through. Maybe our language simply cannot convey the essence of what you are really saying...but I sure ‘sense’ the legitimacy of it.

Richard: ‘There is a generally accepted convention around the world that, when referring to the psychological or psychic entity within the body, small quotes are used. To wit: ‘I’, ‘me’, ‘my’. When wishing to refer to this flesh and blood body bereft of this entity, it is convenient to revert to the first person pronoun: I, my, me ... or even more impersonally ... one.’ Richard, List B, No 12, 6.3.1998

And in another conversation:

Co-Respondent: Yes there are many subtle misconceptions concerning the concept of ‘me’, one of them is that we can get away with all the problems by calling ourselves a ‘flesh and blood body’.

Richard: ‘No, not at all. One can not ‘get away with all the problems by calling ourselves a ‘flesh and blood body’. This physical universe, being perfect and pristine, has so arranged itself that nobody can get away with anything. If one is at all dishonest – as in intellectually unscrupulous – about ferreting out anything detrimental to one’s salubrity, that aspect of one’s personality that one has conveniently overlooked has the charming habit of sneaking up behind one and tapping one firmly behind the knees. If one is at all desirous of living a blameless and carefree life, one can not fudge a single issue.

Thus, to merely call oneself a ‘flesh and blood body’ achieves nothing – unless one is so stupefied as to be so easily fooled by one’s own mendacity. Only when both the ego and the soul are extinct is this appellation veritable ... and the results of doing so are deliciously lived out in one’s daily life.’ Richard, List B, No 20, 14.2.1998

Peter has explained it quite well in our library. There are three I’s’, the normal I, the spiritual I and the actual I. So even when you eliminate the normal and the spiritual I or ‘self’, there is still this flesh and blood body that one needs to refer to. I is the shortest and most common way to name it.

VINEETO: I don’t see how [anger passing away] can be ‘the result of good old Vipassana’, where you were ‘the witness watching the anger passing away’, if you say that at the same time you ‘know that [’you’ are] not different from anger’. Either you know that ‘you’ are the anger, that ‘you’ are the emotion, which is not what is taught in Vipassana – or you practice Vipassana and merely witness the anger passing away until it arises next time. But that does not eliminate the emotion, as ‘you’ remain intact, and at the most ‘you’ only transcend the emotion.

To really grasp the fact that ‘you’ are emotions and emotions are ‘you’ results in you being willing and eager to investigate into the deeper layers of ‘you’ to eliminate the very cause of anger arising in the first place. To really face the fact that ‘you’, and only ‘you’, are the cause and reason of anger arising – as well as all the other emotions – is the first and essential step to do something about this emotion rather than merely witness it. The acknowledgment of the fact that the Human Condition in you is preventing you from being happy and harmless creates the burning intent and necessary guts to investigate further into the very substance of ‘who you think you are’ and ‘who you feel you are’. That’s when common sense starts to come to fruition.

RESPONDENT: I am now seeing Vipassana in a different light. It is very helpful in putting me at ‘this’ moment ‘here’ and it also puts me back to this physical body. Vipassana is not limited to watching of breathing only. It can be extended to watching any sensation in the body. In the beginning, of course there is a watcher, but I was told that gradually watcher goes away and there is only watching happening. I have, though, no personal experience of the watcher going away. But I could do away with emotions like anger with the help of extended Vipassana where apart from watching you also understand anger. The term ‘watching’ is used to be non-judgmental. That means I did not try to fight with anger, In fact I did not even wished that it should go away, but that doesn’t stops me from investigating. And just by understanding it and understanding the reason behind it, it goes away. It becomes foolish to get angry. That’s why I said it gives rise to common sense. As I have said earlier I did not try this method for all the emotions. Perhaps I never thought of listing down all the emotions and worked on them one by one.

VINEETO: Vipassana, according to its ‘home-place’, Theravada Buddhism, is practiced so that

[Mahasi Sayadaw]: ‘the view of self will then be totally removed and security will be finally gained against the danger of rebirth in the realms of the hells, animals and petas. In this respect, the exercise is simply to note or observe the existing elements in every act of seeing. It should be noted as ‘seeing, seeing’ on every occasion of seeing. ... If not, based on this act of seeing there will arise sakkaya-ditthi, which will view it in the form of a person or as belonging to a person, and as being permanent, pleasurable, and self. This will arouse the defilements of craving and attachment, which will in turn prompt deeds, and the deeds will bring forth rebirth in a new existence.’ from: ‘Satipatthana Vipassana, Insight through Mindfulness’ by The Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw

What you call extended Vipassana is still Buddhism with its understanding that who you really are is your ‘consciousness’, ie the ‘watcher’ as distinct from body and senses and from the bad emotions and thoughts, which then are merely ‘seen’ or ‘observed’. Upon enlightenment, as you were told, the ‘watcher [is] going away’, but only because you then dissolve into being ‘one with everything’.

Anger passes away, not because you ‘understand the reason behind’ it but because you become the watcher and remove yourself from your anger. In the same way you can remove yourself from any feeling or emotion without ever having to investigate into the substance of your very ‘self’. To really face the fact that ‘you’, and only ‘you’, are the cause and reason of anger arising – as well as all the other emotions – is the first and essential step to do something about this emotion instead of merely witnessing it.

Further, Buddhism, and therefore Vipassana, is clearly based on the understanding that

[quote]: ‘one usually experiences many painful sensations in the body, such as tiredness, heat, aching, and at the time of noting these sensations, one generally feels that this body is a collection of sufferings. This is also insight into suffering.’ from: ‘Satipatthana Vipassana, Insight through Mindfulness’ by The Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw

You see, their aim is to ‘get out of the body’ and ‘into consciousness’, because the ‘body is a collection of suffering’. Similarly, you ‘get out of anger’. But ‘you’ remain intact. That’s why anger arises again. Looking back I can see that at some point early in my relationship with Peter I made the decision not to let emotions come in the road between us and prevent a peaceful living together. Peace was the priority and for that I was ready to sacrifice everything – I was even ready to change, radically, completely, drastically.

RESPONDENT: I am sharing it also with the community, I work as a massage therapist in an upper class health spa and in my own place. Working with the human conditioning in the physical manifestations is one good possibility to support another to become free.

First supporting the temporary release of the manifestations, then seeing the underlying mental conditioning, understanding and with the magic of intent to let go of the conditioning itself.

VINEETO: I am curious about your understanding of the word ‘conditioning’. I have come to see conditioning as the first layer to be removed, including all the personal, social and collective input that is fed into all of us since birth. But conditioning is not everything. We are all born with a set of survival instincts that make us susceptible to and heavily dependant on the moral conditioning we receive. When the restricting shield of society’s ethics and morals breaks down, the survival instincts of fear and aggression, nurture and desire are as raw as you can observe them in animals. CNN with their daily News gives ample testimony of the various manifestations of those instincts in action. Unless we discover those instinctual passions in ourselves and start to eliminate them, the ‘self’ will continue to exist and create havoc in one cunning way or another. The difference between the path to actual freedom from the Human Condition and any spiritual or psychological ‘solutions’ is that Actual Freedom gives you a method to get rid of the root cause of the problem – ‘me’ in whatever form.

RESPONDENT: (...) er-ef is the name of that organization. Ironically it means Esoteric Research and Education Foundation, it was first formed 15 years ago and the present name is Health Realization Training Hawaii. You can also replace Health with Freedom.

VINEETO: ‘RF’ i.e. ‘remove formatting’ was rather a joke from my side, because I see the path to actual freedom as the removal of the programming of the brain. Peter jokingly called it ‘amygdala modification’, the successive and finally irreversible modification of the primitive brain into a mere warning organ without any emotional or chemical-hormonal power to interfere. Then, and only then, can one’s innate intelligence and sensate experiencing be freed to take on the job that it is now capable of – being the universe experiencing itself as a sensate and reflective human being.

Health is a curious topic. In my experience a major percentage of un-wellness and disease originated in and was perpetuated by my emotions and imaginations, and has subsequently disappeared in the process of eliminating those very emotions and imaginations. The remaining plainly physical problems are easily dealt with in a sensible way, once the fear that has fuelled most ailments, has disappeared. Since I started on the journey to eliminate my ‘self’ I have given up all beliefs in alternative medicine, neurotic ‘health-diets’, divinations and new age spiritual healing – they did not even touch the root cause of my problem – ‘me’, the venerated soul and the precious ego. Today I can say that the best I did for my health was to successively remove the very cause of unwell-ness, my feelings, my emotions, my beliefs, my instincts, my very sense of ‘being’.

RESPONDENT:

7. while old age and ill-health can be emotionally traumatic for all concerned we live in a very medically advanced society especially in terms of our care of the elderly.

VINEETO: Yes, ‘we live in a very medically advanced society’. Therefore it is very well possible to have an old age that is as pleasant and as comfortable as one’s middle age. One can also have an old age that is as emotionally traumatic as one’s middle age unless one does something about it, and this will have the added advantage that one then won’t be an emotional burden to one’s children!

Strangely enough I have hardly met anyone who was interested in changing his or her painful, sorrowful or traumatic situation for a happy and harmless life, whatever the age or gender. Emotional traumas are for those who like to keep their emotions and their identity. But, in fact, there is no need to have an emotional trauma at all, provided one is ready to give them up and willing to investigate into the source of one’s feelings and emotions.

Eliminating one’s identity and leaving Humanity behind has the great advantage that one does not need to suffer with the sufferers and/or rescue the victims of self-imposed suffering. In my experience, most people want sympathy and com-passion (the word means literally – company in suffering), but nobody is interested in practical methods to bring about actual change – so any attempt to rescue others or offer advice is only like pissing in the wind – you get wet for trying.

But it is always good fun to tell my story...

RESPONDENT: Have you been able to localize this self through your indoctrination into Peter/Richard’s way of looking at life? If so, where does it end and the ‘other’ begin?

VINEETO: I don’t know what you mean by ‘the other’. Once I am outside of the self, there is no ‘other’, just this body and brain functioning perfectly well and experiencing the world around me intimately, sensuously, fully alive and in appreciation of my surroundings. While I am writing to you, Peter is clicking away on his keyboard, the computer is humming quietly, the night still and magical with the full-moon high in the sky. My fingers find their way from typing letters to making words, my body still tingling from sex.

Life is wonderfully easy without the burden of the ‘self’. It was never the body or the senses or the brain that were the culprit, it has always been the ‘self’ that corrupts both thoughts and senses. This ‘self ’is responsible for all the misery on the planet, for all the wars, tortures, murders, rapes, poverty, greed, corruption and hypocrisy. By dismantling and extinguishing it bit by bit I am able to live here, now, in this actual physical and sensually experience-able world. I don’t need to escape into a fantasy-place where I imagine that the ‘self’ does not exist. I came to see the fantasy-world of enlightenment as a big, big fairy-land and quite some people have been deluded into it, although rarely anybody succeeds in staying permanently deluded. A Buddhist pundit calculated that 0.0001% of seekers ever reach their ultimate goal. But in the end enlightenment is only an Altered State of Consciousness, a construct of passionate imagination and a delusion of grandeur.

I did experience this enlightened ‘Self’ myself – it is called having a Satori, I guess – and can observe it in detail from an outsider’s standpoint – seeing the grand belief and the overwhelming emotions of ‘wisdom’ and Divine Compassion – and I know the qualitative difference when there is no self at all in operation. All Enlightened Ones still have an identity; it is called ‘I am God’ or ‘I am one with God’. It is nevertheless an identity, very grand and ‘holy’, universal in its feeling but still with one at its core who claims to be ‘one with the Divine’. The Enlightened Ones loose their ego but safely keep their soul, their identity merely shifts from the head to the heart, leaving all the animal-instincts unquestioned.

VINEETO to List C: The dream of the eternal, undying soul spoils the game of living now as the only moment of being alive. That’s where Richard shocked my out of my socks: He proposed that there is no life after death. You die when you die, full stop, basta, finito, extinct.

‘Well, yes, maybe’, I thought, ‘nobody knows, and it could be that he might be right. But I will only know when I die ..’ (one can see the postponement at work!). I did not want to let the fact come close enough to admit that I have only a very limited life-span left – I don’t know how long it will be.

When I asked Richard why he is so confidently positive about no life after death, he replied: ‘Because there is nobody and nothing in me that could live on, I am only this flesh and blood body, there is no soul, no entity inside this body which could live on.’ That statement really hit. Here was a man, without imagination, without emotions, living happily in everyday life, as ordinary as anybody, and he says there exists no entity in him which survives! For me, that meant, that everybody else, including me, imagines their soul, imagines an inner world, imagines life-after-death, imagines the Divine and keeps feelings alive by feeding them with imagination.

But if one single man can live happily and harmlessly outside of imagination, if he can live without love and emotion, then our emotions and soul are not facts but products of our fertile collective imagination and instinctual programming. Then, the concepts of ‘divine energy’, ‘eternal soul’, ‘Existence looking after us’, etc, are suddenly understood as concepts, built and refined over the centuries to keep the fear of death at bay, to reconcile us with the awareness of the terrifying fact of approaching death.

If a single man has rid himself of all beliefs, and of the very act of believing, those beliefs are exposed for what they are – non-factual.

Recognizing this fact was a shock and it was not easy to look the fear of death in the face, but it brought me here. Not knowing if I am alive tomorrow, I can only live this moment – there is, as a fact, no afterlife. If I don’t like life now, I am the only one who can change it. To say, as I often heard quoted, that ‘everything is perfect as it is’ or, ‘one gets on with life and life will take care’ are just more disguises for the same postponement.

RESPONDENT: I guess that you assume that the intellect or common sense is generated by biochemical processes within the body?

VINEETO: How else? Do you assume there is a Divine Source that puts intelligent thoughts into our brains? Intelligence is part of the normal functioning of the brain. The problem is, that this innate intelligence, which humans have applied to create, for instance, all the technological progress, is distorted by the malice and sorrow of the Human Condition. With emotions and feelings operating one cannot think clearly, considerably and benevolently, everybody experienced this. Beliefs and concepts stifle intelligence because we prefer to believe and trust an authority rather than investigating facts for ourselves. Fear and the resulting self-centredness are the main hindrances for common sense.

RESPONDENT: When I studied psychology some years ago, for only about three months because it’s really dry stuff, the main psychology course was taught by a professor who didn’t believe in the psyche. The book he warmly recommended to us was titled ‘Der Geist Fiel Nicht Vom Himmel’ (The Spirit or Psyche didn’t Fall from Heaven). The professor surely was a man of common sense, wasn’t he. He really believed that the Psyche is created by biochemistry of the body. It was a socialist university. In Louvain, at a catholic university, the psychology professor believed a soul or psyche exists, of course. Socialists tend to be materialistic, don’t they, maybe because of their long struggle against the church-supported governments, and they tend to be physical because of belonging to the working class, using their body a lot.

VINEETO: What do you want to prove by giving me the example of two professors believing opposite theories? But then, what were your conclusions of their teaching? What facts did they give you, what were your investigations? You are presenting opposite beliefs, not facts.

As I see it, psychology in itself is based on one assumption after the other, and the different schools are all unable to produce valid empirical facts to prove their theories. This is because psychology itself – I have studied it for four years – is trying to conceptualise, understand and change human emotions and behaviour. Behaviour is one thing, one can produce some empirical data on behaviour. But Sigmund Freud, Alfred Adler, Carl Gustav Jung, Erich Fromm and others were trying to conceptualise something that is part of the collective psychic construct, produced in the head (or heart), feed by the instinctual passions of fear, aggression, nurture and desire. From within the Human Condition, influenced by their current concepts, beliefs, upbringing or environment the particular psychologist is as trapped in his belief system as are his clients. Psychology tries to produce maps for the psychic world, whereas the fact is that the psychic world is a huge construct of imagination and instincts, and can be eliminated entirely (both ego and soul).

Once you have stepped out of the real world of emotions and beliefs into the actual world, with the ‘self’ in temporary abeyance as in a pure consciousness experience, you can see the root cause of human emotions and beliefs very clearly. No psychology needed.

VINEETO: ...perfection in humans is possible.

RESPONDENT: Whatever is, is perfect. It cannot be any other way. But there can be more.

VINEETO: One of those insidious spiritual beliefs. If you look around in the world, human beings are anything else but perfect. Murders, rapes, domestic violence, religious and tribal wars, child abuse and suicides tell enough of a story. This belief that everything is perfect is one of the reasons why people think they don’t have to change, just wait for the grace of god or the master, or the universe to miraculously remove them from this miserable realm of the body. But then you have to deny the body, all its pleasures, its intelligence, its physical senses. Then, the only place you can have peace is in some imaginary world of the psyche.

Actual freedom means living in this physical world, as this physical body with its marvellous intelligence. But it also means living without a psyche, without affective qualities – human or divine, without instincts, without imagination, without any sense of self or Self, ego, soul and idea of who you are. Actual freedom is to discover what you are – a flesh-and-blood body, one of 5.8 billion on the planet – completely ordinary with only one difference: one is completely harmless and as such a non-contributor to malice, and one is completely happy and a such a non-contributor to sorrow.

*

VINEETO to No 8: Isn’t it a wonderful thing to discover a nasty trick of this very cunning entity, and by discovering it disentangle oneself of its tentacles? You move from not objecting to – to agreeing with – to beginning to investigate into – to becoming thrilled and finally obsessed with the journey into your psyche – slowly freeing yourself of the stranglehold the Human Condition has on us!

RESPONDENT: Yes, Vineeto, you are right. What you describe here is a really slow and arduous journey just to find out in the end that the psyche as such is nothing but a mind full of nasty tricks. Why move so slow when you can just step right out of the whole thing?

To be the watcher, the witness is to be out of the mind.

VINEETO: So is that why you are on the spiritual path – it looks like a short-cut? The way you described the whole process is like a real short-cut, shifting one’s identity from the nasty tricks to the wonderful identity of being the removed watcher.

It reminds me of another instant solution that is offered now-a-days: if people have trouble finding a suitable girl-friend, then she is not willing to have as much sex as the man wants, then there is daily quarrel from living together, then the unresolved question of having children or not, then the money spent on her etc etc. So, the instant solution – why not step out of the whole relationship trouble, be the watcher, get a blue movie and have virtual pleasure instead? Much quicker, much cheaper and discard-able as well!

With the watcher, the witness, you not dis-identify from the mind, but also from the body and thus from the actual world. You go into a fantasy world where you are ‘one with the universe’, living in perfect love and bliss, imagining yourself to be God or something similarly grand, in short, off the planet. Of course, it appeals, since the world where we find ourselves in is littered with sorrow, malice and anxieties. The spiritual solution is to just say, ‘this ‘body-mind’ is not me’ and you then you will be out of trouble.

But your body is not a projection on a screen that can be switched off. Pity, isn’t it? Your body needs food, a place to stay, money to be maintained, healthy to be well, it can be physically hurt by others and then feels pain. It is actual. Further, this body is inflicted with the Human Condition of malice and sorrow. Although these emotions, beliefs and instincts are all products of the imaginary ‘self’ (or ‘Self’), they are very real when experienced by yourself and others around you.

So, you say, one is imagining all this and it is not happening or it is an illusion, and further that you are only witnessing it from some inner world which cannot be talked about – but only felt.

I went in the opposite direction – I decided to clean up myself from this alien entity that is the root cause for all the experienced misery and suffering. Then I don’t need to go ‘somewhere else’, then I can be here on this abundantly verdant planet earth and delight in experiencing this physical universe as a sensate and reflective human being.

It is a different ballgame all together.

RESPONDENT: I assure you that I’m not talking about an eastern ideal or philosophy. The experience of the witness I’m describing is my current personal experience, for me it is a fact! If you are experiencing some other personality in this space of being that you call witnessing, as far as I’m concerned you are not just witnessing!

VINEETO: I don’t doubt your personal experience – but, ‘who’ is witnessing? And who told you to develop that witness in the first place? ‘Who’ is so firmly convinced about this personal experience? ‘Who’ is this witnessing entity inside of you? What would happen if this witnessing entity stopped ‘being’ the witness? ‘What’ would be left?

When bare awareness happens, there is no entity that can identify itself as ‘being one with everything’, ‘being love’, ‘being’ anything at all. With bare awareness you are this flesh and blood body only, your eyes seeing, your ears hearing... – no love, no bliss, no oneness with anything.

RESPONDENT: There is no personality in this space what so ever. There is no me in this space! There is just witnessing! Feelings are nothing more than subtle thoughts, and I’m not talking to you about thoughts, I’m talking to you about what I experience when there are no thoughts! There is no female or male in witnessing, just being!

VINEETO: ‘Just being’ is still an identity. It is the most subtle of all identities that the ‘self’ can produce, and yet it is – on honest investigation – distinguishable from this flesh and blood body, it is a ‘something’ or ‘someone’ inside your physical body, it is a passionate imagination.

RESPONDENT: I have taken the time to read some of your long winded postings, and as far as I can see you are talking about spaces of the mind that you are experiencing, whether that be body mind spaces or pure mind spaces, and there is no difference really! Mind is mind! In witnessing, there is no-mind! I am in no way negating the intelligence of the mind, the mind is useful! I am saying there is being beyond it!

VINEETO: You can go beyond the beyond the beyond, and get even further away from the actual world, your identity just further removed from life, from your body, your senses and the perfection of this moment. The actual world is 180 degrees in the opposite direction from where you are searching, not ‘being beyond it’ at all. But the point of what I am saying is that this ‘magical, fairy tale-like world of perfection and purity’ doesn’t need to be believed to exist ... unlike the ‘Greater Reality’ ... which only exists because it is believed by all.